GWR Class 800

[cactustwirly]

That's the problem with outsourcing all of your train manufacturing to 'abroad'.

Absolute rubbish! The 'abroad' manufacturers make better trains, and the build quality out of UK factories is actually pretty poor!

Having a quick look around when it emptied, 800030 was in an absolutely diabolical state. Take a look at all the stains and damage shown below:
View attachment 58274
View attachment 58276
View attachment 58277
View attachment 58278
View attachment 58279
View attachment 58280

And finally, this strange problem:
View attachment 58275
It seems most armrests were missing a chunk on this end, some worse than others. And this is the most expensive train in the world...? :/

Well it's still a lot better than a mouldy HST!

But that's what you get when you order a cheap train, with poor build quality!

 

[samuelmorris]

The seat staining issue is rife, my seat looked like that when I travelled on an 800 back in November. I wonder if that's something the newer coverings would solve? That staining issue doesn't seem anywhere near as prevalent on any other stock (including numerous iterations of ironing boards) so hopefully that will imminently be resolved. The armrests issue seems like something that is only going to get worse though.

 

[Thunderer]

Has anybody actually got anything new and interesting to discuss about the 800s, or are we in for another 351 pages of the exact same posters telling us how much they hate them blah blah blah.

Ok, lets discuss one of the other outstanding issues with the IET (Inept Expensive Train) that has cropped up in recent weeks, the issue of the looping power cables between the coaches. Has Hitachi come up with a remedial solution for this and if so, what is it and when is the remedial work to begin for both GWR and LNER? As I understand it, RSSB will not allow Azuma's into service until this is fixed?

 

[northernbelle]

The seat staining issue is rife, my seat looked like that when I travelled on an 800 back in November. I wonder if that's something the newer coverings would solve? That staining issue doesn't seem anywhere near as prevalent on any other stock (including numerous iterations of ironing boards) so hopefully that will imminently be resolved. The armrests issue seems like something that is only going to get worse though.

The issue of the staining seats has been long known, which is why the IETs are having the covers changed. It's taken Hitachi far longer to do this than it should've - no 800s should ever have entered service with the cloth seats, but the majority of 5-cars still have them.

Armrests were always going to get damaged with the trolleys passing through - again, it's on Hitachi to ensure they are properly maintained or replaced if they've suffered damage.

 

[Railperf]

The issue is that the UK seat specification is so unique many manufacturers don't consider it worth adapting their designs that are acceptable elsewhere for such a relatively restricted market

What is the UK seat specification and how does it differ to European TSI standards?

 

[yorksrob]

It isn’t. It’s a problem with the standards. Shouldn’t the seat standards here be the TSI standard as used elsewhere? In any case I just don’t believe it is down to the standard, but is primarily about cost - the operators don’t give a stuff about their passengers.

I'd have thought it was as much to do with the size of our loading guage and the size of seats that can be fitted in, so not something that can be legislated away.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'd have thought it was as much to do with the size of our loading guage and the size of seats that can be fitted in, so not something that can be legislated away.

No, because European trains use the same type of seats!

 

[Envoy]

One would think that a new design of trolley would be used - with no sharp edges in order to reduce the risk of damage. Hardly rocket science to produce such a trolley!

Regarding the seats: are we getting new seats that can be wiped or getting new seats that will stain but have a pattern that ‘masks’ the staining? If the latter, I hope that the present seat covers are kept to that I can clearly see the dirty seats as I would rather stand than use them. I thought that the cheap hard seats were so that they could be ripped out (if damaged) at the end of the day and replaced with a new one.

 

[bastien]

I hear they're removing all the seats and replacing them with grab rails, because everyone complained so much.

(This isn't actually true but, you know, careful what you wish for.)

 

[broadgage]

One would think that a new design of trolley would be used - with no sharp edges in order to reduce the risk of damage. Hardly rocket science to produce such a trolley!

Regarding the seats: are we getting new seats that can be wiped or getting new seats that will stain but have a pattern that ‘masks’ the staining? If the latter, I hope that the present seat covers are kept to that I can clearly see the dirty seats as I would rather stand than use them. I thought that the cheap hard seats were so that they could be ripped out (if damaged) at the end of the day and replaced with a new one.

I don't believe that the intention was to routinely replace the whole seat, they are probably very expensive. Even just replacing the cushion or padding would probably be expensive.
What should be done is to routinely replace dirty seat covers with new or laundered ones, this is clearly not happening.

 

[ABB125]

I believe I saw 802102 at Evesham today working 1W25. Is this correct, and are the class 802s being introduced first on the Cotswold line?

