GWR Class 800

[JonathanH]

Why is there a tendency to send 800s to the West Country on Sundays when they don't seem to get sent there during the week.

800032 and 800006 are allocated to the first Paddington to Penzance working (0800 from Paddington, 1500 back) today which is presumably intended as a 10-802 working.

Is it just that this is out and back from North Pole Depot whereas the faster journey times on other days of the week mean the diagrams for West Country trains mean they end up at a non-Hitachi approved stabling point at one or the other end of the day?

 

[Melancholia]

Why is there a tendency to send 800s to the West Country on Sundays when they don't seem to get sent there during the week.

800032 and 800006 are allocated to the first Paddington to Penzance working (0800 from Paddington, 1500 back) today which is presumably intended as a 10-802 working.

Is it just that this is out and back from North Pole Depot whereas the faster journey times on other days of the week mean the diagrams for West Country trains mean they end up at a non-Hitachi approved stabling point at one or the other end of the day?

802001 + 802014 were first allocated for that early in the morning, not sure why they were swapped out for that pair of 800s.

 

[DarloRich]

On Saturday I had my first run on a class 800 train travelling between Paddington and Newport travelling in second class. I thought I would record my views as I have been very critical of these trains without ever having experienced one.

Firstly, the HST is still a nicer train to be in, comfort wise, than the 800. I knew this would be the case and I wasn't disabused of that view. HOWEVER the journey wasn't as horrific as I thought it might be.

The positives:

• Fast
• Very quick off the mark
• Smooth
• Plenty of leg room in an airline seat.
• Decent views
• Pleasant ambiance
• Good lighting
• Good internal colour scheme
• Plugs
• Free wifi
• Seat comfortable enough with none of the cheap plasticness of the Voyager or Pendo.
• Diesel not as bad rattle and vibration wise as Voyager.
• Not as cramped as a Voyager or pendolino

The whole train is certainly much better, even on diesel, than the horrible Voyager and much more comfortable than the Pendolino. My big concern is the comfort of the seats on a really long journey. Newport is only 110 minutes after all.

The diesel switch over was obvious and the engine noise (i was in the front coach of a 2 train set) noticeable but not intolerable. Much better in a big, isolated box on the front than under the floor.

Overall: A good modern train.

 

[CptCharlee]

Are there any plans to redesign the seats with more padding like LNER ones for GWR.

I mean some of the 800s seats and carpets are really tatty and look awful already.

 

[Esker-pades]

Firstly, snap. My first 800 run was this Saturday from Paddington to Newport.

I generally agree with you, but I found the ride quality generally not great. I could feel the trackwork through the train in a much more detail manner than I'm used to on a train. The whole thing felt very stiff.

 

[Mag_seven]

and the engine noise (i was in the front coach of a 2 train set) noticeable but not intolerable

Interesting observation as the front (and rear) vehicles on a 5 car are unpowered!

 

[Thunderer]

Good internal colour scheme...Really? Gloomy Grey, fake wood panneling and hideous Lime Green? Its awful, its like riding in a cheap, sterile office, while sitting on a park bench. Technically it may be a good train, but the passenger experience is truly awful (Even in First Class). Its a serious de-improvement for Long Distance Inter-City services.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are there any plans to redesign the seats with more padding like LNER ones for GWR...

Any evidence for a redesign, because there are numerous posts explaining that the LNER unit’s seats are identical, even if the covering is different.

 

[JN114]

Are there any plans to redesign the seats with more padding like LNER ones for GWR.

I mean some of the 800s seats and carpets are really tatty and look awful already.

The LNER ones don’t have any extra padding; just a change of covering material to something similar to the ‘new’ seat covers on the GWR sets. Don’t believe the PR hype LNER are stirring up.

 

[tasky]

View attachment 60163 So I’ve just seen this picture on Facebook of a GWR IET with these new seats, they look nice but are they more comfortable than then DFT spec seats that most of the 800s have? From what I can tell it looks like they have a little more padding

At least visually these are a lot more pleasant

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least visually these are a lot more pleasant

They are I believe moquette rather than flat cloth (has any TOC going for the latter not regretted it?) - they do, I agree, look much better though.

