GWR Class 800

[Spod]

Hi everybody and greetings from Italy!!
Please, forgive my "rusty" English.

I've been following the IET's deeds from the beginning and there's something that still escapes me.

According to Hitachi's own literature (1), inner frame bogies allow a weight saving of 2.5 tons per bogie (that's 5 tons per car...), they boast also a considerable smaller footprint, allowing the fitment of skirtings/fairings very useful (reduced noise and aerodynamic resistance) to a stock designed for speeds up to 140.
They could also give a non negligible contribution (minus 10 tons) to the "power-to-weight ratio-in-Diesel-mode" issue that's keeping so many people concerned...
Most of early sketches/rendering seemed to suggest they were going to be fitted in the front carriages of every IET but when the first 800's hit the rail, they weren't there....
Why?

I hope I made myself clear enough and accept my apologies if the question was answered before.

(1)
Hitachi Review Vol. 61 (2012), No. 7
Advanced Train Technology and New Development for
Global Markets

Welcome to the forum! Your English is perfectly clear, thanks for making the effort!
I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would reply, but my best guess as to why inner frame bogies were not used in the driving cars is that it proved cheaper and easier to maintain if all the bogies followed the same design. Fairings would impede maintenance, and the dynamic envelope (how far the train rocks when moving at speed) might have been different with different bogies. Maybe they would have gone to the extra expense to accommodate the issues if they had been missing targets on total weight, but otherwise it wasn't worth it.
If anyone actually knows (or can find out) the real answer to ETR401's question, please post!

 

[Domh245]

Welcome to the forum! Your English is perfectly clear, thanks for making the effort!
I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would reply, but my best guess as to why inner frame bogies were not used in the driving cars is that it proved cheaper and easier to maintain if all the bogies followed the same design. Fairings would impede maintenance, and the dynamic envelope (how far the train rocks when moving at speed) might have been different with different bogies. Maybe they would have gone to the extra expense to accommodate the issues if they had been missing targets on total weight, but otherwise it wasn't worth it.
If anyone actually knows (or can find out) the real answer to ETR401's question, please post!

I don't think that necessarily follows, as the intermediate trailer vehicles do have inside frame bogies. I would think that the main reason that they used outside frame bogies on the driving vehicles is for practical considerations, eg the need to fit various sensors and pickups for the likes of ATP, TPWS/AWS, APC Magnets, etc. Certainly if you look at the outside frame bogies on the driving vehicles compared to those on intermediate vehicles, there do seem to be some differences - although I wouldn't necessarily be able to pinpoint them

 

[159220]

Will the newer 800's be delivered with revised seat foam (i.e. more cushioning/softer) or will the get done retrospectively

Sadly, no new seat foam (this was never planned). The cover is changing from a cloth to loop-pile as per 800012 (which was the test unit and the changed was decided before the first service back in October). Currently, no other units have been retro-fitted down to trialing out 012, as well as the lack of units off on maintenance long enough to retro-fit. All 802s I have seen (001-004 & 101) currently have the cloth. Whether newly delivered 005-006 have the loop-pile I do not know as not seen them yet!

 

[Charlie M.]

GWR on Twitter have confirmed that they will install GWR fabric. Whether they soften it at the same time Ibdon’t know

 

[jimm]

The alternative fabric was deliberately chosen to give a softer feel than the current cloth does, but as 159220 says, the foam inside the covers will stay the same.

 

[Mainliner]

With all what's been happening with VTEC lately, I forgot to chip in here. Was on a GWR 800 on Monday for the first time in standard and for me the seat was fine but I can see why many find it too firm. Then I read above there's a different material on some of the more recent sets so now I don't know whether that's why I was fine for me.

I had my first 800 ride from Bath to Paddington the other week, and the (standard) seat was just about bearable for the 90-minute or so trip.

However, if the ECML versions have the same seats, I will be re-examining the air travel options for my regular 3+ hour journeys to and from London.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Click on the image below for what VTEC planned with their Azuma seats. As it says the trains currently out on test currently have the grey seat covers like GWR but VTEC planned to replace them.

No idea what LNER will do.

Here's the text in the image quoted for accessibility reasons:

Insatiably curious colleagues have noticed our test trains all feature a dark grey (for First Class) and light grey (for Standard) interior, and while some computer generated images were created back in 2016, there hasn’t been much talk about Azuma’s interior. Until now.

This week, we can reveal Azuma’s final interior designs and bold new colour pallet. In Standard, customers will see bright red, charcoal and silver, with pale wood grain effect tables.

In First Class, the dark grey has been replaced by a muted luxurious oxblood red and charcoal wood gain effect tables.

While the above pictures are only computer generated images, our Azuma Team is hoping to have a carriage kitted out in the new interior in September. As always, keep an eye out for Be Amazine for more exclusives.

 

[Domh245]

I would expect that LNER will retain that interior. Talk of "we can reveal", "new colour pallet", and "carriage kitted out by September" makes me think that contracts with suppliers have been sorted, and changing it to something else will be expensive at this stage (exactly the sort of thing you wouldn't expect of an OLR)

 

[superalbs]

The first class looks really high-quality on that render, but as long as the Fainsa MDs remain, it won't feel high-quality.

These trains certainly won't help them gain any marketshare against air if they're so cheap feeling!

 

[Mainliner]

Click on the image below for what VTEC planned with their Azuma seats. As it says the trains currently out on test currently have the grey seat covers like GWR but VTEC planned to replace them.

