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GWR Class 800

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83G/84D

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Sorry if this is going over old ground already covered but what is the difference between classes 800, 801 and 802?
 

dp21

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Sorry if this is going over old ground already covered but what is the difference between classes 800, 801 and 802?

800 is Bi-Mode IEP procured train
801 is EMU IEP procured train
802 is Bi-Mode GWR procured train with extended fuel tanks and I believe increased engine power to tackle tough gradients in Devon & Cornwall.

Hopefully I'm correct!
 

D1009

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800 is Bi-Mode IEP procured train
801 is EMU IEP procured train
802 is Bi-Mode GWR procured train with extended fuel tanks and I believe increased engine power to tackle tough gradients in Devon & Cornwall.

Hopefully I'm correct!
AIUI you are correct, except that the GWR 800s have now been forced to have larger fuel tanks and higher power due to the electrification delays, but as you say the difference between the 800 and 802 is primarily who procured them.
 

dp21

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AIUI you are correct, except that the GWR 800s have now been forced to have larger fuel tanks and higher power due to the electrification delays, but as you say the difference between the 800 and 802 is primarily who procured them.

Just in addition, I forgot to mention the 802s are also being procured for TPE and First Hull Trains however I don't know if they have the higher power/fuel capacity etc as per the GWR 802s?
 

83G/84D

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Thanks, bit confused by all the classes mentioned and the abbreviations IEP, IET and such like. Who are the TOC's receiving/ operating each class? Just GWR?
 

Harbornite

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Thanks, bit confused by all the classes mentioned and the abbreviations IEP, IET and such like. Who are the TOC's receiving/ operating each class? Just GWR?

No. Virgin East Coast will be using some 800s (with GWR using the others) and all the 801s. GWR, TPE and Hull Trains will use 802s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_801

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802

Intercity express programme is just the DFT's procurement for new trains for the ECML and GWML. Intercity Express Train is a rather irrelevant brand name for the Hitachi Super express train, of which classes 800, 801 and 802 are variants.
 

SpacePhoenix

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What happens with 2 800s when they couple if one is in diesel mode and the other in electric mode? Is there a "priority" mode that the one not in will switch to upon coupling or will they stay in different modes until the driver(s) switch them both to the same mode?
 

swt_passenger

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Thanks, bit confused by all the classes mentioned and the abbreviations IEP, IET and such like. Who are the TOC's receiving/ operating each class? Just GWR?

As well as GWR, HT, TPE as already mentioned, there is a full fleet replacement for Virgin EC; the HSTs, 91/Mk4 sets are basically replaced one for one with 9 cars, and there's a reasonable number of 5 car units to operate new services.

IEP is the overall DfT project - IET is the name used by everyone but Virgin for the trains.

Many people use IEP to refer to the trains as well.

The wiki IEP article is a reasonable read of what was originally ordered, and what has subsequently been added or changed.
 
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JN114

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What happens with 2 800s when they couple if one is in diesel mode and the other in electric mode? Is there a "priority" mode that the one not in will switch to upon coupling or will they stay in different modes until the driver(s) switch them both to the same mode?

It's probably too technical a question to be asking at this stage; given the number of drivers in the country that sign the units is in the low teens...

I would say it's very unlikely that units could ever be in different "modes" while coupled. The complete train likely assumes the mode of the unit it is being driven from - thus if you're driving a unit on diesel power and couple up to a stationary unit that's on electric; the engines will start up on the other unit when the couple button is pressed and the new configuration for the train is accepted on the TMS to get the trains in sync. Nothing to stop the driver then panning up and stopping the engines once configured accepted; or panning up and doing the couple on electric power....
 

ExTankieAaron

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It's probably too technical a question to be asking at this stage; given the number of drivers in the country that sign the units is in the low teens...

I would say it's very unlikely that units could ever be in different "modes" while coupled. The complete train likely assumes the mode of the unit it is being driven from - thus if you're driving a unit on diesel power and couple up to a stationary unit that's on electric; the engines will start up on the other unit when the couple button is pressed and the new configuration for the train is accepted on the TMS to get the trains in sync. Nothing to stop the driver then panning up and stopping the engines once configured accepted; or panning up and doing the couple on electric power....

In the scenario your talking about a 5 on diesel a 5 on pan then once coupled TMS will reboot then drop the pan. It's then up to the driver as per his instructions to start engines on other unit or stop his and raise the pan.
Even if both are in electric it will drop pan as it's configuration may be wrong so it resets. If you head off on electric you tell the TMS to do so and it'll raise both it's furthest pans.

hope that helps.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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800 is Bi-Mode IEP procured train
801 is EMU IEP procured train
802 is Bi-Mode GWR procured train with extended fuel tanks and I believe increased engine power to tackle tough gradients in Devon & Cornwall.
Hopefully I'm correct!

Strictly, the 802s were procured by FirstGroup for use by its TOCs (GWR, TPE and FHT).
There are also different performance and maintenance contracts between the various groups.
 

AlexNL

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Can the IETs also run in sets of 3?

Not that it'll be usable because of platform lengths and such, but is it technically possible?
 

jimm

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Can the IETs also run in sets of 3?

Not that it'll be usable because of platform lengths and such, but is it technically possible?

No - at least in passenger service

From the technical specification - where answers to almost all these sorts of questions can be found quite easily...

3.2 Multiple working
TS231
IEP Trains (of any type) within the following constraints;
• Up to a maximum of two IEP Units; and
• Up to a maximum total multiple length of 312m.

