GWR Class 800

[Bikeman78]

As has been explained back up the thread a few times now, as a result of the contracts for the 800s, GWR has far less flexibility than it did when it was running the HSTs and 180s and controlling the maintenance as well. They can make adjustments but when they are required to hand back 800s at the depots at specific times each night there are bound to be more headaches to deal with than in the past when juggling diagrams.

There has to be some leeway. Hitachi cannot expect every unit to turn up at the correct depot bang on time if, for example, there is a fatality between Reading and Paddington. Whatever the finer details of the contract, I certainly wouldn't want to be in GWR control right now!

 

[43096]

But the way they were bought and are contracted for use is beyond ridiculous.

Apparently Hitachi are paid 50% of the fee regardless of whether they provide a train or not, at least for the first few years of the contract. Theoretically, Hitachi are incentivised to get rid of all their staff, park the trains on the depot and watch the cash roll in for doing nothing for the next few years.

I wouldn't use the word "ridiculous" (although it is), so much as "scandalous".

 

[Mintona]

SN.105 on Line 1 has been approach released for nearly a year now due to a problem with the Preliminary Route Indicator associated with the signal. Pre the 'upgrade' to IECC Scalable, if we placed a reminder on SN.105, ARS would route to Line 2 giving greens throughout, now it just stops trains at the Signal in rear. If we aren't busy we will manually route to Line 2 around the problem, if we are then we leave it to ARS resulting in the slow departure from Padd. Trust me, we are frustrated by these long standing faults. The other day, there was also a 20mph EROS on the Up Main just ahead of SN.120 signal at Ladbroke Grove. This was on for a few days, and removed on Sunday morning

I was wondering what the reason for this was, it’s quite frustrating. I just presumed it was a glitch in the ARS. It’s common to go over to line 2 at the gantry before, I didn’t realise that was you guys sorting it out manually.

 

[Wychwood93]

I was wondering what the reason for this was, it’s quite frustrating. I just presumed it was a glitch in the ARS. It’s common to go over to line 2 at the gantry before, I didn’t realise that was you guys sorting it out manually.

Just watched the 1C98 2103 PAD-PLY (Plymouth) coming out of PAD on RTT and Open Train Times and see what you mean re. SN105 - greens before and after, whilst the 2T65 to Heathrow scooted ahead on the relief. The latter 3 minutes to pass Ladbroke Grove compared to 4 3/4 for the former.

 

[Railperf]

Just watched the 1C98 2103 PAD-PLY (Plymouth) coming out of PAD on RTT and Open Train Times and see what you mean re. SN105 - greens before and after, whilst the 2T65 to Heathrow scooted ahead on the relief. The latter 3 minutes to pass Ladbroke Grove compared to 4 3/4 for the former.

Thanks for the insight....very interesting..

I wish my services on Saturday had been routed via Line 2, instead, at least two of mine were routed up the relief line - being switched to the up main beyond Acton Main Line, with the crazy situation that the following HEX was pulling up alongside on the up main.

 

[Nippy]

It was to try and prevent queues through the EROS which also had an ATP issue requiring a caution.

 

[Railperf]

It was to try and prevent queues through the EROS which also had an ATP issue requiring a caution.

Ah. Thanks again for the insight. I was also on the 20:03 which was routed via 1 and had to endure the 20mph ERS resulting in a minutes time loss to Ealing Broadway.

 

[Railperf]

SN.105 on Line 1 has been approach released for nearly a year now due to a problem with the Preliminary Route Indicator associated with the signal. Pre the 'upgrade' to IECC Scalable, if we placed a reminder on SN.105, ARS would route to Line 2 giving greens throughout, now it just stops trains at the Signal in rear. If we aren't busy we will manually route to Line 2 around the problem, if we are then we leave it to ARS resulting in the slow departure from Padd. Trust me, we are frustrated by these long standing faults. The other day, there was also a 20mph EROS on the Up Main just ahead of SN.120 signal at Ladbroke Grove. This was on for a few days, and removed on Sunday morning

Is there a planned resolution to this? Another question... how does ARS deal with early / late running. Does it set the routes based on timing/ train position / or a combination of both?

 

[Railperf]

It was to try and prevent queues through the EROS which also had an ATP issue requiring a caution.

Was there a problem at Airport Jn on the down main on Saturday, i'm sure a couple of services i was on seemed to be delayed by a red signal even though the HEX was well ahead!