 

[Will Mitchell]

On Saturday I had my first run on a class 800 train travelling between Paddington and Newport travelling in second class. I thought I would record my views as I have been very critical of these trains without ever having experienced one.

Firstly, the HST is still a nicer train to be in, comfort wise, than the 800. I knew this would be the case and I wasn't disabused of that view. HOWEVER the journey wasn't as horrific as I thought it might be.

The positives:

• Fast
• Very quick off the mark
• Smooth
• Plenty of leg room in an airline seat.
• Decent views
• Pleasant ambiance
• Good lighting
• Good internal colour scheme
• Plugs
• Free wifi
• Seat comfortable enough with none of the cheap plasticness of the Voyager or Pendo.
• Diesel not as bad rattle and vibration wise as Voyager.
• Not as cramped as a Voyager or pendolino

The whole train is certainly much better, even on diesel, than the horrible Voyager and much more comfortable than the Pendolino. My big concern is the comfort of the seats on a really long journey. Newport is only 110 minutes after all.

The diesel switch over was obvious and the engine noise (i was in the front coach of a 2 train set) noticeable but not intolerable. Much better in a big, isolated box on the front than under the floor.

Overall: A good modern train.

Good lighting - really? I suppose it’s an improvement on the FGW Mk 3, but that was a torture chamber in standard class. I think train interiors in general need a significant rethink; we are in danger of rail losing a competitive advantage over other forms of transport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good lighting - really?

It's about the same as a Class 350 if I recall, and that's OK. It's not as classy as I would like, but I think more people like it reasonably bright than like it shadowy and atmospheric as I prefer.

Indeed, at one point during my journey to Bristol on one I thought I was in a Class 350...until the seat started causing backache again. Like the Javelin the atmosphere is not at all dissimilar.

I suppose it’s an improvement on the FGW Mk 3, but that was a torture chamber in standard class. I think train interiors in general need a significant rethink; we are in danger of rail losing a competitive advantage over other forms of transport.

I don't disagree, and this time it's not been done for reasons of cramming seats in - the legroom on the 800 is excellent, possibly the best Standard Class on the network in that regard.

 

[FQ]

I generally agree with you, but I found the ride quality generally not great. I could feel the trackwork through the train in a much more detail manner than I'm used to on a train. The whole thing felt very stiff.

I agree. I had my first 9 car just under a week ago (on electric, for the first time not on diesel too) from Reading to Didcot. I was very interested to see how it'd perform as it'd been a year since my last experience and that was only Newport to Bristol Parkway. The performance on electric was very good from a standing start but the ride quality, particularly over points, seemed to have no give so it was like the train was grinding along. Far worse than the HSTs I'd had previously that day for sure. I was sat in coach B, the second one from the front, which was the pantograph coach. The noise in that coach from the pan was very loud and my travelling companion commented that it was very similar to an S stock in that respect, as was the ride quality! This run was in the dark (21:15 Padd-Swansea on the 7th of March) and the lighting was definitely overkill for this time. It's a shame that with trains like this they can't have brighter lighting during the day (if it's really needed...) and it then dims itself as it gets darker outside. The diesel engine was unbelievably loud as it came on just before Didcot too, and the vibrations clearly noticeable, but I don't think they're like that on the move and it was just the start up for this one.

