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GWR Class 800

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jimm

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Network Rail are warning of strong winds in the Dawlish area ( and consequent disruptions to Cross-Country). Will this train actually run? If it does, it will certainly test the AT300's suitability for the route.

As discussed somewhere back up this thread, the designers were made well aware of potential issues with rheostatic brakes (as a result of the problems with Voyagers at Dawlish) and DfT wrote the following into the technical specification:

From page 24

TS1983
Full functionality of the IEP trains must be maintained during and after exposure to salt water spray and such exposure must not cause excessive cosmetic degradation of exposed surfaces, components and equipment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/82840/tts-redacted.pdf
 

fgwrich

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Sounds like it's picked up the squealing brakes syndrome from the 180s!

[youtube]zpgUtgjdxnk[/youtube]
 

TRAX

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Squealing brakes are typical for most new trains now (at least on the Continent)
 

najaB

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I'm seriously impressed by how much quieter it seemed than the Voyager. It actually got *less* noisy when it arrived and it was closer to the camera than the Voyager.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

fgwrich

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I'm seriously impressed by how much quieter it seemed than the Voyager. It actually got *less* noisy when it arrived and it was closer to the camera than the Voyager.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

That I will give them credit for. I spoke to MTU at one of the trade fairs a few years ago about it (co-incidentally there was a Cummins stand 2 stands down with MAN sandwiched in between!) and they said they wanted them to sound absolutely nothing like Cummins lumps!
 

83G/84D

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Well last night 800101 made it's final voyage to Plymouth as 5X30:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97141/2016/10/07/advanced

Before making a long journey back home to North Pole IEP Depot where it now rests as 5X31:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97134/2016/10/08/advanced

Meanwhile 800004 is at Stoke Gifford IEP Depot, presumably for further comissioning work and testing.

I know there were paths created for a run every night this week but how many times did it run to Plymouth?
 

leomartin125

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I know there were paths created for a run every night this week but how many times did it run to Plymouth?

It operated down to Plymouth on Monday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night and Friday night before returning to North Pole IEP Depot early this morning from Plymouth. That's four times this week.
 

samuelmorris

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That I will give them credit for. I spoke to MTU at one of the trade fairs a few years ago about it (co-incidentally there was a Cummins stand 2 stands down with MAN sandwiched in between!) and they said they wanted them to sound absolutely nothing like Cummins lumps!

Thing is, most of that is down to the absurdly high idle speed - they must waste so much fuel being configured like that. Common to the 180s and 185s as well as Voyagers, so must be an issue with that engine design rather than the transmission/train itself. Not something that affected the 170s or 172s, or indeed any other DMU engine I can think of.
 

ac6000cw

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That I will give them credit for. I spoke to MTU at one of the trade fairs a few years ago about it (co-incidentally there was a Cummins stand 2 stands down with MAN sandwiched in between!) and they said they wanted them to sound absolutely nothing like Cummins lumps!

Given that the Cummins QSK19 is an in-line 6 cylinder engine and the MTU 12V1600R80L is a V12 it would be hard to make them sound similar anyway...

A better comparison would be between the Cummins NTA855R under the 158s and the MTU 6R 183TD under the 168s/170s (similar configurations and power output).
 

superkev

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Given that the Cummins QSK19 is an in-line 6 cylinder engine and the MTU 12V1600R80L is a V12 it would be hard to make them sound similar anyway...

A better comparison would be between the Cummins NTA855R under the 158s and the MTU 6R 183TD under the 168s/170s (similar configurations and power output).
Pity they couldn't find a flat engine of sufficientl power for the 800's to avoid the step up.
I always thought a horizontal opposed engine rather than a vee would suit . Pity no one seems to make one.
K
 

leomartin125

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Was that the first run of one from Taunton to Reading via the B&H?

Indeed, not one Class 800 has ever ventured South of Bristol before last week, and then not one had ever made use of the Taunton to Reading line via Bedywn, so that's a first too.
 

TheKnightWho

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Pity they couldn't find a flat engine of sufficientl power for the 800's to avoid the step up.
I always thought a horizontal opposed engine rather than a vee would suit . Pity no one seems to make one.
K

It's a barely noticeable hump, not a step up.
 

fgwrich

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It's a double step up into the train for the coaches with engines I believe. Certainly not a level floor.

I believe it's a step into the vehicle anyway - There's one there, about 8-10 cm I think but it's not as severe as the Voyager family, then there's a gentle ramp up of the vehicle floor above the engine. The electric cars are said to be totally flat inside, but still have the step into the vehicle.
 

