GWR Cornwall Sleeper has terrible timings for Reading customers: possible solutions?

[tornado]

I was recently considering the GWR sleeper service to Cornwall. As somebody who lives in the SE outside London, Reading is far more convenient for me to join than Paddington.

The timings from Reading are 00.50am joining westbound, and 4am getting off eastbound. In both cases you'd be pushed to get 5 hours sleep on the train if you went to Penzance. I can't imagine anybody would consider this an attractive option, especially for leisure.

Why are these timings so poor? I thought of two solutions myself:

Westbound - leave Paddington at 10.45pm instead of 11.45pm, allowing getting on at Reading before Midnight. Extra dwell time in Plymouth to make up for the earlier arrival.

Esstbound - stop somewhere between Taunton and Reading for an hour or two!

 

[Nova1]

I guess the majority of passengers will board at Paddington and pushing it forwards an hour might be inconvenient for scheduling and you've got to pay all your crew for an extra hour.

 

[tornado]

They allow boarding at Paddington at 10.30pm so the crew are there already.

 

[IanXC]

I've always understood the departure time from Paddington to be about giving passengers as long as possible in London, should they have been to the Theatre etc, and of course boarding starts somewhat earlier anyway.

In the morning the arrival into Paddington was altered some years ago I recall, so that those who are travelling to Heathrow can get an early Heathrow Express and make the earliest flights.

I suspect both of these concepts attract more passengers than would be gained by improving the offer at Reading.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Would it be practical to join / alight the train at Paddington and make the 23 minute journey to/from Reading by normal services?

 

[CD]

The main use of the Reading stop is for passengers heading to and from Heathrow by the Railair link.

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/uploads/node_images/RA1%20from%2023%20Jan%202021_0.pdf

 

[ashkeba]

Would it be practical to join / alight the train at Paddington and make the 23 minute journey to/from Reading by normal services?

That would add £50+ to the cost, would not it?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Westbound - leave Paddington at 10.45pm instead of 11.45pm, allowing getting on at Reading before Midnight. Extra dwell time in Plymouth to make up for the earlier arrival.

Departing Paddington at 22.45 would only be leaving London 45 minutes after the last ‘daytime’ service to Plymouth!

 

[JonathanH]

That would add £50+ to the cost, would not it?

No. The contactless fare from Reading to Paddington is £10.90 so long as you touch in before 0630 in the morning.

 

[Ianno87]

The morning arrival has to be early to vacate the platform at Paddington in time for the morning peak to start.

 

[dk1]

I think the later departure from London is far more important & it could have operational consequences for crewing the train further down the line hence why it runs as it does.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. The contactless fare from Reading to Paddington is £10.90 so long as you touch in before 0630 in the morning.

Indeed. One further fix would be to allow the double back for free if you have used the Sleeper. But to be honest I would happily pay 20 quid for the extra kip.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Why are these timings so poor?

To actually answer that part, being pretty blunt, the market GWR aim for with the sleeper are those travelling to and from London, not Reading. And the timings will be set to best suit the market they are actually aiming for.

 

[deltic]

Indeed. One further fix would be to allow the double back for free if you have used the Sleeper. But to be honest I would happily pay 20 quid for the extra kip.

In BR days it was advertised that passengers travelling to and from Reading could join or leave at Paddington by paying the single fare between Reading and Paddington

 

[tornado]

I understand that the main market is Paddington, however given the thousands who visit Cornwall every Summer for Tourism the currrent sleeper doesn't suit them well unless they happen to live in central London. I wonder if anyone has considered the business case of summer sleepers to cornwall from various parts of England?

The roads down there are choked in the summer so I'm sure many would think about other options.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In BR days it was advertised that passengers travelling to and from Reading could join or leave at Paddington by paying the single fare between Reading and Paddington

I guess that means "if you've booked a ticket from Reading to the Westcountry you can buy a single from Paddington to Reading and join the Sleeper at Paddington" rather than "if you are at Reading and want to go to Paddington to join it you can buy a single to Paddington and go there", which is just a tiny bit obvious

 

[dk1]

I understand that the main market is Paddington, however given the thousands who visit Cornwall every Summer for Tourism the currrent sleeper doesn't suit them well unless they happen to live in central London. I wonder if anyone has considered the business case of summer sleepers to cornwall from various parts of England?

The roads down there are choked in the summer so I'm sure many would think about other options.

Sleepers are enormously unprofitable. In fact it was always said they keep the railway accountants awake at night. The chances of any additional routes in the UK are highly unlikely. Remember the nightly Edinburgh/Glasgow-Plymouth & even that was chopped by BR before privatisation.

 

[deltic]

I guess that means "if you've booked a ticket from Reading to the Westcountry you can buy a single from Paddington to Reading and join the Sleeper at Paddington" rather than "if you are at Reading and want to go to Paddington to join it you can buy a single to Paddington and go there", which is just a tiny bit obvious

No - its the latter! If you are at Reading and want to go Penzance - you buy a Reading to Penzance ticket and then you buy a Reading to Paddington ticket to join the sleeper earlier at Paddington.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No - its the latter! If you are at Reading and want to go Penzance - you buy a Reading to Penzance ticket and then you buy a Reading to Paddington ticket to join the sleeper earlier at Paddington.