 

[nat67]

I agree. I had my first 9 car just under a week ago (on electric, for the first time not on diesel too) from Reading to Didcot. I was very interested to see how it'd perform as it'd been a year since my last experience and that was only Newport to Bristol Parkway. The performance on electric was very good from a standing start but the ride quality, particularly over points, seemed to have no give so it was like the train was grinding along. Far worse than the HSTs I'd had previously that day for sure. I was sat in coach B, the second one from the front, which was the pantograph coach. The noise in that coach from the pan was very loud and my travelling companion commented that it was very similar to an S stock in that respect, as was the ride quality! This run was in the dark (21:15 Padd-Swansea on the 7th of March) and the lighting was definitely overkill for this time. It's a shame that with trains like this they can't have brighter lighting during the day (if it's really needed...) and it then dims itself as it gets darker outside. The diesel engine was unbelievably loud as it came on just before Didcot too, and the vibrations clearly noticeable, but I don't think they're like that on the move and it was just the start up for this one.

Lovely

 

[Kite159]

I agree. I had my first 9 car just under a week ago (on electric, for the first time not on diesel too) from Reading to Didcot. I was very interested to see how it'd perform as it'd been a year since my last experience and that was only Newport to Bristol Parkway. The performance on electric was very good from a standing start but the ride quality, particularly over points, seemed to have no give so it was like the train was grinding along. Far worse than the HSTs I'd had previously that day for sure. I was sat in coach B, the second one from the front, which was the pantograph coach. The noise in that coach from the pan was very loud and my travelling companion commented that it was very similar to an S stock in that respect, as was the ride quality! This run was in the dark (21:15 Padd-Swansea on the 7th of March) and the lighting was definitely overkill for this time. It's a shame that with trains like this they can't have brighter lighting during the day (if it's really needed...) and it then dims itself as it gets darker outside. The diesel engine was unbelievably loud as it came on just before Didcot too, and the vibrations clearly noticeable, but I don't think they're like that on the move and it was just the start up for this one.

Isn't it the driving coaches which have the pantographs?

The same ones which don't have diesel engines underneath so how could you be sat in both a coach with a pantograph & with an engine?

But shock horror, a youngster who loves HSTs hating their replacements... Confirmation bias at play.

 

[FQ]

Isn't it the driving coaches which have the pantographs?

The same ones which don't have diesel engines underneath so how could you be sat in both a coach with a pantograph & with an engine?

But shock horror, a youngster who loves HSTs hating their replacements... Confirmation bias at play.

I've just checked and it appears that you're right. I thought it was the second coach based on the fact I saw the pantograph was up towards the front of the train and the fact that our coach was incredibly noisy accelerating. If it's like that not even in a pan coach...!

Where did I say I hated them? If a better job had been done with the class then maybe I'd consider them worthy successors but if that's all that can be provided with technology 40 years more advanced than with the HST then I'll definitely be critical of them. I don't see what my age has to do with anything, particularly given that I was travelling with someone in his 50s who came to a very similar conclusion to me about the new trains? For your information this is what I posted in this very thread after my first journey on them:

I'm currently on 800013 and 800022 on the 1410 from Newport to Bristol Parkway. My first journey on an IET so thought I'd give my opinion.

Entering 800022 at Newport gave a new train smell. The doors to enter the main compartment of the coach and to change coach are, like the HSTs, automatic although you don't have a click and hiss as the doors open. The coach itself is very airy and spacious. The windows are a good size and someone of my height can easily see over the seat tops, giving a panoramic view instead of the restricted one you get on the HSTs and other units such as pendolinos. A good mix of airline and table seats with good legroom in both. The major downside is the seats themselves. I found that they were very hard and bent in a awkward way for my back to be comfortable. The area where your head would rest is very hard too so I found that it was comfier to lean forward. Definitely not suitable seats for a long distance journey.

Vibrations from the engines were pretty much unnoticeable although the engine noise was although less so after gaining speed. Acceleration was impressive up to 30mph with it being a bit sluggish after that. Electronic reservation system wasn't working on this trip so can't comment on that (other than the fact it may be unreliable because it hasn't been working on 100% of my trips )

Overall a rather good unit as units go.

