Exactly my point. Thank you. Passengers have noticed the chaos.
To be honest I too have cut back my travel on gwr and use the car more often. Result = less revenue for the railway.
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GWR Dec 19 timetable
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Exactly my point. Thank you. Passengers have noticed the chaos.
To be honest I too have cut back my travel on gwr and use the car more often. Result = less revenue for the railway.
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R
RailUK Forums
That’s your choice to drive because you cannot cope with the absolute hell of riding an IET
Many people who work in London don’t really have a choice, it’s stressful and takes longer, Congestion Charge won’t help and some people realise that taking the IET is no where near as bad as it is made out to be and that taking the train is a lot more convenient. You can’t blame the IET for adding congestion to the M4.
It’s also not a failure of a project, let alone just because you weren’t in the right place for first class. The PIS and Announcements tell you what “zone” your train will be in, sometimes incorrect.
The way you've written it out makes it clear that for 3/4 of the possibilities standing where you can go to coach 5/6 is the best solution, but you'd hope GWR would know which way around the 80xs are so the PIS can be accurate.
DaveHarries
Established Member
Not all of us find it so. As someone who uses them during the working day I personally have no problem with them. Each to their own though.
Dave
Agreed, it was a sarcastic comment
In other news a few of the :15 departures for Bristol Temple Meads via Parkway are now being advertised as in service, also GWR have retweeted some “100 days until fast Bristol services” article.
This thread is to discuss GWR December 2019 timetable. If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, or any of the factors which contribute to the timetable changes in more detail, please use another thread (please create one if there isn't one already)
Thanks
Thanks
DaveHarries
Established Member
Ok fair enought but I wasn't sure: I know the IETs are like Marmite for some: either like 'em or hate 'em. Anyway let's get things back on topic.Agreed, it was a sarcastic comment
One change I have just noticed is that the current 2G80 (0715 Gloucester - Great Malvern) is replaced by an 0610 Bristol Temple Meads - Worcester Shrub Hill service (2E50) which leaves Gloucester at 0711. This train returns from Worcester as 2C12 (0855 Worcester Shrub Hill - Westbury) which replaces 2F97 (0850 Great Malvern - Westbury)
Dave
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VT 390
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Does this mean Great Malvern, Malvern Link and Worcester Foregate Street will loose there first through service towards Cheltenham? As the WMR services are also being re timed it will mean an earlier start for people who used to get the 08:50 and a change at Worcester Shrub Hill.
This service usually gets quite busy at Foregate Street so does anyone know why this change has happened?
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
The whole pattern of trains along this route in the mornings has changed
DaveHarries
Established Member
Just realised I got my facts wrong! 2E50 is in fact 0610 Bristol Temple Meads - Worcester Foregate Street (not Shrub Hill) and 2C12 starts from Foregate Street. But although the through service is lost from Malvern Link & Great Malvern there is, in fact, a West Midlands Trains service (1M05, 0836 Great Malvern - Birmingham New Street) which is due into Worcester Foregate Street at 0847 which I guess almost replaces that. See https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/WOF/2019/12/16/0756
Dave
VT 390
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But there is already an 08:38 from Great Malvern to New Street so the 08:36 is the replacement for this. I'm not sure of the times but I think there is a London service around 09:00 from Great Malvern from December which replaces the current 08:50 Westbury service but it does mean a longer gap towards Worcester and passengers going towards Cheltenham on GWR only tickets (I know there will not be that many) will have to pay extra for the part to Worcester.
Mitchell Hurd
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Hello there. Was my point regarding the timetable change posted on here? Maybe I forgot to click 'Post Reply' but if I did click it then it's been moved.
swt_passenger
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Is it this one?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/december-2019-timetable-change.183126/page-6#post-4195801
It’s in the general Dec 2019 thread rather than GWR
Or this one:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-185-cascade.191478/page-3#post-4195728
It’s in the 185 cascade thread.
