GWR Desperately short of units

[Class455]

Could take some 319's or Southern 377's surplus to requirements?

 

[D365]

Could take some 319's or Southern 377's surplus to requirements?

Don't know how that would help GWR as they will have plenty of 387s waiting to go. Are Southern giving up any 377s (other than a Southeastern swap if that's still going ahead)?

 

[Townsend Hook]

Could take some 319's or Southern 377's surplus to requirements?

GWR have an DMU shortage so give them EMUs? There's no shortage of 387s, and no more Turbos that can be released until more electrification has been commissioned.

 

[43096]

Don't know how that would help GWR as they will have plenty of 387s waiting to go. Are Southern giving up any 377s (other than a Southeastern swap if that's still going ahead)?

Exactly. Bombardier are well ahead of the game with 387 deliveries (22 on GWR property now); the issue is lack of knitting to run them under.

I do wish people would think ideas through before posting them...

 

[PHILIPE]

I assume that the 150 at least will be dropped off somewhere (Plymouth?) to form other services, along with one of the dogboxes possibly? Surely not 4-cars through to Newquay this early in the summer?

Could depend on what the remainder of the Diagrams are. Would there be a driver to shunt it out of the way ?

 

[Parallel]

Although short forms are spread over the whole of the GWR 'west' region frequently, it seems to be the Devon Metro that has suffered the most recently. These are often very busy services with only an hourly frequency on most of the routes so I can imagine things are a bit difficult down there at the moment!

 

[Rich McLean]

I assume that the 150 at least will be dropped off somewhere (Plymouth?) to form other services, along with one of the dogboxes possibly? Surely not 4-cars through to Newquay this early in the summer?

The 150 is detached at Par after running ECS from Truro and forms a Plymouth stopper. The pair of 153s go to Newquay all stops then return on an all stops back to Plymouth

 

[iantherev]

I assume that the 150 at least will be dropped off somewhere (Plymouth?) to form other services, along with one of the dogboxes possibly? Surely not 4-cars through to Newquay this early in the summer?

All 3 units were still bolted together when I passed them at Par late afternoon.

 

[D1009]

All 3 units were still bolted together when I passed them at Par late afternoon.

Isn't that the working that in previous years has been an HST from Paddington?

 

[iantherev]

Isn't that the working that in previous years has been an HST from Paddington?

Yes - 07:06 ex Paddington which now runs to Penzance.

 

[D1009]

Yes - 07:06 ex Paddington which now runs to Penzance.

So one would imagine it needs something more than a 2 car unit then?

 

[robbeech]

Whilst I appreciate you are talking more about multiple units I figured now and here would be a good time to ask what the rake of gwr mark 3's are doing at Derby. I only spotted them today, I guess they might have been there for years.

 

[fgwrich]

Whilst I appreciate you are talking more about multiple units I figured now and here would be a good time to ask what the rake of gwr mark 3's are doing at Derby. I only spotted them today, I guess they might have been there for years.

That's Set LA72 - up there for overhaul and repaint. Only left OOC on the 31th of May.

 

[Parallel]

GWR short of staff again today with some cancellations, including two of the Okehampton runs being cancelled (and ofcourse the other two being retimed due to speed restrictions.)

There's also short forms on the Devon Metro, to Weymouth and to Brighton today.

 

[1179_Clee2]

It is time that GWR and the people on this thread that support GWR understand that they are not the ONLY TOC in the country that are short of trains.
The Borders line in Scotland is ideal example of running short trains on a line that needs longer trains or more of them.
The South Trans Pennine (Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport VIA Sheffield) is another. Chiltern leased the 170's and it now has 14% LESS SEATS than it had. Three car trains are now run in the PEAK HOURS with 154 standard class seats, it used to have four car 170's with 216 standard class seats. TPE's passengers have put up with this for over a year and will have to wait another two before it runs six car trains.
The above are ONLY used as examples of other TOC's with similar problems.

 

[PHILIPE]

It is time that GWR and the people on this thread that support GWR understand that they are not the ONLY TOC in the country that are short of trains.
The Borders line in Scotland is ideal example of running short trains on a line that needs longer trains or more of them.
The South Trans Pennine (Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport VIA Sheffield) is another. Chiltern leased the 170's and it now has 14% LESS SEATS than it had. Three car trains are now run in the PEAK HOURS with 154 standard class seats, it used to have four car 170's with 216 standard class seats. TPE's passengers have put up with this for over a year and will have to wait another two before it runs six car trains.
The above are ONLY used as examples of other TOC's with similar problems.