I do believe that as units go they are pretty good but they're a downgrade on the GWML. You compare them to pendolinos for example and they're far more spacious and pleasant but you compare them to most LHCS and they're a massive let down. As an example, as much as I dislike 91s+mk4s I still consider them better than the IETs. That's not because of the traction (91s are probably my least favourite locomotives in the country) but rather because of the additional comfort mk4s offer over the IET, even if their ride qualities are very similar...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do believe that as units go they are pretty good but they're a downgrade on the GWML. You compare them to pendolinos for example and they're far more spacious and pleasant but you compare them to most LHCS and they're a massive let down. As an example, as much as I dislike 91s+mk4s I still consider them better than the IETs. That's not because of the traction (91s are probably my least favourite locomotives in the country) but rather because of the additional comfort mk4s offer over the IET, even if their ride qualities are very similar...

Excuse me while I laugh my coffee all over the keyboard!

Mk4s have some upsides (the current seating and colour scheme is quite nice, though to be fair the latter is to be replicated in the "Azuma" 80x), but the ride is appalling, worst InterCity train on the network in that regard. At 125 in places they feel like they've come off the road.

The 800 appears to ride similarly to, but a bit smoother than, a Class 350, which isn't the best but is acceptable.

 

[DanNCL]

But shock horror, a youngster who loves HSTs hating their replacements... Confirmation bias at play.

Is there really any need for that? So what if he's a bit biased, everyone has some sort of bias towards various things, it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't like them, and doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

 

[nat67]

Is there really any need for that? So what if he's a bit biased, everyone has some sort of bias towards various things, it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't like them, and doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

I hate Voyagers even more than IET's. I have only had one IET, it was a pair of 802's from Reading to Paddington. Bad enough but I got something better going back out. 43009+43161

 

[Esker-pades]

Excuse me while I laugh my coffee all over the keyboard!

Mk4s have some upsides (the current seating and colour scheme is quite nice, though to be fair the latter is to be replicated in the "Azuma" 80x), but the ride is appalling, worst InterCity train on the network in that regard. At 125 in places they feel like they've come off the road.

The 800 appears to ride similarly to, but a bit smoother than, a Class 350, which isn't the best but is acceptable.

I find Mk4s better than Mk3s on the ECMl and certainly prefer travelling on them. Where the problem may be is that IC225 sets have only one powered loco, so one is either being shoved or pulled, both of which aren't great (certainly for initial starting).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find Mk4s better than Mk3s on the ECMl and certainly prefer travelling on them. Where the problem may be is that IC225 sets have only one powered loco, so one is either being shoved or pulled, both of which aren't great (certainly for initial starting).

No, it's a side to side hunting and occurs at speed, it isn't the "bang-judder-judder-judder" you used to get on 87+Mk3 sets on the WCML when starting off.

 

[Esker-pades]

No, it's a side to side hunting and occurs at speed, it isn't the "bang-judder-judder-judder" you used to get on 87+Mk3 sets on the WCML when starting off.

Again, I find Mk3s worse in that reguard. My stuff moves noticeably when on HST services as compared to an IC225. I have very few problems with the IC225, and the one you've described is not one I've noticed, despite it being rolling stock I use reasonably frequently.

 

[FQ]

Excuse me while I laugh my coffee all over the keyboard!

Mk4s have some upsides (the current seating and colour scheme is quite nice, though to be fair the latter is to be replicated in the "Azuma" 80x), but the ride is appalling, worst InterCity train on the network in that regard. At 125 in places they feel like they've come off the road.

The 800 appears to ride similarly to, but a bit smoother than, a Class 350, which isn't the best but is acceptable.

I agree that the Mk4s have very poor ride quality but so do the 800s, just in a different way. I don't enjoy travelling on Mk4s in the same way I do on other LHCS but it's preferable to travelling on an 800. I'd say the 350 has a better ride quality than the 800, having travelled on many 350s before, but the Mk4s are indeed worse than both, but not by a huge amount when compared to an 800.

I'd say the best word to describe, at least the GWR 800 interior, is simply 'sterile'. The Mk4s and Mk3s just aren't like that and the difference in passenger comfort is a clear display in this 'race to the bottom'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd say the best word to describe, at least the GWR 800 interior, is simply 'sterile'. The Mk4s and Mk3s just aren't like that and the difference in passenger comfort is a clear display in this 'race to the bottom'.