You would need in that case to buy a Reading-Paddington and Paddington-Reading ticket (or a return).

It's an easement because normally you could not combine Paddington-Reading and Reading-Penzance on the sleeper because it is pick up only at Reading.

 

[The exile]

You would need in that case to buy a Reading-Paddington and Paddington-Reading ticket (or a return).

It's an easement because normally you could not combine Paddington-Reading and Reading-Penzance on the sleeper because it is pick up only at Reading.

This is referring to BR days. As the sleeper berth you’ve booked from Reading to Penzance would earn no revenue between Paddington and Reading and as up trains from Reading would be lightly loaded, they were effectively gaining a single fare from Reading to Paddington which would otherwise not have been bought. Only an accountant would view it as a single fare between Paddington and Reading lost!

 

[deltic]

You would need in that case to buy a Reading-Paddington and Paddington-Reading ticket (or a return).

It's an easement because normally you could not combine Paddington-Reading and Reading-Penzance on the sleeper because it is pick up only at Reading.

No - you didn't need to buy a return - it clearly refers to just having to buy a single ticket.

 

[73128]

No - you didn't need to buy a return - it clearly refers to just having to buy a single ticket.

and in the evening at least, a off peak day return would be barely more than an off peak single.

 

[Horizon22]

I was recently considering the GWR sleeper service to Cornwall. As somebody who lives in the SE outside London, Reading is far more convenient for me to join than Paddington.

The timings from Reading are 00.50am joining westbound, and 4am getting off eastbound. In both cases you'd be pushed to get 5 hours sleep on the train if you went to Penzance. I can't imagine anybody would consider this an attractive option, especially for leisure.

Why are these timings so poor? I thought of two solutions myself:

Westbound - leave Paddington at 10.45pm instead of 11.45pm, allowing getting on at Reading before Midnight. Extra dwell time in Plymouth to make up for the earlier arrival.

Esstbound - stop somewhere between Taunton and Reading for an hour or two!

Hop up to Paddington in 25 mins and join there? Reading really isn't the main market. Will be more costly (although you could get a stopper) of course, but as I said its mainly to cater for London - Cornwall demand.

 

[ac6000cw]

I understand that the main market is Paddington, however given the thousands who visit Cornwall every Summer for Tourism the currrent sleeper doesn't suit them well unless they happen to live in central London. I wonder if anyone has considered the business case of summer sleepers to cornwall from various parts of England?

The roads down there are choked in the summer so I'm sure many would think about other options.

40-50 years ago (and earlier) BR ran quite a few 'Summer Saturday' extra trains to the West Country from the North and Midlands, some of which were overnight seated trains but I don't think any of them carried sleeping cars - I suspect the market wasn't there, at least at a price that would have been profitable, and probably the extra sleeper stock wasn't available either.

I think most people wouldn't choose to travel overnight anyway when there are decent daytime alternatives - as you point out, the Cornish sleeper service journey time is effectively too short for decent night's sleep anyway...

 

[The exile]

40-50 years ago (and earlier) BR ran quite a few 'Summer Saturday' extra trains to the West Country from the North and Midlands, some of which were overnight seated trains

.and later! The odd FO late night IC down to the West Country was still running at the end of the 1980s - only just over 30 years ago.

 

[Tryfan]

I wonder if anyone has considered the business case of summer sleepers to cornwall from various parts of England?

The roads down there are choked in the summer so I'm sure many would think about other options.

If only they could offer an economic service where you could take your car on the train as well. They could call it Motorail

Having just faced a three hour delay on the journey back up the M5 I’d seriously consider it if there was a competitively priced alternative

 

[30907]

If only they could offer an economic service where you could take your car on the train as well. They could call it Motorail

Do you mean economic for the operator (ie not losing money) or economic for the customer (not costing too much more than motoring).

Having just faced a three hour delay on the journey back up the M5 I’d seriously consider it if there was a competitively priced alternative

It seems to have been particularly dire this year.

 

[Tryfan]

Do you mean economic for the operator (ie not losing money) or economic for the customer (not costing too much more than motoring).

It seems to have been particularly dire this year.

Economic for the customer

and yes dire journey, much worse than normal

 

[paul1609]

I understand that the main market is Paddington, however given the thousands who visit Cornwall every Summer for Tourism the currrent sleeper doesn't suit them well unless they happen to live in central London. I wonder if anyone has considered the business case of summer sleepers to cornwall from various parts of England?

The roads down there are choked in the summer so I'm sure many would think about other options.

Paddington will be the station of Choice for most of south east England not just Central London. South of the Thames we do have the North Downs Line to Reading but that will only be of interest to stations on the line. Even here in West Sussex if we want to go to Reading most people will go via Central London. This will be more so when Crossrail opens and Paddington is just one change at Faringdon. Presumably this will be the case for people on the ECML and MML north of London too.

 

[cyclebike]

While I agree that the Reading schedule is rather anti-social, I have on occasion joined the sleeper there for Cornwall, as the departure time is so late I can leave work after a late shift, cycle to Reading, and still make the train ... so it has its uses (normally the only, or one of very few, passengers joining there)

I haven't alighted at Reading, however - the arrival time is early, but perversely not quite early enough for me to make it to work in time for an early shift!