GWR Class 800

[class26]

As it is 30 more trains (less the 5 for hull trains), rather than the worst case assumption I had made i my point about there being a follow on order (which the Voyagers never had), makes the likelihood of lots of full trains running around even less likely than some posters have feared.

As Hull Trains are an Open Access operator surely they will not be able to avail themselves of these options ? Or am I not understanding something ? I would have thought the options are available to the DFT for various franchises and the DFT has no say in what Open Access operators run.

 

[Domh245]

The order for the SW AT300s was placed by First Group, not the DfT so those options are available to any first group franchise/scheme that wants to use them.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The order for the SW AT300s was placed by First Group, not the DfT so those options are available to any first group franchise/scheme that wants to use them.

The options were agreed as part of the whole contract, which was subject to Department for Transport agreement. The options will be available via DfT to any franchisee. If/when the options are taken up, they'll be handled by the Great Western franchisee, in much the same way the Class 387 order for Great Western makes use of options originally agreed to as part of the initial Southern order.

The reality of the situation is that DfT and Network Rail do not want incompatible stock with different acceleration and braking profiles on the ECML wasting capacity and causing pathing/timetabling problems, so will almost certainly sanction the use of these options by Hull Trains, Grand Central and in the fullness of time, by Virgin Trains East Coast, to allow the remaining IC225 sets to be withdrawn from use on the route.

 

[jopsuk]

The reality of the situation is that DfT and Network Rail do not want incompatible stock with different acceleration and braking profiles on the ECML wasting capacity and causing pathing/timetabling problems, so will almost certainly sanction the use of these options by Hull Trains, Grand Central and in the fullness of time, by Virgin Trains East Coast, to allow the remaining IC225 sets to be withdrawn from use on the route.

GC are are taking on the FGW 180s (contract is signed) and in all likelihood if they have further expansion will take the HT 180s.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

GC are are taking on the FGW 180s (contract is signed) and in all likelihood if they have further expansion will take the HT 180s.

That's all up in the air with the plans for 140mph operation, which could rule out 125mph stock on the fast lines or provide only very limited pathing options for them.

 

[HSTEd]

How about top and tailing a ten car Mark 4 set with a pair of Class 91s?
That would give it performance that would be meteoric compared to now and probably superior to a 1+5 formation - without wasting that train length.
It would still be short enough to fit in all nine main line platforms at King's Cross (would be roughly 270m long)

If we were to accept a restriction to only platforms 0 and 1 and maybe 2 we could have an eleventh Mark 4. Such formations would be able to terminate in at least two platforms at Newcastle [2, 3 ]and three platforms at Leeds [8, 11, 12].
Would probably require SDO fitting though.

Even so, 15 sets of 10-cars out of the existing fleet allows reuse of a lot of the vehicles, especially if some of the first class and buffet vehicles get sent to Night Riviera to replace their Mark 3s.

Probably cheaper to operate than twice as many 91+5+DVT formations - just put them on the higher demand routes in lieu of a 9-car IEP.

 

[notadriver]

That wouldn't be very efficient and the overhead line equipment may not sustain a pair class 91s drawing that kind of current.

 

[po8crg]

Hull Trains have announced their intention to order five bi-mode five-car AT300s.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...o-order-hitachi-electro-diesel-trainsets.html

 

[Wolfie]

It's called being able to provide enough seats so passengers aren't standing. Not the attitude of we might have a few spare seats if we ran a full length train so will only run 5 cars and accept that some people will have to stand. Yes there are some services that will be fine with a 5 car but if you have a blanket attitude of all off peak services will be fine with a 5 car then you will have overcrowding and people standing. That seems to be perfectly acceptable in you eyes though.

In a "finance unlimited" world such an approach might, although wasteful, have some merit. In the world of contrained resources we are actually in what would you wish to sacrifice (train frequency, closure of lesser used stations and/or lines?) in order to reach this utopian nirvana?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Strictly, I think the future AT300 options will be held by Eversholt Rail, who are financing the purchase from Hitachi.
I haven't seen whether the deal is like the previous class 800/801 order, which supplies FGW with diagrams rather than sets.
I think all the DfT did was to endorse the deal as a business case for the franchise.
I don't believe they got involved commercially with the purchase.