Ignoring the seating comfort issue which is a matter of opinion, the Mk4 interior is basically identical to the 80x interior that LNER will have - wood-effect on the vehicle ends and red seats.

I do think the GWR sets would benefit from a bit more dark green (on the seats) to make them seem a little less bland. And the nasty 1990s bus style green stripe (almost all 1990s buses had this lime green colour on their handrails) could do with being dark green.

 

[FQ]

Ignoring the seating comfort issue which is a matter of opinion, the Mk4 interior is basically identical to the 80x interior that LNER will have - wood-effect on the vehicle ends and red seats.

I do think the GWR sets would benefit from a bit more dark green (on the seats) to make them seem a little less bland.

It may be my imagination but is the lighting not also brighter in the 80xs? I think the LNER ones will be far better than the GWR ones in the interior colour, which will hopefully make them much nicer, but I'm still not sure if the lighting would be suitable for long journeys after dark. I know many people who can get headaches from too bright a light, particularly over long periods of time so if you're doing London to Edinburgh or something like that on an evening train in winter it may just be horrible (not mentioning the seats, which are uncomfortable after only quarter of an hour ).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It may be my imagination but is the lighting not also brighter in the 80xs? I think the LNER ones will be far better than the GWR ones in the interior colour, which will hopefully make them much nicer, but I'm still not sure if the lighting would be suitable for long journeys after dark. I know many people who can get headaches from too bright a light, particularly over long periods of time so if you're doing London to Edinburgh or something like that on an evening train in winter it may just be horrible (not mentioning the seats, which are uncomfortable after only quarter of an hour ).

Yes, it is a bit bright, but not dissimilar to the Class 350. It's a very disappointing aspect when you look at what can be and is done on aircraft using 3-colour LEDs and imaginative "fake dawn" type schemes.

Mind you so are many other things - for instance flickery orange-LED passenger information displays when current tech can do far more. The Class 700 type system should be standard now I would say.

 

[Mag_seven]

'race to the bottom'.

In the case of a class 800 is that the "race to the sore bottom"?

 

[TractiveEffort]

It may be my imagination but is the lighting not also brighter in the 80xs? I think the LNER ones will be far better than the GWR ones in the interior colour, which will hopefully make them much nicer, but I'm still not sure if the lighting would be suitable for long journeys after dark. I know many people who can get headaches from too bright a light, particularly over long periods of time so if you're doing London to Edinburgh or something like that on an evening train in winter it may just be horrible (not mentioning the seats, which are uncomfortable after only quarter of an hour ).

It’s your imagination, the lighting is the same across all fleets. There is a BS EN standard for rolling stock lighting, the 80x meets this. The standard was published in either 2001 or 2002, I forget which and gives limits for lux and glare, stock built before this would be to a different standard, but would have to meet it if refurbed.

 

[td97]

There is a BS EN standard for rolling stock lighting, the 80x meets this. The standard was published in either 2001 or 2002

BS EN 13272:2012
Railway applications. Electrical lighting for rolling stock in public transport systems.
Riveting read, as always with BS EN .

• At least 150 lux in seating areas without a reading light
• At least 100 lux in areas with a reading light

Unchanged from the previous 2001 incarnation

The noticeable change is from:

4.1.4 Colour appearance
In order to obtain an appropriate colour appearance, the colour temperature of the lamps used for the general lighting should be between 3 000 K and 3 300 K. For reasons of interior design and well-being, the colour appearance may deviate more in some areas, e.g. dining cars.

to

4.1.4 Correlated colour temperature
The correlated colour temperature of the lamps used for general lighting shall be between 2 800 K and 7 000 K. NOTE For reasons of visual comfort, colour temperatures above 5 000 K are not advisable.

i.e. 'cooler' (higher K) colour temperatures are now permitted