Mitchell Hurd
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Yep - typical example of a Monday morning. I put it in the wrong thread, silly me
. Is it possible for it to be moved to the GWR Dec Dec 2019 thread? I'm a bit unfamiliar with copying on here.swt_passenger
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Probably quickest to just copy and reply again in a new reply, and then edit “may be deleted” in the misdirected post.Yep - typical example of a Monday morning. I put it in the wrong thread, silly me
I don't think it's been mentioned here yet that the Severn Beach line appears to be going hourly to Severn Beach all year round from December. At present, it's only hourly on summer Sundays, with 2tpd on other Sundays (with hourly trains only going as far as Avonmouth).
DaveHarries
Established Member
Yes I've seen this. Most of the SBL journeys on Mondays to Fridays are being retimed, particularly in the morning peak and I think that these retimings may catch passengers used to the current times unaware. Retimings for some of the stations at peak periods are only a by a couple of minutes but some of the times are changed by at least 5 minutes meaning slightly quicker journey times, in some cases, than at present.
For comparison the Monday to Friday morning peak trains to Bristol TM will be like this:
Until 14/12/2019 (inclusive):
2K01 0600 Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads, 0641
2K03 0629 Avonmouth - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0658
2K05 0716 Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0758
2K07 0751 Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0832
2K09 0836 Avonmouth - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0908
From 16/12/2019 (inclusive):
2K01 0553 Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0633
2K03 0621 Avonmouth - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0650
2K05 0714 Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0753
2K07 0747 Severn Beach - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0825
2K09 0832 Avonmouth - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 0901
It is also worth noting that 2K40 (1816 Weston-s-Mare - Avonmouth, which dep. Bristol TM at 1846) is replaced between Weston-super-Mare and Bristol TM by a new working (2D74, 1810 Weston-s-Mare - Bristol Parkway) which arr. Bristol TM at 1842. Booked on Platform 3 though whereas 2K40 will go from Platform 1 using the unit off 2K37 (arr. 1832) so only a cross-platform change.
HTIOI,
Dave
DaveHarries
Established Member
It looks as if things may change on what forms 5C50. I just had a look on RealTimeTrains and 5C36, previously Exeter St. Davids - Exeter New Yard, has now become 0124hrs Exeter St. Davids - Laira T&RSMD on Tuesday to Friday mornings: the 5C36 Exeter St. Davids - Exeter New Yard is now Saturday and Monday mornings only.
However 5C50 runs Monday to Friday mornings. So if 5C36 goes to Laira on Tuesday to Friday mornings then what does that leave for 5C50 the next morning I wonder?
Dave
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
In terms of planning so far as Stock balances are concerned there are still 3 months to go until the start of the Timetable and the final allocation of stock available and the cascades are still not definitely finalised so there could still be changes. Don't even rely on RTT for scheduled passenger services until they are released to the public which is to be September 22nd. In the meantime I'll try and decipher the stock at Exeter but noting that GWR seem to be still working on them.
Parkway (Filton Coal Yard) follows the same fare structure as Cardiff / Newport so no gain, Theal (if you can find it ) is within 50 miles of London so day return after 09.00 £21.30 And yes I frequently drove from Bristol to Theal, saving upto 200.00 at todays prices. Painless part of the motorway then 2 tph through and 2 more change @ Reading were Pumpkin is cheaper than M4 services
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PHILIPE
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To add to this, the stock workings are still being processed as it is obvious they don't balance.
Mitchell Hurd
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I'm keen to do a trip to the Malvern Hills in January - apparently it's nice at anytime of year (obviously when it's pouring it won't be) as my former school, Fitzwaryn, in Wantage went there for a residential trip in around May / June 2007.
I was looking at train times on trainline for the first week of the December 2019 timetable and have found that services beyond Oxford to the North Cotswolds now depart at around xx:45.
If that's true for the timetable then I'm guessing the existing once that leave Paddington around xx:20 get caught in congestion in the Worcester area with the West Midlands Railway services + I guess at the moment services run within not many minutes of each other to and from Hereford, Great Malvern and Worcester?
I was looking at train times on trainline for the first week of the December 2019 timetable and have found that services beyond Oxford to the North Cotswolds now depart at around xx:45.
If that's true for the timetable then I'm guessing the existing once that leave Paddington around xx:20 get caught in congestion in the Worcester area with the West Midlands Railway services + I guess at the moment services run within not many minutes of each other to and from Hereford, Great Malvern and Worcester?
