GWR Class 800

[J D Charles]

800009 has been named ‘John Charles’ - and I think that 800004 has been named ‘Sir Gareth Edwards’.
http://www.juventus.com/en/news/news/2018/john-charles-honoured-by-great-western-railway.php

Good Morning,

Sorry to trouble you.

How can I find out the time table for the John Charles/Gareth Edwards Train please?

I would like to get some photos of the John Charles Locomotive that my father named me after.

Many thanks,

John Charles

 

[cactustwirly]

Good Morning,

Sorry to trouble you.

How can I find out the time table for the John Charles/Gareth Edwards Train please?

I would like to get some photos of the John Charles Locomotive that my father named me after.

Many thanks,

John Charles

You can't!
It's allocation will be random, ie no set workings.
The IEP allocations thread will give you an idea which services it could turn up on, but there's no guarantee it will be out on a given day.

 

[IanXC]

You can't!
It's allocation will be random, ie no set workings.
The IEP allocations thread will give you an idea which services it could turn up on, but there's no guarantee it will be out on a given day.

Although if you post in the TOPS request thread on a particular day some kind person may list what the respective units are doing that day (which of course may be that they are on depot).

 

[Pete_uk]

They are not still giving two names to one unit are they?

 

[irish_rail]

They are not still giving two names to one unit are they?

Sadly yes. Must admit I'm not a fan of this policy....that's 4 names per ten car set

 

[43096]

Sadly yes. Must admit I'm not a fan of this policy....that's 4 names per ten car set

Let's be honest, they're not really proper names. Just some sticky letters applied to the bodyside - cheap and tacky (literally!). But that's GWR.

 

[jimm]

No, that's the DfT, which doesn't want people drilling holes in its pet trains to fix on nameplates.

Not there are really any areas of the bodyshell suitable for fixing nameplates to anyway, except for the bit where the GWR logo is, where Hull Trains is also putting its name and where the Virgin brand name is on 800101.

We shall see what the future East Coast operator does, but I doubt Mr Grayling would be too thrilled about it splashing out on cast nameplates...

 

[Defiance149]

We shall see what the future East Coast operator does, but I doubt Mr Grayling would be too thrilled about it splashing out on cast nameplates...

Hitachi won't allow cast nameplates on any IET.

 

[D1009]

Part of the recent disruption on GWR I reckon has been caused by no longer having a standard fleet across their high speed services. When all the 800s and 802s have entered service, will paperwork issues prevent 800s running to Penzance or 802s to Bristol or Swansea?

 

[D1009]

Hitachi won't allow cast nameplates on any IET.

To what are you referring as IET? All 80x vehicles or just those ordered as part of the Dft contract?

 

[fgwrich]

Let's be honest, they're not really proper names. Just some sticky letters applied to the bodyside - cheap and tacky (literally!). But that's GWR.

Indeed so. Still seems such a climbdown for some names - e.g I.K.Brunel, from a cast nameplate (up for auction very soon with GW Auctions) to a sticky tacky effort on the side of an 800. Taking into account the above comments, I can understand why but.

 

[43096]

Indeed so. Still seems such a climbdown for some names - e.g I.K.Brunel, from a cast nameplate (up for auction very soon with GW Auctions) to a sticky tacky effort on the side of an 800. Taking into account the above comments, I can understand why but.

If they can't do it properly, then don't do it all.

It rather smacks of a organisation desperate for any sort of positive PR, during the absolute fiasco that is currently on-going (at least 25 services cancelled again today due to no driver).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would a proper nameplate be out of gauge, perhaps? I recall on some stock that has used them they've had to use special thinner ones with recessed screws.

 

[fgwrich]

If they can't do it properly, then don't do it all.

It rather smacks of a organisation desperate for any sort of positive PR, during the absolute fiasco that is currently on-going (at least 25 services cancelled again today due to no driver).

Are you not dazzled by all these collectors coins then?

