GWR Class 800

[Nippy]

Yes, thanks. I was talking about the NP to Stoke Gifford run in the posts immediately above my post.

 

[leomartin125]

I note from RTT there is a 5X80 North Pole to Stoke Gifford tonight, which doesn't appear to be running. Presumably had it run, by process of elimination it would have been 800004.

800101 is not at the factory... it's at North Pole IEP Depot. 800004 couldn't have operated to Stoke Gifford as it's at Stoke Gifford and has been for a while. Had an IEP have gone to Stoke Gifford, I would bet bottom dollar it's 800101.

 

[Noddy]

800101 is not at the factory... it's at North Pole IEP Depot. 800004 couldn't have operated to Stoke Gifford as it's at Stoke Gifford and has been for a while. Had an IEP have gone to Stoke Gifford, I would bet bottom dollar it's 800101.

I would suggest looking at the photographic evidence in post 3051 and then read the thread.

 

[800001]

800101 is not at the factory... it's at North Pole IEP Depot. 800004 couldn't have operated to Stoke Gifford as it's at Stoke Gifford and has been for a while. Had an IEP have gone to Stoke Gifford, I would bet bottom dollar it's 800101.

800101 was 100% at Aycliffe yesterday, it also ran to Stevenage and back last night..

 

[Nippy]

800101 went north from NP on Tuesday evening.

 

[D1009]

5X80 didn't run. An additional 5X87 ran from North Pole to Slough and back as 5X95. This ran on AC power between Ladbroke Grove and Hayes each way.

Any idea which set?

 

[Nippy]

Pretty sure it was 800002.

 

[leomartin125]

800101 went north from NP on Tuesday evening.

Apologies, that is correct. Three sets at Newton Aycliffe now (800001, 800003 and 800101) with 800004 at Stoke Gifford and 800002 is the sole IEP at North Pole IEP Depot now.

 

[superkev]

Such a shame that such expensive asserts have yet to earn a penny in passenger service. How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.
Perhaps at lesst some enthusiasts specials to provide some priceless in service debugging.
K

 

[D365]

How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.

You've got to be pulling my leg.

Is it just me, or are engineers here regarded almost like scum?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Such a shame that such expensive asserts have yet to earn a penny in passenger service. How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.
Perhaps at lesst some enthusiasts specials to provide some priceless in service debugging.
K

And if they were introduced and failed across KX throat in the peak?

Or ripped down the OHLE? Or interfered with safe signalling operation? Hit a bridge?

These are very new trains and different to a lot before them.

 

[ainsworth74]

Is it just me, or are engineers here regarded almost like scum?

I like them!

 

[D365]

I like them!

Glad to hear. I apologise for sounding angry, just I'm hearing Thameslink engineers get a lot of flack in the Class 700 discussion. The vast majority of us just want to do the best job possible.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

These are very new trains and different to a lot before them.

There's got to be some tech shared between them and the Javelins

 

[47802]

Such a shame that such expensive asserts have yet to earn a penny in passenger service. How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.
Perhaps at lesst some enthusiasts specials to provide some priceless in service debugging.
K

This makes me laugh, how many on here would complaining on here if they proved to be unreliable in service, and don't forget this a highly complex train that needs to be tested on both Diesel and Electric. Lets also not forget how far behind GW electrification is and that the initial IEP version isn't really designed to run the whole route on Diesel.

 

[D365]

There's got to be some tech shared between them and the Javelins

It's not just the onboard equipment that needs to be tested...

 

[superalbs]

If the testing isn't heavy enough, then we may have another Fyra V250 on our hands.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If they had 3rd rail ability added, would they draw much more power then what a class 444 would?

 

[jimm]

Such a shame that such expensive asserts have yet to earn a penny in passenger service. How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.
Perhaps at lesst some enthusiasts specials to provide some priceless in service debugging.
K

There's nothing new about a long development and testing programme for trains.

HST prototype power cars and Mk3s built 1972, tested by engineers until May 1975 when it entered passenger service on the Western Region. Production HSTs entered passenger service in the autumn of 1976.

Class 800 first prototype built late 2014, arrived in UK in March 2015 after initial tests in Japan. Entry of trains into passenger service planned for summer 2017.

Hitachi have no interest in 'in-service debugging'. They are aiming to get bug-free trains into service from day one to comply with their contract with the government, hence the test programme.

 

[Domh245]

If they had 3rd rail ability added, would they draw much more power then what a class 444 would?

They would want to draw more power than a 444, but they would almost certainly be software limited.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

If the testing isn't heavy enough, then we may have another Fyra V250 on our hands.

equally do Hitachi want a Ericcsson W910i or Samsun Note 7 scenario ...

 

[D365]

If they had 3rd rail ability added, would they draw much more power then what a class 444 would?