 

[father_jack]

Loads of 5 cars tootling around today, major morning delays off depots due to fitting "horn socks" after failures yesterday due to snow ingress. But the icing on the cake yesterday, 1700 PAD BRI cancelled due a "train fault"..... Hitachi didn't fuel it

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Loads of 5 cars tootling around today, major morning delays off depots due to fitting "horn socks" after failures yesterday due to snow ingress. But the icing on the cake yesterday, 1700 PAD BRI cancelled due a "train fault"..... Hitachi didn't fuel it

Been on 2x5 car 800 today on the 1456 CDF-PAD and it broke down at BPW which has now been terminated here to go to Stoke Gifford depot. Luckily this was by destination and the next train in formed of a 5 vs 9 short form. Which is going to be full and standing!

 

[irish_rail]

I believe I saw 802102 at Evesham today working 1W25. Is this correct, and are the class 802s being introduced first on the Cotswold line?

Yes the plan is for the 9 car 802s to be used everywhere except the services they were bought for (plymouth).

 

[SWRtrainfan]

Has anybody actually got anything new and interesting to discuss about the 800s, or are we in for another 351 pages of the exact same posters telling us how much they hate them blah blah blah.

Yeah I don't know why certain people have to moan so much about new trains. I actually like the IETs more than the HSTs

 

[yorksrob]

No, because European trains use the same type of seats!

They can't be all that good then.

 

[cactustwirly]

They can't be all that good then.

German ICEs use the IET first class seat in their Standard class, and it's actually quite comfortable IMO.
The OeBB RailJets use Grammers in Economy class, Wider leather 2+1 versions in First, not sure what they use in Business.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

Yes the plan is for the 9 car 802s to be used everywhere except the services they were bought for (plymouth).

It would made common sense for 9 car 802’s to do Plymouth/Penzance to free up 2 five car sets for Oxford fasts and Bedwyn!

 

[Clarence Yard]

Yes the plan is for the 9 car 802s to be used everywhere except the services they were bought for (plymouth).

The cl.802 9 cars were not primarily "bought for" the West of England services - the initial 7 were about half and half for W of E and other routes and the second batch of 7 were for Oxford/growth on non W of E routes. In high summer, in the 2020 timetable, currently only around 4 to 5 of the 12 diagrams will be on W of E.

 

[irish_rail]

The cl.802 9 cars were not primarily "bought for" the West of England services - the initial 7 were about half and half for W of E and other routes and the second batch of 7 were for Oxford/growth on non W of E routes. In high summer, in the 2020 timetable, currently only around 4 to 5 of the 12 diagrams will be on W of E.

So are we right to assume the rest of the time it is going to be all 5s and 10s? There really is no hope outside of high summer of any 9 cars down here?

 

[Master29]

So are we right to assume the rest of the time it is going to be all 5s and 10s? There really is no hope outside of high summer of any 9 cars down here?

Some people have this belief that Devon and Cornwall go to sleep between September and the next July. For anyone who lives here this is not the case. Cornwall trains remain busy until around mid November and pick up again from February onwards. OK maybe not as packed as August but the Cornish Riviera and Royal Duchy are always packed by the time they reach Plymouth from Penzance during this 10 month period. Surely these would need to be 9/10 car at these stages.
I`m not saying all from Penzance need to be 9 car but I still think they may have misjudged this and I say this as a regular user on these services. There should have been more 9 car and possibly less 5 car I reckon. The fact they`ll be having to use 5 x 2 regularly will show this but what do we know. We were ignored about buffets so not expecting too much.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Loads of 5 cars tootling around today, major morning delays off depots due to fitting "horn socks" after failures yesterday due to snow ingress. But the icing on the cake yesterday, 1700 PAD BRI cancelled due a "train fault"..... Hitachi didn't fuel it

No idea where you get your info from, but there were no sets on depot awaiting horn socks.....
If it’s not on the diagram to get fuelled, it won’t be. It’s all to do with Layovers/Handbacks.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Yeah I don't know why certain people have to moan so much about new trains. I actually like the IETs more than the HSTs

I know I've said similar but I can beat that - I prefer them more than the HST's, the train of my childhood (I'm 26 now)! Yes I (and most people) will always love the HST's, but there's something about the IET's that I just love and admire . Those quiet significantly greener MTU diesel engines for a start.

I've said to GWR that they're a huge improvement over the HST's!