 

[Thunderer]

Apparently Hitachi are paid 50% of the fee regardless of whether they provide a train or not, at least for the first few years of the contract. Theoretically, Hitachi are incentivised to get rid of all their staff, park the trains on the depot and watch the cash roll in for doing nothing for the next few years.

I wouldn't use the word "ridiculous" (although it is), so much as "scandalous".

As soon as I saw years ago the IEP project was Government driven, I knew it would be a disaster. History shows Government meddling with the railways never ends with a successful outcome. Now we have 2 fleets (800/802) both different sizes (5 and 9 car) that theoretically are not operationally interchangeable (i.e. Step up at Padd so an 802 works to Swansea and an 800 to Penzance). We are now having full size trains substituted for 5 car trains (with only 3.5 coaches of standard accomodation) and above all, no flexibility with this Agility contract for the operator. This combined with a half arsed, over running and very expensive electrification project, makes the whole project a total shambles. 2 peak services out of South Wales this morning, 1L38 and 1L42, both 5 car! I feel sorry for GWR as they had little say in this and are now left trying to run a service with these new trains and their contractual and operational limitations. If the DFT had a brain, then there was no need sprnd billions to electrify the GWML just to save 15 mins off Swansea to London (which incidentally matches the 1987 timetable). The world beating design was right there infront of them, the HST. Just re-design the HST to bring it into the 21st century (no slam doors, toilet retention tanks etc) saving billions on electrification and new and over complicated trains, no delays caused by electrification work or driver training. Lastly, build the new fleet all one size 9 cars. Hey presto, a quality train that can work any GWML diagram without a fuss or lack of capacity. Cue the usual comments "9 cars are not always needed off peak" to which I say, well, make Rail Travel more attractive and affordable off peak. All our roads are choking with too many vehicles, so it makes no sense that a train should run half empty at any time of the day, promote rail travel and get people off our congested mororways and back on to the train. Anyone who thinks the IEP project has been a success or is a great improvement must be deluded (or working for Hitachi/DFT)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly, IEP did start off as a concept for "HST2" - power cars, unpowered (26m) trailers, diesel only - and evolved into something very different.

 

[SamYeager]

History shows Government meddling with the railways never ends with a successful outcome.

Sadly the RMT appears to believe that more Government involvement is better.

 

[Nippy]

Was there a problem at Airport Jn on the down main on Saturday, i'm sure a couple of services i was on seemed to be delayed by a red signal even though the HEX was well ahead!

I have messaged you.

 

[3973EXL]

5X80 Doncaster - Acton
5X82 Acton - Eastleigh
800301


Poor photo grabbed as it passed.

 

[JN114]

Might be of interest to the bean counters.....

****

IETs not available for traffic 23 Nov 2018:

800008
800032

802001
802013

802101


IETs with restrictive faults 23 Nov 2018:

800001 - Diesel Only
800002 - Diesel Only
800006 - Non DOO
800006 - GU isolated
800016 - GU isolated
800023 - Diesel Only
800029 - Diesel Only
800030 - Diesel Only
800031 - Diesel Only
800034 - GU isolated

800302 - GU isolated
800306 - Non DOO
800308 - GU isolated
800308 - Diesel Only
800316 - GU isolated

802001 - Diesel Only
802002 - Multi Only
802008 - Non Multi
802017 - Multi Only
802018 - Non Multi

Short/Mis-formed IET services 23 Nov 18
NP054 5v9 1L34 1C11 1A18 1C20 1A29
NP118/120 9v10 1L24 1B22 1L60 1B51 1L94

 

[Pete_uk]

Quite a few then.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Might be of interest to the bean counters.....

****

IETs not available for traffic 23 Nov 2018:

800008
800032

802001
802013

802101


IETs with restrictive faults 23 Nov 2018:

800001 - Diesel Only
800002 - Diesel Only
800006 - Non DOO
800006 - GU isolated
800016 - GU isolated
800023 - Diesel Only
800029 - Diesel Only
800030 - Diesel Only
800031 - Diesel Only
800034 - GU isolated

800302 - GU isolated
800306 - Non DOO
800308 - GU isolated
800308 - Diesel Only
800316 - GU isolated

802001 - Diesel Only
802002 - Multi Only
802008 - Non Multi
802017 - Multi Only
802018 - Non Multi

Short/Mis-formed IET services 23 Nov 18
NP054 5v9 1L34 1C11 1A18 1C20 1A29
NP118/120 9v10 1L24 1B22 1L60 1B51 1L94

Thank you for this list. Just out of curiosity what does the GU refer to for those units with GU isolated?

