GWR Class 800

[jimm]

Are the HSTs to the Cotswolds often busy then? They always seem empty to me, but then again I've only been on weekends.

Yes. They don't run HSTs in the weekday peaks and on Sunday afternoon services back to London for the fun of it. The 06.42 from Hereford can be full and standing arriving in Oxford in the morning and the 17.22 from Paddington is also very heavily loaded leaving Oxford.

Off-peak HSTs are quiet, but they are run either because that's what stock is available (in the middle of the day), to get the trains to the right places for the next morning's peak services, or to form Oxford-London afternoon peak fast trains (the 16.01. 16.31. 17.01, 17.31 and 18.02 departures from Oxford all come off the Cotswold Line).

Weekday HSTs in the middle of the day look likely to be among early candidates for IET conversion, maybe even at the same time as IETs replace 180s at the start of next year.

 

[Thunderer]

I took a First Class ride on 800008+800009 this evening up to Cardiff. I have got to say I was very impressed and I think this train has been a bit under rated. The seating in First Class was very comfortable and the train was very quiet, with a smooth ride and a very rapid acceleration while working on diesel. I imagine when these trains are runing on 25Kv between Paddington and Cardiff late next year will be when we will see them at their ultimate best. I will miss the legendary HST when it eventually leaves main line services on GWR, but the class 800 and the 802 will be very popular with passengers, reliable and no doubt be a suitable 21st century HST replacement Here is a picture this evening of leading unit 800009 at Cardiff Central working the 17:29 Swansea - Paddington.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

If you listen to that clip of it, it reminds me of the sound that might be made by a child's toy police car. (Skip to about 4:48)

Indeed- Nice video!

 

[Thunderer]

Not sure if this has been covered here, but have the class 800 diesel engines in service been uprated from 750HP to 940HP? I have seen posts where they have been recorded in service yesterday and today at 110mph and higher, so I was wondering are they putting the 750HP's though their paces, or have Hitachi and the DFT agreed to ramp them up to 940HP?

 

[Mikey C]

Got an email from GWR about the new IEP trains today. The reference to the improved air conditioning was perhaps a bit unfortunate

Bigger and better is getting closer

• More seats, more tables, more legroom and extra luggage space

• Improved air conditioning

• Improved passenger information and Wi-Fi throughout

• LED information screens and a digital seat reservation system

 

[samuelmorris]

Oh I dunno, water cooling is always more effective than air cooling

 

[sbatts43]

Can't say I'm very impressed, a very expensive procurement exercise and very modern looking outside and then I stepped on the train and honestly I was the most underwhelmed I've ever been by a new train, the colour scheme is dull and the bright green is horrible and the different colour tables to the back of the seat looks odd and the end of the carriages bulkhead/walls are horrible, I just had a feeling of "meh" the whole time I was on it. The PIS wasn't working, the air-con wasn't working and the hand-dryer in the toilet didn't work and the doors appeared slow to open.

Then I hopped off and got on a GWR HST which is far better train to sit in with a far better interior scheme, far better seating in standard class and a far better color scheme and generally far less drab and actually had a bit of character about it. I'm no massive loco hauled fan and find the MK4s hideous (800s are certainly better) and never been a massive MK3 fan either, but the GWR MK3 interior for me is better than the 800 without any question of a doubt.

The DFT ought to hang their head in shame for the amount of taxpayers money that they have wasted on what is a vanity project that cost way too much, they have no clue how to design proper interiors as witnessed by the 700s as well and honestly if you compare these to other trains in other countries flagship routes they're nothing special at all but no doubt the DFT takes any praise they will get from any corner directly whilst shifting any blame onto the TOC.

The nationalising the praise and privatising the blame agenda will no doubt continue.

I have not been on a Class 800 so I cannot give my opinion of them. Not yet anyway. I love the HST 125 lovely seating, lovely Interiors and they give a comfortable ride. Should`nt they have have Ironed out problems first after all those miles of testing, or did`nt they have Air Conditioning on while they were testing them on the Class 800.

 

[sbatts43]

Got an email from GWR about the new IEP trains today. The reference to the improved air conditioning was perhaps a bit unfortunate

Bigger and better is getting closer

• More seats, more tables, more legroom and extra luggage space

• Improved air conditioning

• Improved passenger information and Wi-Fi throughout

• LED information screens and a digital seat reservation system

How can they have 25% more seats when people were still standing.

 

[50031]

How can they have 25% more seats when people were still standing.