ATW took over their franchise in 2003 on a no growth basis. There has been a 75% increase in passenger numbers since that time and, because they are tied into the franchise contract, are unable to source any more units so the daily theme of Twitter complaints relate to overcrowding. During that time some developments have occurred such as re-opening of the VOG and Ebbw Vale lines and DFT allocated units for these to the TOC. The Ebbw Vale allocations are for 2 Car trains but these have proved to have been insufficient but ATW have managed to do some juggling and managed to strengthen some services on the route at peak times. There is a LHCS in use but this was an initiative of the Welsh Government. The Franchise is due for renewal next year but the process of this is somewhat of a shambles but that is another story and well documented on the Forum, but when stock is replaced due to Pacers non-compliant etc., it seems to be replaced on a one for one basis and not taking into account the "backlog".

 

[Doctor Fegg]

ATW took over their franchise in 2003 on a no growth basis. There has been a 75% increase in passenger numbers since that time and, because they are tied into the franchise contract, are unable to source any more units.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, many franchises have sourced units over and above their franchise commitments, ever since the early days of privatisation, and including new-build. DfT has approved this as and when a convincing case has been made.

The current ATW franchise is one of the most profitable if not the single most. It is DB/Arriva's decision to continue with an undersized fleet. I hope this is taken into account at franchise renewal time and the franchise given to a better operator.

 

[1179_Clee2]

DfT has approved this as and when a convincing case has been made.

What happens when the DfT DON'T approve this when a convincing case has been made or when trains get removed mid franchise like TPE's 170's.
Everybody then blames the TOC when they need to blame the DfT.
It is not down to TOC's to finance DfT blunders.

 

[83G/84D]

Seems like that GWR had a train to run to Okehampton yesterday, however not enough traincrew to cover all workings with two return trips cancelled.

 

[WattWatt000]

I think theres more to the Okehampton issue. The Dartmoor railway not having the correct certifications for mainline operations being one of them.

 

[Deepgreen]

My North Downs line train this morning was a two car 165 (135) which is very unusual these days (and the first 'Dynamic lines'-liveried unit we have seen for ages, too), so a lack of stock appears to be affecting us as well.

As an aside, yesterday (Sunday) saw a four hour gap at Betchworth when a train was cancelled owing to a crewing problem (according to RTT)!

 

[Siemens Staines]

My North Downs line train this morning was a two car 165 (135) which is very unusual these days (and the first 'Dynamic lines'-liveried unit we have seen for ages, too), so a lack of stock appears to be affecting us as well.

It looks like there were several short forms in the Thames Valley this morning, although I think the Shalford was 3 vice 2 (but I have lost track as to whether that is booked 2 or 3 so quite possibly not a vice). The loss of 150001 can't have helped matters although I had presumed it would have been replaced by 165124 - but my assumptions are often incorrect!

07:04 Reading to Redhill due 08:30
08:33 Redhill to Reading due 09:51
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 07:54

07:21 Oxford to London Paddington due 08:59
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:55

07:21 London Paddington to Oxford due 08:19
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:56

07:36 Basingstoke to Reading due 08:00
08:08 Reading to Basingstoke due 08:33
08:36 Basingstoke to Reading due 09:00
09:05 Reading to Basingstoke due 09:30
09:36 Basingstoke to Reading due 10:00
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:11

07:33 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:06
08:42 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 09:22
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:57

 

[Deepgreen]

ATW took over their franchise in 2003 on a no growth basis. There has been a 75% increase in passenger numbers since that time and, because they are tied into the franchise contract, are unable to source any more units so the daily theme of Twitter complaints relate to overcrowding. During that time some developments have occurred such as re-opening of the VOG and Ebbw Vale lines and DFT allocated units for these to the TOC. The Ebbw Vale allocations are for 2 Car trains but these have proved to have been insufficient but ATW have managed to do some juggling and managed to strengthen some services on the route at peak times. There is a LHCS in use but this was an initiative of the Welsh Government. The Franchise is due for renewal next year but the process of this is somewhat of a shambles but that is another story and well documented on the Forum, but when stock is replaced due to Pacers non-compliant etc., it seems to be replaced on a one for one basis and not taking into account the "backlog".

