GWR Class 800

[D1009]

800 001 to 800 004 are still being used for tests and are not yet fully fitted out internally.

Are you sure about that? 800003 was reported running on the Cotswold line last Sunday, and 800004 worked a Royal Train last summer. As far as I know, 001 and 002 have not been fitted out, but I haven't seen or heard anything about them for months.

 

[Typhoon_93]

Are you sure about that? 800003 was reported running on the Cotswold line last Sunday, and 800004 worked a Royal Train last summer. As far as I know, 001 and 002 have not been fitted out, but I haven't seen or heard anything about them for months.

All four are still test units but 003/004 have full interiors fitted..

 

[Clarence Yard]

IETs are using SDO - and unlike many other stocks it works on an individual door level rather than front/rear X coaches. The issue is the majority of stations between Bristol and Taunton can’t accommodate much more than a 5 car; and without walk-through between units you can end up with passengers “trapped” in the rear 5 coaches for several consecutive stations. That is not an ideal scenario; and so for the time being, only 5 cars are in use West of Bristol TM. The reason the 2nd set is still dragged to Weston/Taunton is simply one of staff availability. GWR struggle to provide drivers for the passenger services as it is - it is better to prioritise that; and take the efficiency hit from dragging a dead 5 car around; than use such a scarce resource on extra ECS services to Stoke Gifford. Besides which these aren’t the final diagrams. I don’t know how train planning have arrived at what we have at the moment, but I suspect capacity in/out of London on high peak trains has been the priority - it’s just unfortunate coincidence that sees those same trains being the ones through to/from destinations west of Bristol. I expect we will see 9 cars put onto some of these services once they start running - Clarence Yard is somewhat closer to that particular coal-face, perhaps he would like to wade in and confirm.

The avoiding of use of a second driver to take a set on/off Stoke Gifford is currently a useful by-product of the software issue but split/join ceased when Hitachi requested GWR to stop it, pending a software solution. You just couldn’t electrically couple/uncouple in service properly.

The 10 cars stay off the North and South Cots because of infrastructure issues and the DfT contract has the 5 cars receiving the majority of their maintenance at Stoke Gifford. There are strict downtime and concurrence rules with these 5 car sets so the split and join moves allow the 9 and 7 hour statutory maintenance window rules at Stoke Gifford to be complied with. The 5 cars will, as a result, always tend to gravitate/cycle towards Bristol starts and finishes.

The choice of introduction services has not been done for any commercial reason and wasn’t done by Swindon train planners. The Suduko puzzle that is the IEP TARA contract means that the sets have to be diagrammed for maintenance compliance first and foremost and only on the lines where they can run in formation. Also the phased loss of roads at OOC and HST/180 hand back dates had to be factored in so a maintenance specialist (who can also do a bit of train planning) had to work it all out (SX) first, diagram by diagram, train by train!

Once the software issue has been finally nailed, I expect Agility to require GWR to adhere to the contracted maintenance windows so I suspect we will see a reversion to 5 car working west of Bristol in due course. Where possible 9 cars will work some of those services in future but there aren’t enough 9 cars to do this on every train.

 

[Dai Corner]

The avoiding of use of a second driver to take a set on/off Stoke Gifford is currently a useful by-product of the software issue but split/join ceased when Hitachi requested GWR to stop it, pending a software solution. You just couldn’t electrically couple/uncouple in service properly.

Thanks for the interesting info as usual Mr Yard.

I thought coupling/uncoupling was happening at Swansea for the Carmarthen portions? There was a rumour that it was stopped at Temple Meads as the curved platforms made the process unreliable.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Thanks for the interesting info as usual Mr Yard.

I thought coupling/uncoupling was happening at Swansea for the Carmarthen portions? There was a rumour that it was stopped at Temple Meads as the curved platforms made the process unreliable.

The Carmarthen is the test bed as the platforms are straighter than the Meads! The curved platforms at Bristol are a problem in themselves, even without the software issues. The tracks go up and down there as well which doesn’t help matters.

 

[800001]

All four are still test units but 003/004 have full interiors fitted..

Although when 003/004 were seen at York a few weeks ago on test workings, vast majority of the seat bases had been removed leaving just seat frame and seat backs.