 

[Railperf]

How many units available with no restrictions?

 

[FGW_DID]

Thank you for this list. Just out of curiosity what does the GU refer to for those units with GU isolated?

Generator/ Generating Unit.

 

[TractiveEffort]

800001 & 800002 aren’t ‘sold’ yet so have the pantographs locked out by the test team, no reason to suspect that when they are handed over, that they will have a restriction.

 

[samuelmorris]

Heh, time for me to experience the shortform situation first hand then.

Interesting that the 802s have multi / non-multi faults that haven't shown up on the 800s. I wonder why that is?

Thanks for the very useful list!

 

[Railperf]

Generator/ Generating Unit.

What do you mean in other words is that they have an engine out? Or 2, 3 etc?,

 

[samuelmorris]

That or the generator itself. Anything that leaves one power unit unusable I imagine.

 

[theblackwatch]

I didn't realise 802013/017/018 were actually in traffic, does anyone know the dates they entered passenger service?

 

[TractiveEffort]

I didn't realise 802013/017/018 were actually in traffic, does anyone know the dates they entered passenger service?

802013/15/17/18 were accepted on 16/11

 

[Railperf]

How many sets should be available?
Which 800's and 802's have been accepted for service?

 

[TractiveEffort]

Heh, time for me to experience the shortform situation first hand then.

Interesting that the 802s have multi / non-multi faults that haven't shown up on the 800s. I wonder why that is?

Thanks for the very useful list!

The list is out of date, 802008 hasn’t got a restriction on it, nor has 800006, 800016.

 

[theblackwatch]

802013/15/17/18 were accepted on 16/11

Many thanks.

How many sets should be available?
Which 800's and 802's have been accepted for service?

Not sure about 800s, but I think it's 802003-012 plus the 4 mentioned above which have been accepted.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Many thanks.
Not sure about 800s, but I think it's 802003-012 plus the 4 mentioned above which have been accepted.

Of the total fleet, the following have been accepted;

800003-32, 800303-10/3-8.
802001-12/3/5/7/8, 802101. 802001/2 are the regular driver training units.

Due for acceptance shortly are 800311/9 (the latter could already have been), 800001/2 (limited acceptance for training) and 802014/9/21/2.

By the time OOC closes, 802102/3 and 802016/20 should also have been accepted.

 

[samuelmorris]

So another journey on a GWR 800 today pretty much sees me admit to the rest of the criticisms I'd not yet observed first-hand with the units. Yes I didn't find the seat comfortable (though I actually find the shape of the back and the hardness of the cover worse than the lack of padding on the base) but nothing new there. The PIS display is really flickery, I don't know how I didn't notice that before - that's really quite bad and, honestly, probably almost as bad as I've seen functional PIS displays get (the bottom being the ones used on 465s), faulty ones notwithstanding. Fortunately it is still legible and you don't need to spend too long looking at it as it's in a relatively unobtrusive place for most passengers. If I was in the seat adjacent to it and facing it, though, that'd drive me nuts after a while.

The seat next to me was heavily stained, the unit I was travelling on was one of the first in service (800003) but still, that's quite a lot of muck for one year's service considering seats on the early 345s still largely look immaculate. The power sockets went off while the driver changed ends, not something I remember happening on other stock (clearly the whole train seems to reboot as the A/C goes off during that time too) and the grounding (or lack thereof) on them is really noticeable, I haven't had that 'fuzzy ground' feeling so pronounced on my laptop before, and I've been using this model for 2 years now. Seat reservations were not in use because the train was shortformed. By using RTT to identify the likely platform for the service, however, I was able to board the train first so this ended up being a positive for me as I was guaranteed whichever seat I liked. There didn't appear to be anybody standing but for an off-peak service almost every seat in standard appeared to be occupied. For a Bristol service, the 5-car unit seemed to be 'about optimal', however I imagine it would have been a bit of a squeeze on its inbound journey from Cardiff. Ride quality was much better on this unit than the newer one I used previously, and there were no rattles from the interior trim and window blinds this time.

Interestingly on my return journey (which was an HST) I noticed an 800 arrive at Reading on diesel and then pan up, despite having originated from Swindon. Do they not pan up any earlier than that Eastbound these days?