Domh245

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I believe it's a step into the vehicle anyway - There's one there, about 8-10 cm I think but it's not as severe as the Voyager family, then there's a gentle ramp up of the vehicle floor above the engine. The electric cars are said to be totally flat inside, but still have the step into the vehicle.

The driving cars are flat floored. All intermediate vehicles, whether they have a diesel engine underneath them or not, have a common body shell with the raised floor section
 

fgwrich

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The driving cars are flat floored. All intermediate vehicles, whether they have a diesel engine underneath them or not, have a common body shell with the raised floor section

That's what I was thinking of, Thanks!

All in all though, I wonder how fun these ramps will make pushing a catering trolley through the train. They wont be that steep considering it's a 26m vehicle, but those catering trolleys can be heavy.

Of course the least best seats to use in the 800s will remain as the ones by the vestibule doors, underneath the air conditioning unit, by the start of the ramp with no windows and arm rests due to the additional interior space required for the door pockets. It's not that I don't understand Hitachi's design at the time not to use the more conventional (In Europe at least) plug door design, it's that they slide into the passenger saloon than the ends of the vehicles. But it's a problem that's sadly too late to be altered and something we'll have to live with.

Do we know if any of the timing data - or even realtime trains links are available to view - I'm thinking Performance wise of the 800 up the Devon banks, seeing as there were a few concerns about how they'll cope up Dainton & Hemerdon banks.
 

The Ham

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I believe it's a step into the vehicle anyway - There's one there, about 8-10 cm I think but it's not as severe as the Voyager family, then there's a gentle ramp up of the vehicle floor above the engine. The electric cars are said to be totally flat inside, but still have the step into the vehicle.

8-10 cm would (IIRC) would be less than the much loved 442s as well, but that's not going to stop some trying to find fault with them before they have even been in one.
 

Dave1987

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No, this is a myth that has been repeatedly dispelled. I don't know why you keep spreading it. fgwrich is correct.

Well I'm sure I saw it quoted in a magazine that it was a double step into the coaches with engines. The slope is only between the end driving cars with the low floors and the coaches with engines. The floor throughout the middle of the train is at a continuous height. That's why dwell times are going to be similar to what they are today because of the double step.
 

TheKnightWho

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Well I'm sure I saw it quoted in a magazine that it was a double step into the coaches with engines. The slope is only between the end driving cars with the low floors and the coaches with engines. The floor throughout the middle of the train is at a continuous height. That's why dwell times are going to be similar to what they are today because of the double step.

I've already seen you be corrected on this before. It doesn't matter what you saw in a magazine when you've already been shown pictures of the interior.
 

Bletchleyite

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Even if it was the case (I agree it isn't), steps don't make a huge difference to dwell time. Pendolinos have a high step - the main thing for me is that it's wide enough to put your foot on, unlike the narrow stepboards on a lot of EMUs in particular. It's not like we are talking about European-style low platforms with 2 or 3 steps up that do slow things a bit due to having to heave bags up to almost chest level (at the lowest platforms).

As regards the narrow seats by the vestibule doors, if I was the designer I'd have gone for an offset door and 2+1 in that row, like the GWR HSTs have in the TGS at the guard's van end. Then they could have been full width, and that 1 seat might have proven quite popular! :)
 

SpacePhoenix

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Just looking at 444s and 450s the 444s seem to have wider step boards than the 450s. Do longer coaches (444s, 800s, etc) generally always have wider stepboards?
 

Bletchleyite

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Just looking at 444s and 450s the 444s seem to have wider step boards than the 450s.

Because they are narrower, I expect. (450 is 2.796m wide, 444 is 2.673m wide, a difference of just over 12cm).

Do longer coaches (444s, 800s, etc) generally always have wider stepboards?

Not sure. They are quite narrow on 156s, for example, and relatively wide on Voyagers and (folding type step) Pendolinos - the latter are I think the longest UK rail vehicles before the 800s - despite people referring to them as 23m vehicles the intermediates are actually nearly 24m and the end vehicles just over 25m.

You also get other loading gauge based variations - Merseyrail 50x have wider stepboards than South East PEPs (at many stations they protrude over the platform edge, meaning there is no gap to mind), and GWR 16x stepboards would be out of gauge if the units were used elsewhere - they have to be removed if the units are moved off the GWR.
 
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