 

[IanXC]

Hull Trains have announced their intention to order five bi-mode five-car AT300s.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...o-order-hitachi-electro-diesel-trainsets.html

I've posted a separate thread for the implications for HT: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=120241

 

[Eliottjames]

Just came across this image on twitter, is this going to be the new Virgin livery?

 

[WatcherZero]

Strictly, I think the future AT300 options will be held by Eversholt Rail, who are financing the purchase from Hitachi.
I haven't seen whether the deal is like the previous class 800/801 order, which supplies FGW with diagrams rather than sets.
I think all the DfT did was to endorse the deal as a business case for the franchise.
I don't believe they got involved commercially with the purchase.

I think its sets rather than diagrams but they will be maintained by Hitachi.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The AT300 options sit with First Group Rail Division who procured the initial 29 units and arranged the finance deal for them with Eversholt. Option orders allow owning groups to dial in stock to meet emerging commercial opportunities, especially open access ones.

The DfT were not directly involved in the procurement process and have no say over where the option units go. They had to give final approval for the GW units and obviously any "franchise" units have to be leased through that franchise to satisfy them. And if the DfT want to lease any more units for, say GW, I don't think FG will say no!

 

[CLH]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0681rw9/look-north-north-east-and-cumbria-03092015

One today's Look North, the Hitachi plant opening was their top story.

 

[Skimble19]

Just came across this image on twitter, is this going to be the new Virgin livery?

I wouldn't have thought so!

 

[Haydn1971]

Is white the new base colour for all new trains ? The first Class 700 & 800's were delivered in white, but given that GW are moving to a dark green livery, will that be provided using green overlay films rather than painting the units ? This would allow greater fleet flexibility on franchise changes and for short term borrows, but would be more susceptible to damage.

 

[Yorkshireguy]

Just came across this image on twitter, is this going to be the new Virgin livery?

It looks like it's giving the impression of currently being painted into a fully red livery to try and promote everyone involved. Hard to word, but it's probably just me.

 

[159220]

Just came across this image on twitter, is this going to be the new Virgin livery?

I think you might find it to be Agility Trains branding who own and lease the trains to GWR and Virgin EC:

http://www.agilitytrains.com/

 

[TheNewNo2]

Just came across this image on twitter, is this going to be the new Virgin livery?

I doubt it, I expect this is just a promotional livery to use for the factory opening.

My initial thoughts on it were that it looked like someone tried to colour it in with felt tip pens, but ran out of ink halfway through. But it's rather growing on me.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its the lighting that makes it look half painted, its indeed Hitachi livery and features a criss cross pattern of red lines, not that dissimilar to the Edinburgh tram livery but thicker straight lines.

 

[Snapper]

You'll find more pictures from the event at Newton Aycliffe here: http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p665399630

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'll find more pictures from the event at Newton Aycliffe here: http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p665399630

Ugh, that livery is ugly beyond belief. Suspect it won't be the final one though.

 

[Dave1987]

From the pictures of Newton Aycliffe it looks more like a light maintenance depot or storage facility than a factory that is going to be assembling trains.

 

[Stompehh]

From the pictures of Newton Aycliffe it looks more like a light maintenance depot or storage facility than a factory that is going to be assembling trains.

What makes you say that?

 

[455driver]

From the pictures of Newton Aycliffe it looks more like a light maintenance depot or storage facility than a factory that is going to be assembling trains.

It doesn't have to be that big to bolt the handrails on and fit the seats!

 

[Dave1987]

What makes you say that?

Well apart from a bit of staging and some rails it's essentially a warehouse!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It doesn't have to be that big to bolt the handrails on and fit the seats!

Indeed!

 

[jopsuk]

What would make it look more like a "factory" in your view? It'll have overhead cranes. a warehouse with tracks and staging is what a final assembly line is. Conceptually no different to eg the Airbus assembly plant in Toulouse, or Boeing's 737 plant. I suppose one key difference with a rail one is that more of the staging can be fixed in location.

 

[Class 170101]

Presumably some seats will also be gained by not having a DVT and
locomotive - in a similar way to the Pendolinos.

 

[D365]

Presumably some seats will also be gained by not having a DVT and
locomotive - in a similar way to the Pendolinos.

In so much as that it [no loco/DVT vehicles] allows for longer carriages to be used without needing significant platform extensions.