Because lots of enthusiasts, journalists etc etc wanted to travel on the inaugural services. The times and diagrams for the launch have been common knowledge in this forum and to those including myself who bought last months edition of Today's Railways magazine

 

[superkev]

Is the debutant, (009 was it), the only one accepted for service or are more available with more diagrams in the pipeline.
Thanks

 

[Pete268]

Sorry if this is a daft question, but when there are two five car units joined together, are there two guards (one for each unit) and two sets of first class hosts (for the two first class sections - one in each unit). Or do they change from unit to unit at stations along the route? When they eventually get around to having the chef on board for first class meals, will these only be served in one of the units, or will there be two chefs (one for each unit)? If there is only one 'chef unit', how will one be able to book seats in the unit with the chef on board?

Just wondering that's all, I will be making my first journey on one next year.

 

[broadgage]

Sorry if this is a daft question, but when there are two five car units joined together, are there two guards (one for each unit) and two sets of first class hosts (for the two first class sections - one in each unit). Or do they change from unit to unit at stations along the route? When they eventually get around to having the chef on board for first class meals, will these only be served in one of the units, or will there be two chefs (one for each unit)? If there is only one 'chef unit', how will one be able to book seats in the unit with the chef on board?

Just wondering that's all, I will be making my first journey on one next year.

One guard only on a 5+5.
Two first class hosts, one in each unit, allegedly. I for one am a bit doubtful about this being achieved reliably.
For first class complimentary snacks, no chef needed, the first class host will do this. For a Pullman restaurant service, For various reasons I can not see this working on a 5+5 service, hopefully the intention is to provide a full length train for Pullman services.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When they're running in electric mode, does anything like engine pre-heaters run all the time to enable quick switching between electric and diesel mode?

 

[Filton Bank]

When they're running in electric mode, does anything like engine pre-heaters run all the time to enable quick switching between electric and diesel mode?

When automatic power changeover (APCo) installation is complete, engine pre-heat for electric to diesel will begin at a location well before the changeover point as determined by the on-board GPS.

At the moment though, power changeover at Maidenhead is manual - the driver presses a button to go from electric to diesel and another to go from diesel to electric. It is possible to pre-heat the engines via the TMS prior to changing from electric to diesel, but it's too much of a distraction risk to expect drivers to do it on the move, so it's not happening at present.

 

[SaveECRewards]

For a Pullman restaurant service, For various reasons I can not see this working on a 5+5 service, hopefully the intention is to provide a full length train for Pullman services.

My original thinking was a Pullman wouldn't work on a 5+5, but I now think it might be better after all. They could designate the first class carriages of one train as the restaurant and the other as the regular first class with complimentary catering. This would avoid the weird situation of a section of the carriage getting silver service and the remainder getting served out of paper cups (the contrast is noticeable on the current HSTs due to the different standard of service offered, on the East Coast/GNER as everyone got proper cups/glasses the contrast was smaller), it would also mean the regular first class service wouldn't be held back by the Pullman.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Do we know of the Class 800s will be timed to be facing a particular direction (ie first class in the front/middle/rear) once the full IEP Timetable is in operation?

 

[pdeaves]

Not sure if this has been covered here, but have the class 800 diesel engines in service been uprated from 750HP to 940HP?

Not uprated, but 'un-derated', but yes, a greater power output is now possible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's interesting that on the AllTheStations video they interviewed a couple sat in the First Class non-window seats and they didn't comment negatively on that. I reckon there will be people who won't mind, e.g. those wanting to work on laptops the whole journey without light reflecting on the screen.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is the debutant, (009 was it), the only one accepted for service or are more available with more diagrams in the pipeline.
Thanks

The first day, plus yesterday, had 800 005, 800 006, 800 008 and 800 009 in service, running as two pairs.

There are three others passed for service, presumably 800 003, 800 004 and one other which I am not sure about the identity of.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

One guard only on a 5+5.
Two first class hosts, one in each unit, allegedly. I for one am a bit doubtful about this being achieved reliably.
For first class complimentary snacks, no chef needed, the first class host will do this. For a Pullman restaurant service, For various reasons I can not see this working on a 5+5 service, hopefully the intention is to provide a full length train for Pullman services.

But if guard despatch is always at the rear or towards the rear then won't that mean the guard has never the opportunity to be in the front 5 coaches to do ticket checks, walk through the train, providing assistance, etc... unless, of course, there is a reversal during the journey?

 

[Domh245]

Do we know of the Class 800s will be timed to be facing a particular direction (ie first class in the front/middle/rear) once the full IEP Timetable is in operation?

I understand that the plan is for first class to always be at the london end

The first day, plus yesterday, had 800 005, 800 006, 800 008 and 800 009 in service, running as two pairs.