Beyond Malvern Wells signalbox, the line is single to Hereford, with only one passing loop at Ledbury. The WMR services to and from Hereford cross at Ledbury (they must do in order to have an hourly service), so the GWR services beyond Great Malvern must necessarily be fitted into the gaps left by the WMR services. This inevitably means they're basically half an hour away from WMR services at the Hereford end. So the times past the hour can't change by much at the Hereford end (though some change by a whole hour).
The big change in December is the change from HST/Turbo timings to 802 timings, which means services are much faster between Oxford and Worcester: the better acceleration of the 802s up to 75mph means a gain of about 8 minutes from Oxford to Worcester Foregate Street, and about 6 minutes from Worcester Foregate St to Oxford, compared to HST timings.
The paths identified also manage to avoid the need for long dwells at Evesham/Moreton-in-Marsh, so the 11:50 departure from Paddington / 12:45 departure from Oxford can arrive at Hereford at 14:41, compared to today's 10:22 departure from Paddington / 11:25 departure from Oxford arriving at Hereford at 13:47. A net end-to-end speed up of 34 minutes! The up direction gains aren't so spectacular, but 12 minutes isn't to be sniffed at.
Mitchell Hurd
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I know what people might say about the IET's but they mean much newer, longer cleaner and far lower-polluting vehicles on that route.
The great thing with the routes to and from London and the North Cotswolds routes being all operated by IET's is that the shortest train to or from London will now be 5 coaches. I remember the horrid last-minute experience of a 2-car 165 on the 17:25/17:30ish from Worcester Foregate Street to Oxford on the 06/10/17 instead of a much nicer 180 not long before they were withdrawn.
Thankfully GWR had the sense to avoid this issue by making the routes mentioned, in the above paragraph, one type of high-speed train which on the North Cotswolds routes I understand are 5 and 9 coaches. Much less complicated
!There always seem to be some winners and some losers in these changes. The winners here are Yate and Cam+Dursley which will now actually have an early morning service to Gloucester, Cheltenham, Ashchurch and Worcester. The current service doesn’t allow for any form of commuting beyond Gloucester from Yate and C+D (10.20 is the earliest arrival in Worcester), and even the first train to Gloucester itself doesn’t arrive until 8.30.
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DaveHarries
Established Member
Just noticed that, effective 16th December, 2M67 (1852 Paignton - Bristol Temple Meads) is replaced by two separate workings:
- 1852 Paignton - Exeter St. Davids, arr. 1943 (2E32)
- 1939 Exeter St. Davids - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 2045 (2M70)
Not great for anyone wanting to travel during the evening from Paignton to Bristol Temple Meads although the frequency of one train roughly every 30 minutes between Paignton and Exeter SD runs until about 1950hrs and there is a Cross Country working at 2018 to Birmingham New Street. However the impression given on RealTimeTrains (at the time of writing this post) suggest that the unit for 2M70 will arrive from London Paddington as 1C89 meaning that 2M70 will be an IET.
Dave
- 1852 Paignton - Exeter St. Davids, arr. 1943 (2E32)
- 1939 Exeter St. Davids - Bristol Temple Meads, arr. 2045 (2M70)
Not great for anyone wanting to travel during the evening from Paignton to Bristol Temple Meads although the frequency of one train roughly every 30 minutes between Paignton and Exeter SD runs until about 1950hrs and there is a Cross Country working at 2018 to Birmingham New Street. However the impression given on RealTimeTrains (at the time of writing this post) suggest that the unit for 2M70 will arrive from London Paddington as 1C89 meaning that 2M70 will be an IET.
Dave
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PHILIPE
Veteran Member
It seems like the reason is for diagramming
freetoview33
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The Weston-Bristol Parkway service is cut back again to Filton Abbey Wood.
-Colly405-
Member
I don't have RTT close to hand but don't many of the new PAD-BPW non-stops run to WSM (instead)?
Not really, RTT indicates 1245, 1445 and 1545 from Paddington run to Weston-super-Mare.
Filton Abbey Wood terminators run to signal BI2052 on the Filton curve to reverse.
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