The Paddington one looks equally poor. As much as I'm a fan of Paddington Bear, it adds to the toy like lookness of the 800s and looks like it's been graffitied. But I do completely agree with you. Most of my thoughts have already been covered in the Decline of GWR thread so I'll try not to divert this one further, but things such as short formed 800s or cancelled services are doing them no favours - not least with yet again, the "More Trains Than Usual" excuse trotted out yet again today.

 

[D1009]

No I don't work for GWR, but the constant knocking of IETs on here gets utterly tedious at times.
?

And the tedium continues.

 

[Defiance149]

To what are you referring as IET? All 80x vehicles or just those ordered as part of the Dft contract?

Any of them. If VTEC had lasted long enough, the names would have been vinyl.

 

[83G/84D]

800026 on the way to Penzance on a test run from Stoke Gifford.

 

[jimm]

Part of the recent disruption on GWR I reckon has been caused by no longer having a standard fleet across their high speed services. When all the 800s and 802s have entered service, will paperwork issues prevent 800s running to Penzance or 802s to Bristol or Swansea?

In a word - no.

But the 800s will not normally be expected to work west of Exeter and Torbay. And why would they when there's plenty of work for them on the services they were ordered for by the DfT?

The 802s will be able to operate anywhere required. For obvious reasons, the bulk of the work will be on services to Plymouth and Cornwall but the extra batch of seven 9-car 802s was ordered to work other services on the GWR network.

 

[83G/84D]

IET’s are now cleared to run to Newquay even though they have not been on the line on test.

There are still plenty of restrictions on where they are and are not allowed in other parts of Cornwall.

 

[D1009]

In a word - no.

But the 800s will not normally be expected to work west of Exeter and Torbay. And why would they when there's plenty of work for them on the services they were ordered for by the DfT?

The 802s will be able to operate anywhere required. For obvious reasons, the bulk of the work will be on services to Plymouth and Cornwall but the extra batch of seven 9-car 802s was ordered to work other services on the GWR network.

My post was about what might actually happen rather than what is planned. Is there any difference between the 2 classes as regards traction knowledge for example?

 

[Envoy]

Let's be honest, they're not really proper names. Just some sticky letters applied to the bodyside - cheap and tacky (literally!). But that's GWR.

I don't think heavy embossed nameplates would look right on these streamlined trains. I note that when aircraft are given names, that they to must have stick on letters. I just wish that GWR would name then at point of delivery. Goodness knows what IKB would make of his name being on a Japanese train running on his GWR?

 

[irish_rail]

Personally I'd expect stick on names on new units, it isn't that that bothers me I just think one name to one unit makes more sense.

Also slightly disappointed with the selection of 100 greatest westerners whom the trains are to be named after, almost all very English, virtually no ethnic minority names , surprising in the PC times we live in but doesn't exactly post the region in the most progressive and inclusive light . You'd be forgiven for thinking the GWR had gone back to the 1930s with nothing but good ol English names.

 

[gwr4090]

Do we know where the 21 GWR 9-car 800/3 units will be used when they are all in service ? Presumably they will be on longer distance services especially those with Pullman dining ?

 

[jimm]

My post was about what might actually happen rather than what is planned. Is there any difference between the 2 classes as regards traction knowledge for example?

And why would what actually happens be any different from what is planned?

The 800 fleet ordered by the DfT under the IEP programme will be working in the areas the DfT ordered them for, as per the DfT's instructions to GWR as its franchisee.

The main 802 order was planned with one role in mind, serving Devon and Cornwall and getting over the gradients on the Devon banks - with the odd side excursion in the peaks to the Cotswolds and Malverns. Why would that change?

The extra 802s were to give a bit more flexibility to the overall 800/802 fleet on GWR in the light of the delay to Oxford electrification and the desire to retain through services between London and Bedwyn.