"No growth" - really?! Who allowed this assumption to prevail at the time when it was patently obvious that growth had been strong and would continue to be so? Sounds like an incredibly naive assumption which has proved wildly inaccurate.

 

[Kite159]

"No growth" - really?! Who allowed this assumption to prevail at the time when it was patently obvious that growth had been strong and would continue to be so? Sounds like an incredibly naive assumption which has proved wildly inaccurate.

That would be the Strategic Rail Authority for you

Similar to the old Northern franchise, let on a "no growth" basis

 

[83G/84D]

I think theres more to the Okehampton issue. The Dartmoor railway not having the correct certifications for mainline operations being one of them.

There may be issues however unlike the previous weekend GWR did run some trains out there this Sunday, although not all of them for the reason stated.

 

[FGW_DID]

My North Downs line train this morning was a two car 165 (135) which is very unusual these days (and the first 'Dynamic lines'-liveried unit we have seen for ages, too), so a lack of stock appears to be affecting us as well.

As an aside, yesterday (Sunday) saw a four hour gap at Betchworth when a train was cancelled owing to a crewing problem (according to RTT)!

It looks like there were several short forms in the Thames Valley this morning, although I think the Shalford was 3 vice 2 (but I have lost track as to whether that is booked 2 or 3 so quite possibly not a vice). The loss of 150001 can't have helped matters although I had presumed it would have been replaced by 165124 - but my assumptions are often incorrect!

07:04 Reading to Redhill due 08:30
08:33 Redhill to Reading due 09:51
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 07:54

07:21 Oxford to London Paddington due 08:59
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:55

07:21 London Paddington to Oxford due 08:19
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:56

07:36 Basingstoke to Reading due 08:00
08:08 Reading to Basingstoke due 08:33
08:36 Basingstoke to Reading due 09:00
09:05 Reading to Basingstoke due 09:30
09:36 Basingstoke to Reading due 10:00
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:11

07:33 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:06
08:42 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 09:22
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Last Updated:12/06/2017 06:57

LTV not short of units per se, but yes 150001 being away probably hasn't helped and 165124 is still at the Marsh but should be heading back to Reading soon. (Both still on LTV books so impact our stop list)

Unfortunately as stated above there are more than the usual number of trains stopped this morning due to a number of various factors resulting in a number of shortforms/longforms and ultimately -1 in traffic.

No drivers booked for a couple of moves, one unit stuck at Old Oak, post tyre turning, 57 & 2x387 still at the TCD.
One unit is stopped after an attempted suicide inside the unit and therefore requires cleaning.
One unit came back as a failure and unfortunately couldnt be rectified in time for start of service.

 

[coppercapped]

"No growth" - really?! Who allowed this assumption to prevail at the time when it was patently obvious that growth had been strong and would continue to be so? Sounds like an incredibly naive assumption which has proved wildly inaccurate.

Remember your history before making such sweeping statements.

After the Hatfield disaster in 2000, it became clear that Railtrack would have to improve the maintenance of its lines - which translates to an increase in spending. Tom Winsor, the Rail Regulator, held an Interim Review which reported in 2003 and gave Network Rail (Railtrack's successor) an additional £7.4 billion. This had not been budgeted for by the Treasury. When the Welsh franchise was let in 2003 there was no additional money made available to increase the subsidy - so short of putting the fares up, which was politically impossible for John Prescott, the franchise was awarded on a 'steady as you go basis'.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I suppose Northern could lend the seven 155's to GWR to help out, we'll battle on with whatever is left up here.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think theres more to the Okehampton issue. The Dartmoor railway not having the correct certifications for mainline operations being one of them.

Those that did run were subject to a speed restriction but I don't know if it had been relaxed somewhat from last weeks fiasco.

 

[IanXC]

I suppose Northern could lend the seven 155's to GWR to help out, we'll battle on with whatever is left up here.

And GWRs shortform problems are more pressing than Northerns?

In any case no TOC other than Northern have crew that sign 155s. Even if that were palatable to get over, surely it would make more sense to delay the cascades from GWR to Northern as the timescales would surely be similar.