There are three others passed for service, presumably 800 003, 800 004 and one other which I am not sure about the identity of.

003 and 004 aren't cleared for use , the other units are 010, 011, and 013

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if guard despatch is always at the rear or towards the rear then won't that mean the guard has never the opportunity to be in the front 5 coaches to do ticket checks, walk through the train, providing assistance, etc... unless, of course, there is a reversal during the journey?

Presumably there are several panels so the guard can dispatch from wherever they see fit? That is true of most modern stock and indeed the HSTs.

The fact that the guard has to ask driver permission to use the local door is odd, though the rest of it is more like Voyager operation give or take the guard actually getting a close button.

 

[Filton Bank]

Presumably there are several panels so the guard can dispatch from wherever they see fit? That is true of most modern stock and indeed the HSTs.

The fact that the guard has to ask driver permission to use the local door is odd, though the rest of it is more like Voyager operation give or take the guard actually getting a close button.

Yes, panels in one vestibule per coach (at the door on each side obviously!). The driver passing door control to the guard is because the guard has no control over the SDO system. The driver has to check the TMS to ensure the SDO is correctly configured and the correct doors selected for release, which the guard can't do from a door panel in the vestibule.

It also prevents doors being released by the guard in the event of a stop short which has happened in the past on HSTs.

 

[Filton Bank]

But if guard despatch is always at the rear or towards the rear then won't that mean the guard has never the opportunity to be in the front 5 coaches to do ticket checks, walk through the train, providing assistance, etc... unless, of course, there is a reversal during the journey?

It won't always be at/towards the rear.

 

[jimm]

Not sure if this has been covered here, but have the class 800 diesel engines in service been uprated from 750HP to 940HP? I have seen posts where they have been recorded in service yesterday and today at 110mph and higher, so I was wondering are they putting the 750HP's though their paces, or have Hitachi and the DFT agreed to ramp them up to 940HP?

Not uprated, but 'un-derated', but yes, a greater power output is now possible.

The engines on 800s have never been derated, uprated, or un-derated.

All the engines fitted to 800s are capable of delivering full power when required and always have been.

The original Department for Transport plan for the 800s envisaged that in normal operations (when running on diesel at speeds above 100mph on a regular basis was not expected) the engine management system would be set to run the engines at the lower power output - unless an engine failed.

If that happened, then the others would automatically switch up to the maximum power output to compensate for the loss of that engine.

With the need to run on diesel above 100mph on a regular basis until the overhead wires reach further west next year, the engine management system is now set so the maximum output ia available all the time - like the 802s.

I've yet to see any indication of what the DfT plans to do about engine output once almost all the 125mph running area on GWR routes is wired by the end of next year - but as the extra maintenance the diesels will need must be costing a pretty penny, they may well opt to go back to the settings that were initially envisaged.

 

[47802]

It's interesting that on the AllTheStations video they interviewed a couple sat in the First Class non-window seats and they didn't comment negatively on that. I reckon there will be people who won't mind, e.g. those wanting to work on laptops the whole journey without light reflecting on the screen.

Well possibly there are people who wont be bothered but I would find it really annoying and even more so with a 1st class ticket, especially as we have had trains with plug doors for nearly 30 years, and even with sliders would it have not been possible for Hitachi to put a small window in the door pocket which Bombardier managed to do on sliding door Electrostars.

In standard class I will be looking for a seat in the driving trailer as it looks like the only carriage with no seats by the door pockets.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's interesting that on the AllTheStations video they interviewed a couple sat in the First Class non-window seats and they didn't comment negatively on that. I reckon there will be people who won't mind, e.g. those wanting to work on laptops the whole journey without light reflecting on the screen.

That was in Standard class. What it didn't show is that in these seats there's no spacer or armrest between the seats.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, panels in one vestibule per coach (at the door on each side obviously!). The driver passing door control to the guard is because the guard has no control over the SDO system. The driver has to check the TMS to ensure the SDO is correctly configured and the correct doors selected for release, which the guard can't do from a door panel in the vestibule.

It also prevents doors being released by the guard in the event of a stop short which has happened in the past on HSTs.

That really does seem like a messy set-up.

 

[Kite159]

How can they have 25% more seats when people were still standing.

Because it was a peak time service towards Paddington from Reading, and Reading commuters will pile onto the first available fast service.

 

[Goldfish62]

Because it was a peak time service towards Paddington from Reading, and Reading commuters will pile onto the first available fast service.

And then moan that they've got to stand for 30 minutes.