 

[Envoy]

1L42 7.30am Carmarthen > Paddington (where 2 sections join at Swansea) was a Class 800 yesterday but a HST is doing this service this morning (Friday 23 February 2018). It seems to keep chopping & changing between the old & new trains. Wonder if the issue of joining at Swansea has anything to do with it?

 

[pacenotes]

When I've been going home the past two days Padding had more eletric trains than diesal. The thing is each day Ive noticed a couple of 800s running on diesal any idea why?

 

[JN114]

When I've been going home the past two days Padding had more eletric trains than diesal. The thing is each day Ive noticed a couple of 800s running on diesal any idea why?

Various reasons why it could be so - There are some sets running around which are restricted to Diesel mode only for various reasons. 800 diesel and 800 electric are (were?) separate competencies for the drivers, certainly at one stage there was a handful of drivers who could only drive them on Diesel.

How were you reaching the conclusion they were running on the GU not Electric?

 

[D1009]

When I've been going home the past two days Padding had more eletric trains than diesal. The thing is each day Ive noticed a couple of 800s running on diesal any idea why?

As mentioned above, not all drivers are trained on electric mode, also there have been problems with electrical interference with axle counters, discussed at length earlier in this thread.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Jolly good fun on 1B94 on Thursday evening, 800023+800022 did the honours, 800022 locked OOU for the second time this week (last Friday 16th 800013+800029 were on it with 029 OOU). Service is extremely busy to Reading. This Thursday the 800s failed at Swindon so had to change onto 43130+43127 at Bristol Parkway at half past midnight!

All fun and games!

 

[pacenotes]

How were you reaching the conclusion they were running on the GU not Electric?

I have ears and could hear the engines

 

[TractiveEffort]

1L42 7.30am Carmarthen > Paddington (where 2 sections join at Swansea) was a Class 800 yesterday but a HST is doing this service this morning (Friday 23 February 2018). It seems to keep chopping & changing between the old & new trains. Wonder if the issue of joining at Swansea has anything to do with it?

Nothing at all to do with coupling. There wasn’t a 800 at SWA to make the service, that’s all.

 

[Thunderer]

I noticed at least five 800's at Swansea Malliphant this afternoon, 006,018 and 029 were observed, the others were parked behind, so I couldn't get the set numbers. Took 800029 on the 14:06 Swansea - Cardiff shuttle service (it ran as just one 5 car) - it was good to see the green headrests deployed in First Class instead of the original Plum colour..the green headrests look classy. I got to be honest, the more I ride on the 800's the more they are growing on me. The ride is so smooth compared to the HST I took earlier today. I love the HST's and I will be sad to see them go, but I think the 800's/802's will eventually be worthy sucessors when all the initial teething issues have been sorted out.

 

[Envoy]

Nothing at all to do with coupling. There wasn’t a 800 at SWA to make the service, that’s all.

Many thanks for your response.

 

[CptCharlee]

I'm surprised by the fact GWR have only 21 nine car 800s. And 14 nine car 802s..For the inter city routes they serve I would have thought the majority of the fleet would be 9 car units.

But then I guess a 5 car 802 wont be going PNZ to PAD....ie they will use a 9 car for longer journeys.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm surprised by the fact GWR have only 21 nine car 800s. And 14 nine car 802s..For the inter city routes they serve I would have thought the majority of the fleet would be 9 car units.

But then I guess a 5 car 802 wont be going PNZ to PAD....ie they will use a 9 car for longer journeys.

You have to account for a number of routes being operated at 10 car. It isn’t as simple as comparing numbers of 9 and 5 car units.

 

[JN114]

35 9 car 80x vs 45(ish) HSTs, then all the 10 cars that could be made up with the 5 cars.

 

[59CosG95]

35 9 car 80x vs 45(ish) HSTs, then all the 10 cars that could be made up with the 5 cars.

Replacement of the 180s notwithstanding, it is quite a big increase in capacity for GWML passengers - especially when you consider that that HSTs aren't being completely withdrawn from their stomping ground.

 

[samuelmorris]

Are they not? I thought that was the purpose of the 9-car 802s?

