GWR Class 802 underfloor engine arrangement.

[Master29]

Was travelling home from Exeter St David's a couple of weeks ago in coach C and noticed an engine sound from underneath as you would expect from the 5 engined coaches on a 9 car set only that coach C doesn't usually have this. Sadly to my shame I cannot remember which unit I was travelling on. Is the engine arrangement fixed or barring the driving trailers can it be a more random arrangement on IET's in general?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Was travelling home from Exeter St David's a couple of weeks ago in coach C and noticed an engine sound from underneath as you would expect from the 5 engined coaches on a 9 car set only that coach C doesn't usually have this. Sadly to my shame I cannot remember which unit I was travelling on. Is the engine arrangement fixed or barring the driving trailers can it be a more random arrangement on IET's in general?

Ah, does it sound like it revs at the same speed as a 172 at idle. I've had this on the IET's around 2 or 3 times.

 

[gingertom]

Was travelling home from Exeter St David's a couple of weeks ago in coach C and noticed an engine sound from underneath as you would expect from the 5 engined coaches on a 9 car set only that coach C doesn't usually have this. Sadly to my shame I cannot remember which unit I was travelling on. Is the engine arrangement fixed or barring the driving trailers can it be a more random arrangement on IET's in general?

I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong, but I understand the arrangement for a 5car 802 is cars 2, 3 and 4 are powered, with one transformer in car 1. For the 9 car it is 2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 that are powered, with both 1 & 9 with transformers.

OT for this thread but there's information elsewhere on the forum suggesting the arrangements on the 810 are cars 1, 2, 3 & 4 equipped with engines, cars 2 and 4 have traction motors (uprated ones compared to the 802) and the transformer in car 5.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong, but I understand the arrangement for a 5car 802 is cars 2, 3 and 4 are powered, with one transformer in car 1. For the 9 car it is 2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 that are powered, with both 1 & 9 with transformers.

OT for this thread but there's information elsewhere on the forum suggesting the arrangements on the 810 are cars 1, 2, 3 & 4 equipped with engines, cars 2 and 4 have traction motors (uprated ones compared to the 802) and the transformer in car 5.

For a 5-car 800 or 802, yes. 9-cars are 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8.

Only the centre coach in each 5-car Class 810 will not have an engine.

 

[irish_rail]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong, but I understand the arrangement for a 5car 802 is cars 2, 3 and 4 are powered, with one transformer in car 1. For the 9 car it is 2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 that are powered, with both 1 & 9 with transformers.

OT for this thread but there's information elsewhere on the forum suggesting the arrangements on the 810 are cars 1, 2, 3 & 4 equipped with engines, cars 2 and 4 have traction motors (uprated ones compared to the 802) and the transformer in car 5.

Close, but on a 9 car powered coaches are in vehicle 2 3 5 7 8.

 

[D6975]

OT for this thread but there's information elsewhere on the forum suggesting the arrangements on the 810 are cars 1, 2, 3 & 4 equipped with engines, cars 2 and 4 have traction motors (uprated ones compared to the 802) and the transformer in car 5.

I'd hazard a guess that the engineless coach is the FC.

 

[Mintona]

Was travelling home from Exeter St David's a couple of weeks ago in coach C and noticed an engine sound from underneath as you would expect from the 5 engined coaches on a 9 car set only that coach C doesn't usually have this. Sadly to my shame I cannot remember which unit I was travelling on. Is the engine arrangement fixed or barring the driving trailers can it be a more random arrangement on IET's in general?

Coach C will always have an engine underneath, no matter the formation.

 

[Master29]

Coach C will always have an engine underneath, no matter the formation.

One of those thing when I could have sworn this isn't true but having checked through publications and online I'm happy to admit I'm wrong on this one. Thanks for the correction.

 

[gingertom]

Close, but on a 9 car powered coaches are in vehicle 2 3 5 7 8.

my bad. I do think that it should be 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 though but we are trying to decarbonise the railway.

 

[hwl]

my bad. I do think that it should be 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 though but we are trying to decarbonise the railway.

Only 5 engines on a 9 car:
2-3-5-7-8

 

[gingertom]

Only 5 engines on a 9 car:
2-3-5-7-8

oh I know, but can't help wondering at the ease hills could be climbed with 7 power packs....

 

[hwl]

oh I know, but can't help wondering at the ease hills could be climbed with 7 power packs....

I'd put very large battery packs under 4&6

 

[Richard Scott]

oh I know, but can't help wondering at the ease hills could be climbed with 7 power packs....

For goodness sake, with 5 engines that's almost 5000hp, if that can't cope then there's something seriously wrong. Seven 950hp diesels, fuel consumption would be horrendous, must be bad enough as it is!

 

[Master29]

For goodness sake, with 5 engines that's almost 5000hp, if that can't cope then there's something seriously wrong. Seven 950hp diesels, fuel consumption would be horrendous, must be bad enough as it is!

But EMT have 7 coach/engine class 222's albeit only 750hp each. Still must be costly.

 

[Richard Scott]

But EMT have 7 coach/engine class 222's albeit only 750hp each. Still must be costly.

Their fuel consumption is pretty bad as far as I'm aware and CO2 per km is ridiculous, think a 5 car Voyager quoted as around 8000g/km. How would a loco hauled train compare, can't imagine be that bad? Wonder how the 802 does compare?

 

[43055]

OT for this thread but there's information elsewhere on the forum suggesting the arrangements on the 810 are cars 1, 2, 3 & 4 equipped with engines, cars 2 and 4 have traction motors (uprated ones compared to the 802) and the transformer in car 5.

I'd hazard a guess that the engineless coach is the FC.

The 810's will have engines in all but the center vehicle according to post 829 in the 810 thread.

(2) Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates | Page 28 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

 

[XAM2175]

... think a 5 car Voyager quoted as around 8000g/km ...

I presume you mean "gal" for gallons rather than "g" for grams?

 

[Richard Scott]

I presume you mean "gal" for gallons rather than "g" for grams?

No mean g for grams as that's how CO2 emissions are measured.

 

[XAM2175]

No mean g for grams as that's how CO2 emissions are measured.

Oh hell, I really do need to get my eyes checked.

 

[D6975]

The 810's will have engines in all but the center vehicle according to post 829 in the 810 thread.

(2) Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates | Page 28 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

Yes. I've now found that info elsewhere. Only thing missing from that post is that the transformer is to be in the middle vehicle, which makes sense as it will be the one with the most space available.
1st in 1 and half of 2, so it's standard class that get the privilege of the engineless vehicle.

 

[gingertom]

Yes. I've now found that info elsewhere. Only thing missing from that post is that the transformer is to be in the middle vehicle, which makes sense as it will be the one with the most space available.
1st in 1 and half of 2, so it's standard class that get the privilege of the engineless vehicle.

that sounds like a change. It was originally reported that the transformer was to be located in a driving vehicle, the one without an engine, no doubt for weight distribution. Putting the transformer in the middle and locating the engines in 1, 2, 4, 5 might improve the weight distribution further and standardise/simplify inter-car traction cabling. No doubt the techs are 100% on top of it and whatever arrangement emerges will work well in service.