One of my favourite features / if not my favourite feature of the IET (and soon to be LNER Azuma) is the doors from the inside of the train where you alight at the platform - big windows compared to the 125's, plus the shape of these windows to me looks like something classic. I admire the brighter lighting and cleaner tidy interior. The shop-style air-conditioning is brilliant!

I don't feel that bad in preferring an IET over an HST because the HST's have certainly proved their worth and have exceeded well over our expectations (positively I mean), plus the UK railways need a high-speed train that will prove much better than the HST's!

 

[tomglazed]

I agree. The IET’s are a much awaited breath of fresh air. Of course not perfect (I’m not going to bring up the S Word on point of principle!) but to be frank my most common misgivings about the IET’s so far is how they are operated, much less the train themselves. Whilst the software issues do not help, the seat reservation situation at present is unacceptable. Would almost do themselves a favour by temporarily suspending reservations until they can more confidently provide the service and avoid repeat disappointment of passengers during transition from old to new + last minute swaps due to teething problems.

 

[Master29]

I don't feel that bad in preferring an IET over an HST because the HST's have certainly proved their worth and have exceeded well over our expectations (positively I mean), plus the UK railways need a high-speed train that will prove much better than the HST's!

Will prove!!. You must have amazing clairvoyance being able to see 40+ years in to the future. I doubt very much iet`s will be around then, especially the 802`s. They`re OK but they`ve got some distance to go before being able to hold a candle to the HST and I don`t need a crystal ball to know that.

 

[387star]

Rubber on armrests is asking for trouble

Surely a protective material can be placed over the sharp edges of the trollies

Southern 377s have battered seats in the 3 plus 2 configuration. Would have thought the sides could be better protected

 

[swtandgw]

I know I've said similar but I can beat that - I prefer them more than the HST's, the train of my childhood (I'm 26 now)! Yes I (and most people) will always love the HST's, but there's something about the IET's that I just love and admire . Those quiet significantly greener MTU diesel engines for a start.

I've said to GWR that they're a huge improvement over the HST's!

One of my favourite features / if not my favourite feature of the IET (and soon to be LNER Azuma) is the doors from the inside of the train where you alight at the platform - big windows compared to the 125's, plus the shape of these windows to me looks like something classic. I admire the brighter lighting and cleaner tidy interior. The shop-style air-conditioning is brilliant!

I don't feel that bad in preferring an IET over an HST because the HST's have certainly proved their worth and have exceeded well over our expectations (positively I mean), plus the UK railways need a high-speed train that will prove much better than the HST's!

I also prefer the IETs, largely because I'm an advocate for electrification, and as someone who lives near the B&H and always uses the GWML in the electrified areas to PAD, they're a massive improvement, along with the 387s.

 

[Beemax]

As a daily Reading to Paddington commuter, travelling on all types of GWR stock, and noting that most IET vs HST comments are about seats. I’d say there are three aspects to seat comfort; i) the softness of the seat, ii) the legroom of the seat and ii) whether you can get a seat at all.

On i) the IET seats are tolerable on a 30 minute trip to Reading , but I wouldn’t want to travel all the way to Penzance.

On ii) as someone who is 6’ 4’’ tall, the IETs offer better legroom

On iii) if you have a 9 or 10 car IET, there’s a much better chance of a seat than an 8 car HST. There are still occasions where you just get a 5 car IET, but I think things are improving iin that respect .

On balance, if there a choice between the two types leaving Paddington at roughly the same time during rush hour, I’ll go for the 800, but only just.

,

 

[Goldfish62]

As a daily Reading to Paddington commuter, travelling on all types of GWR stock, and noting that most IET vs HST comments are about seats. I’d say there are three aspects to seat comfort; i) the softness of the seat, ii) the legroom of the seat and ii) whether you can get a seat at all.

On i) the IET seats are tolerable on a 30 minute trip to Reading , but I wouldn’t want to travel all the way to Penzance.

On ii) as someone who is 6’ 4’’ tall, the IETs offer better legroom

On iii) if you have a 9 or 10 car IET, there’s a much better chance of a seat than an 8 car HST. There are still occasions where you just get a 5 car IET, but I think things are improving iin that respect .

On balance, if there a choice between the two types leaving Paddington at roughly the same time during rush hour, I’ll go for the 800, but only just.

,

IV) The rake of the seat. The more a seat back is tilted, the more body weight is spread, so a firm seat will appear more comfortable than one of the same firmness, but that is more upright

 

[Tom m]

I traveled on an 800 today and I was surprised to see how many people mistook the locked trolley storage cupboard for a toilet, perhaps a sign is required.