After "Can the 442s be converted to LHCS", third rail conversion of the IEPs has to be one of the most-asked questions on this forum :roll:

 

[themiller]

Such a shame that such expensive asserts have yet to earn a penny in passenger service. How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.
Perhaps at lesst some enthusiasts specials to provide some priceless in service debugging.
K

As long as they're ready for service on the contracted date, I can't see a problem. Hitachi have planned their introduction for then and are being prudent in thoroughly testing the first ones off the production lines. Presumably subsequent units will get less testing as Hitachi will gain confidence in their product as deliveries progress. You just need to be patient!

 

[swt_passenger]

After "Can the 442s be converted to LHCS", third rail conversion of the IEPs has to be one of the most-asked questions on this forum :roll:

If <insert random rolling stock type> hasn't got <insert random feature>, you can always rely on SpacePhoenix to quickly suggest adding, removing, gutting, rewiring, stretching, shortening* delete as appropriate.

This rule must apply to even the newest stock, such as 800s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Such a shame that such expensive asserts have yet to earn a penny in passenger service. How many tests can the engineers do on a train to take literally years.
Perhaps at lesst some enthusiasts specials to provide some priceless in service debugging.
K

Not sure any of the test trains are complete for passenger service (eg seats, catering equipment, PIS etc).
They may not yet be certified with GW ATP which is a prerequisite for passenger service.
These early units are likely to need modifications/upgrade as a result of the testing programme, and will be recycled back through the factory before passenger use.
That's also why the production programme has a slow ramp up, to allow mods to be applied before they are rolled out for service.
Just like what happens to a new aircraft type.
And anyway, there aren't enough GW wires yet (they are not designed or contracted as diesel-only trains).

PS The ''expensive assets'' belong to Hitachi/Agility and won't be costing the TOCs anything until the service contract starts.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Not sure any of the test trains are complete for passenger service (eg seats, catering equipment, PIS etc).
They may not yet be certified with GW ATP which is a prerequisite for passenger service.
These early units are likely to need modifications/upgrade as a result of the testing programme, and will be recycled back through the factory before passenger use.
That's also why the production programme has a slow ramp up, to allow mods to be applied before they are rolled out for service.
Just like what happens to a new aircraft type.
And anyway, there aren't enough GW wires yet (they are not designed or contracted as diesel-only trains).

PS The ''expensive assets'' belong to Hitachi/Agility and won't be costing the TOCs anything until the service contract starts.

But they're designed to come into service from May, whereas the wires to Didcot aren't due to be operational until 7 months later. How is that compatible with a service designed for 125mph operation? Even after the wires to Didcot have entered service this will still cause problems for 125mph running west of there.

Surely it makes much more sense to deploy a full fleet on the ECML, with GWML trains not entering service until not long before OHLE commissioning to Cardiff in December 2018? The ECML power supply upgrade enters into service next August anyway.

 

[abn444]

But they're designed to come into service from May, whereas the wires to Didcot aren't due to be operational until 7 months later. How is that compatible with a service designed for 125mph operation? Even after the wires to Didcot have entered service this will still cause problems for 125mph running west of there.

Surely it makes much more sense to deploy a full fleet on the ECML, with GWML trains not entering service until not long before OHLE commissioning to Cardiff in December 2018? The ECML power supply upgrade enters into service next August anyway.

I thought that they would be only be electronically limited to 100mph in diesel mode to reduce wear on the engine, so surely if there electrification is not completed sufficiently by then, they can just turn the limiter off until it is completed sufficiently?

 

[TheKnightWho]

I thought that they would be only be electronically limited to 100mph in diesel mode to reduce wear on the engine, so surely if there electrification is not completed sufficiently by then, they can just turn the limiter off until it is completed sufficiently?

Which increases the cost due to the more intensive maintenance regime required. Introducing on the ECML first would seem to require no additional cost, especially given there would be a slow roll-out, and so the power supply upgrade due in August would be complete long before the full fleet were operational.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But they're designed to come into service from May, whereas the wires to Didcot aren't due to be operational until 7 months later. How is that compatible with a service designed for 125mph operation? Even after the wires to Didcot have entered service this will still cause problems for 125mph running west of there.

Surely it makes much more sense to deploy a full fleet on the ECML, with GWML trains not entering service until not long before OHLE commissioning to Cardiff in December 2018? The ECML power supply upgrade enters into service next August anyway.

GWR and VTEC have different contracts with Agility, the trains have different internal specs, the HSTs to be cascaded are on different leases, VTEC are not ready, the franchise terms have been set.

 

[cactustwirly]

Perhaps if they were introduced on Worcester/Hereford services first where 125mph west of Reading doesn't really matter, then Bristol/Cheletenham services after that when wires to Swindon are completed