No idea what LNER will do.

Given the lower than expected ECML passenger growth, and the competition from airlines, whoever is responsible for making the decision needs to think very carefully. If the harder seats are simply down to cost, then on long distance routes it’s a cut too far. (I doubt the fire risk explanation, as other forms of transport manage to continue to provide more comfortable seats.)

If, as in my case, costs and door-to-door times aren’t greatly different between rail and air, a deterioration in comfort will become quite a significant factor.

One reason I prefer the train is that for my regular journeys it’s a bit more of a pain getting to and from airports, than to and from stations, but if ironing board seats are going to give me a different type of pain every time, I will definitely reconsider.

 

[Pete_uk]

A birdie informed me that Cheltenham service could start on the 11th June, is this correct?

 

[jimm]

Update in Rail on acceptance of 800s - probably written last week, so things may have moved forward a bit since then.

800005-36 with GWR and accepted for traffic

800001 with GWR, yet to enter traffic

800003 and 800004 still with Hitachi and need full passenger interiors

Doesn't say where 002 is

One nine-car 800 is accepted for traffic, with two more to follow.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...ilway-running-late-on-five-car-iet-acceptance

A couple of nine-car diagrams are due to start on the 11th. One set does two round trips Paddington to Cheltenham and back, the other does one Paddington to Cheltenham and back run, then works the 17.22 to Hereford and 21.51 back to Paddington.

 

[superalbs]

800008 now has a rainbow on it over the GWR logo towards the front.

 

[TwistedMentat]

800008 now has a rainbow on it over the GWR logo towards the front.

That will be for international Pride month most likely.

 

[mushroomchow]

They missed a trick not rebranding the unit as "Gay Western Railway".

*obligatory "this is tongue in cheek" disclaimer before anybody gets offended on behalf of people who I doubt care as much as you do*

 

[BRX]

A couple more 802s delivered today:

 

[59CosG95]

A couple more 802s delivered today:

That'll be 802007 & 802008 then.

 

[TwistedMentat]

They missed a trick not rebranding the unit as "Gay Western Railway".

*obligatory "this is tongue in cheek" disclaimer before anybody gets offended on behalf of people who I doubt care as much as you do*

*snorts*

I'm going to have to tell my gay mates that one.

 

[michael74]

A couple more 802s delivered today:

Why all those flatbeds?

 

[D365]

Why all those flatbeds?

Braking force as the unit brakes will be isolated.

 

[83G/84D]

802002 seen in Exeter St David’s today.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Update in Rail on acceptance of 800s - probably written last week, so things may have moved forward a bit since then.

800005-36 with GWR and accepted for traffic

800001 with GWR, yet to enter traffic

800003 and 800004 still with Hitachi and need full passenger interiors

Doesn't say where 002 is

One nine-car 800 is accepted for traffic, with two more to follow.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...ilway-running-late-on-five-car-iet-acceptance

A couple of nine-car diagrams are due to start on the 11th. One set does two round trips Paddington to Cheltenham and back, the other does one Paddington to Cheltenham and back run, then works the 17.22 to Hereford and 21.51 back to Paddington.

800001 is only on loan to GWR for Driver Training. No acceptance date yet for that or 800002 (Doncaster) as there is still some work to do on those two sets.

800003/4 are the general test/mods test units and there are no proposed acceptance dates yet for them either.

The 9 cars are now due to start on the 18th (2 diagrams) - a weeks delay due to an acceptance issue (but now reportedly resolved) and the second pair of diagrams look likely to be pushed back from 25th June to 2nd July. The third pair of diagrams are now penciled in for 23rd July.

 

[Class465fan]

They missed a trick not rebranding the unit as "Gay Western Railway".

*obligatory "this is tongue in cheek" disclaimer before anybody gets offended on behalf of people who I doubt care as much as you do*

 

[D1009]

800001 is only on loan to GWR for Driver Training. No acceptance date yet for that or 800002 (Doncaster) as there is still some work to do on those two sets.

800003/4 are the general test/mods test units and there are no proposed acceptance dates yet for them either.

The 9 cars are now due to start on the 18th (2 diagrams) - a weeks delay due to an acceptance issue (but now reportedly resolved) and the second pair of diagrams look likely to be pushed back from 25th June to 2nd July. The third pair of diagrams are now penciled in for 23rd July.

Is the planned 802 entry into service still the same?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Now 20th August.

 

[Phil G]

Just travelling on 012 and the fabric is much nicer and feels higher quality than the standard. you don't feel you're going to slide off and it's softer. Gives impression that seat is softer even if it isn't. Big improvement.

 

[Charlie M.]

A birdie informed me that Cheltenham service could start on the 11th June, is this correct?

Could really start now as it isn’t a big launch, the 25th does have Class 800 seat reservation options so I will check for the 11th. Hopefully will be out one weekend for me try out!

 

[Pete_uk]

They will still have to use selective door opening at Stonehouse as there is a big gap in the platform where the bridge will go.

 

[Charlie M.]

Yeah it’s been there for a while now and workers on site but no progress?

 

[jimm]

Could really start now as it isn’t a big launch, the 25th does have Class 800 seat reservation options so I will check for the 11th. Hopefully will be out one weekend for me try out!

As Clarence Yard says in post 7582 from Thursday, the introduction of the nine-car IETs has been delayed by a week until the 18th.