Other than different software settings for diesel engine management and traction purposes the trains are near as makes no difference identical in every way - why would that need different traction knowledge?

Do we know where the 21 GWR 9-car 800/3 units will be used when they are all in service ? Presumably they will be on longer distance services especially those with Pullman dining ?

As 800s, ordered by the DfT for the IEP programme, they will be working mostly between London, Bristol and South Wales.

The Class 802 order includes nine-coach sets which will most likely to be the trains of choice for the Pullman restaurant services to the West Country,

 

[JN114]

Do we know where the 21 GWR 9-car 800/3 units will be used when they are all in service ? Presumably they will be on longer distance services especially those with Pullman dining ?

Majority of Pullman services are on West of England duties which would entail Class 802 operation not 800.

The 9 car 800/3s will be used on the same spectrum of services the 5+5s are now - HSS services on the Paddington to Taunton/Carmarthen/Cheltenham/Hereford.

All GWR 80x units will have the so-called “Level 1” kitchen in the First Class driving vehicle, so in theory a Pullman service could be offered on any combination of 5/9/10 car 800/802.

In reply to D1009 (multi-quote not working for some reason) -

In the crew allocation systems the traction skills are called “Class 800/802 Diesel” and “Class 800/802 Electric” - so it should just be the two competencies (Diesel + Electric).

I wouldn’t expect 800s to be diagrammed West of Taunton in ordinary scheme of things; similarly I wouldn’t expect 802s to be diagrammed to go to Swansea - but I don’t foresee any issues of either happening if it had to.

 

[D1009]

And why would what actually happens be any different from what is planned?

A good question given what is currently happening.

 

[DenmarkRail]

IET’s are now cleared to run to Newquay even though they have not been on the line on test.

There are still plenty of restrictions on where they are and are not allowed in other parts of Cornwall.

Imagine one at St Ives

 

[D1009]

Majority of Pullman services are on West of England duties which would entail Class 802 operation not 800.

The 9 car 800/3s will be used on the same spectrum of services the 5+5s are now - HSS services on the Paddington to Taunton/Carmarthen/Cheltenham/Hereford.

All GWR 80x units will have the so-called “Level 1” kitchen in the First Class driving vehicle, so in theory a Pullman service could be offered on any combination of 5/9/10 car 800/802.

In reply to D1009 (multi-quote not working for some reason) -

In the crew allocation systems the traction skills are called “Class 800/802 Diesel” and “Class 800/802 Electric” - so it should just be the two competencies (Diesel + Electric).

I wouldn’t expect 800s to be diagrammed West of Taunton in ordinary scheme of things; similarly I wouldn’t expect 802s to be diagrammed to go to Swansea - but I don’t foresee any issues of either happening if it had to.

That's good news.

 

[transmanche]

In the crew allocation systems the traction skills are called “Class 800/802 Diesel” and “Class 800/802 Electric” - so it should just be the two competencies (Diesel + Electric).

That's quite interesting - and not something I've seen mentioned before.

So, is the train's performance in diesel mode sufficiently different from electric mode, that different driving techniques are required?

 

[JN114]

That's quite interesting - and not something I've seen mentioned before.

So, is the train's performance in diesel mode sufficiently different from electric mode, that different driving techniques are required?

It’s more systems; but the handling is (apparently) a little different to get used to on AC vs Diesel.

There’s (at least) one GWR driver depot that - even under the most ambitious/optimistic Electrification plans will drive 80x traction but *never* have to work them on Electric power - that being Penzance.

There’s also a handling hours component that requires X many hours driving on AC - which was difficult to achieve when they were first doing driver training as the OHL only covered the first 23 Miles out of Paddington. Now there are a lot more trains running and twice as much route mileage wired and live it’s a bit easier.

The upshot is that it makes more sense to teach drivers on Diesel mode; then upgrade them to Electric - this is usually done concurrently; but some of the earliest drivers trained had their training split into separate Diesel and Electric courses.