 

[59CosG95]

Are they not? I thought that was the purpose of the 9-car 802s?

I'm surprised you haven't heard about the "HSTGTis"/"Pocket Rockets" that GWR have planned for the West Country...

They are being withdrawn from top-link intercity duties though.

 

[samuelmorris]

Ah of course, sorry I thought for a moment that was referring to intercity services. As far as I know the short sets are running the sort of routes that 150s are now aren't they?

 

[59CosG95]

Ah of course, sorry I thought for a moment that was referring to intercity services. As far as I know the short sets are running the sort of routes that 150s are now aren't they?

Yep, AFAIK the "Castles" as they'll be known (according to a source from inside GWR) will be on GWR's faster/longer-distance regional services.

Considering the GWR West of England (not Bristol) network in a similar fashion to one of the DB Regio Regions:

• "S-Bahn" services in/around Exeter (aka the "Devon Metro"): currently uses 143s/150s/153s, should turn over to 150/2 operation (occasionally supplemented by 153s).
• "Regional" services: currently uses 150s/153s, should turn over to 158 operation.
• "RE - Regional Express" services: currently uses 150s/153s, will turn over to Class 255 "Castle" operation. The Class 255 "Castles" are what GWR has nicknamed the 2+4/2+5 HST sets with power doors.
• "IC - InterCity" services: currently uses 2+8 HSTs, will turn over to Class 802 operation.

So to summarise, yes - taking over 150 duties is what the repurposed GWR HSTs will be doing.

Anyhow, time to steer this craft back in the direction of the Class 800s.
Ordered so far:

• 36 5-car 800/0s - all now built, awaiting testing and acceptance.
• 21 9-car 800/3s - currently being built. Originally due to be 801/0s before reclassification.
• 22 5-car 802/0s - Kasado-built prototypes currently on test, first Pistoia-built series sets outshopped and en route. An option exists for 150 more AT300 vehicles, which AIUI are to be formed in 30 more 802/0s.
• 14 9-car 802/1s - Kasado-built prototype currently on test.

 

[samuelmorris]

All rather odd. Reusing the name 'Castles' is either a nice hark back to the past, or sacrilege I guess, depending on who you ask. I just hope that long-term they don't stick with the idea of giving each named unit a different name for each driving vehicle, as for a multiple unit that really doesn't make much sense to me.
Using class 255, I know exactly why they picked it, but it's a bit pointless. Seems like undoing the change made early in the HST's life to renumber the power cars as locomotives (which in my opinion they kind of are really!) is change for the sake of change, to unnecessarily distinguish them from the bigger HSTs which before long will cease to exist.
Possibly the biggest gains from that really, apart from the frequency improvements, are those going from 153s to 158s and the 2+4s. That's quite the upgrade really. Far more is changing there for the benefit of the passenger than from HST to 800 I would say, without having been on one yet.

Since this is a general thread, any news on how they're getting on with the units earmarked for VTEC or TPE?

 

[ainsworth74]

An option exists for 150 more AT300 vehicles, which AIUI are to be formed in 30 more 802/0s.

Is there? I thought First had already used all their options or is this a further option on top of the original option?

 

[samuelmorris]

I think it's citing this page:
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/products/projects/at300-west-england

The fleet of 29 bi-mode AT300 trains would run primarily from London Paddington to Plymouth and Penzance, replacing 40-year-old High Speed Trains on the key intercity route to the south west. Made up of seven nine-car and 22 five-car trains, with an option for 30 more, the mixed fleet would allow for flexible use, including 10-car formations (two five-cars coupled together) for through-services to/from the capital.

 

[Mag_seven]

IETs are running diesel vice electric on the down between Reading & Didcot, something to do with a misbehaving axle counter.

Is this still an issue - was on a down Class 800 today and it switched to diesel at Reading?

 

[JN114]

Is this still an issue - was on a down Class 800 today and it switched to diesel at Reading?

Yes, it is

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I saw 800 031 and 800 033 in passenger service today ( not together; each with another 800 ).

 

[Tw99]

Yes, it is

I noticed that the main lines were closed last night, and this morning I have seen an 800 heading West with pan up between Reading and Didcot, so perhaps the problem's been fixed now.