Page 17 at

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/82840/tts-redacted.pdf

A longer train can be formed for rescue purposes or empty stock movement only, but not more than four units and 624m length, subject to various provisos on available traction power in these circumstances - read the spec for the full details
 
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Western Lord

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Where would the logic be in using 25kV-capable 125mph units on line with a max speed of 100mph (and for long stretches quite a lot less) and no wires?

You appear not to have grasped the concept of bi-mode trains. Or do you think that GWR 800's should terminate at Newbury and everybody change to slower diesel trains for the journey west?
 

HowardGWR

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Where would the logic be in using 25kV-capable 125mph units on line with a max speed of 100mph (and for long stretches quite a lot less) and no wires?
Exeter Central to Pad via Yeovil giving Yeovil (and points west) an express service, the first for 60 years? It was a joke, although how difficult would it be to equip the 802 with third rail equipment and achieve some standardisation of inter-city type stock?
 
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Graeme

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Does anyone know what is currently outside at Newton Aycliffe today? Visited at about 1230 and saw T37 (9 car) stored near the fence, 800014 (numbers painted now) and an unidentified 5 car example next to the fence as well (no handy identifying sheets of paper stuck in the windows).

I see diggers are extending the area at the rear of the factory - creating more storage space?

Graeme
 

snowball

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From Roger Ford's email preview to his column in the July Modern Railways:

Slow progress with new trains

Building new trains is relatively straightforward. It’s getting them accepted and into reliable service that is the really difficult part. Indeed, I must add ‘nothing new works out of the box’ to the Laws.

This eternal truth is currently being rediscovered courtesy of the big-three ‘state-specified’ rolling stock contracts – Intercity Express Programme (IEP), Thameslink and Crossrail.


Acceptance of Great Western Railway’s Hitachi Class 800 bi-mode fleet has been deferred by six months because of Network Rail’s delay in commissioning Route Section 3 of the Great Western Electrification Project (GWEP). Testing between Reading and Didcot should have started in September 2015.

But RS3 wasn’t energised until July 2016, when the first runs revealed interference between the train’s traction equipment and the Overhead Line power supply, halting running. Further tests in September 2016 were no better and acceptance was halted pending a solution to the problem.

Having followed Hitachi from their first Verification Train I reckon the traction power supply is the problem, rather than the train. However, changes to the Class 800 control software have now allowed the acceptance testing programme to re-start, but with over a year of test running lost, the IEP contract has had to be revised.

Under the new programme the first train should be accepted this September. Seven Class 800 sets should then be available for the start of passenger services during October. Delivery of the Virgin Trains East Coast IEP fleet is likely to experience a knock-on delay.

He goes on to discuss the situation for Crossrail and Thamelink stock.
 

800001

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Does anyone know what is currently outside at Newton Aycliffe today? Visited at about 1230 and saw T37 (9 car) stored near the fence, 800014 (numbers painted now) and an unidentified 5 car example next to the fence as well (no handy identifying sheets of paper stuck in the windows).

I see diggers are extending the area at the rear of the factory - creating more storage space?

Graeme

The work at the rear of the building is to provide storage for Scotrail 385 units, will cover 8 or 9 roads, and should be able to have 2 carriages per road in it.
 

samuelmorris

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Delivery of the Virgin Trains East Coast IEP fleet is likely to experience a knock-on delay.

But why though? I get that it will disrupt the schedule a bit in that many of the manufactured trains will not be handed over since the testing hasn't completed, but my understanding was that the ECML wasn't proving as troublesome?
 

800001

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Does anyone know what is currently outside at Newton Aycliffe today? Visited at about 1230 and saw T37 (9 car) stored near the fence, 800014 (numbers painted now) and an unidentified 5 car example next to the fence as well (no handy identifying sheets of paper stuck in the windows).

I see diggers are extending the area at the rear of the factory - creating more storage space?

Graeme

Just been for a walk to factory, the following are those which are identifiable:-

Test Shed
Q4 - 800019
Q3 - 800018
Q2 - 800020

Yard (left - right)
Road 1 - 800014 numbered
Road 2 - nothing
Road 3 - 800015 numbered
Road 4 - 800016 un-numbered
Road 5 - 9 car electric set
Road 6 - 800017 identifiable via builders plate on bogies

Hope this helps.
 

Graeme

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Just been for a walk to factory, the following are those which are identifiable:-

Test Shed
Q4 - 800019
Q3 - 800018
Q2 - 800020

Yard (left - right)
Road 1 - 800014 numbered
Road 2 - nothing
Road 3 - 800015 numbered
Road 4 - 800016 un-numbered
Road 5 - 9 car electric set
Road 6 - 800017 identifiable via builders plate on bogies

Hope this helps.

It certainly does, thanks. I had my wife in tow and she wanted the binoculars for watching the swans and geese on the pond!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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From Roger Ford's email preview to his column in the July Modern Railways:

Sounds like it is easier to tweak the 800 software than the Series 1 power supplies.
It looks like the acceptance time lost just about matches the delay in infrastructure being ready (Paddington-Didcot).
Presumably the IEPs could be accepted on diesel, but that would not suit anybody at Hitachi or the DfT.
That's assuming the interference is at the OHLE interface rather than the traction motors which are common to both modes.
 

alphaomega

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Sorry if this has been covered already, do we know when we will see the first class 800s in service from GWR? I heard July time but would be interested if there are more specifics so I can book a ticket and see what it's like.
 
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