GWR Class 800

[jayah]

The HSTs are still overkill, if GWR had more turbos or 180s then there wouldn't have been so many HSTs up the Cotswold line.
Why waste fuel and money (remember that a 9 car IEP is more expensive to lease and maintain than a 5 car) for extra capacity that isn't needed.

Here's an idea, how about we order smaller trains which can be attached and detached to provide the optimum capacity on the sections where it is needed. Like 444s on the Weymouth route.
The same idea can be applied to the Penzance route in the Winter, Golden Valley line, Cardiff to Swansea etc

Reading doesn't have any problems in the off-peak tbh

One reason is a 444 doesn't have any less capacity because of kitchens and crumple zones, nor does it need more crew when paired up. You might make a fractional improvement ordering 6 cars units for a 12car railway instead of 3 sets. The problem with the IET is that the 2x5 format loses an entire carriage of capacity against a 1x10 if the 9 cars had been extended instead.

 

[jimm]

The problem here is that you simply aren't interested in attempting to grasp why a fleet of jumbo, single-unit, 10-car trains, seating at a rough guess 710-720 people, would not actually make much sense, operationally or financially, given the varying nature and needs of different parts of GWR's network.

 

[jayah]

The problem here is that you simply aren't interested in attempting to grasp why a fleet of jumbo, single-unit, 10-car trains, seating at a rough guess 710-720 people, would not actually make much sense, operationally or financially, given the varying nature and needs of different parts of GWR's network.

The standard long distance train is France is a pair of TGV Duplex seating over 1,000. That is how Railways make money not running more and more low capacity trains.

As for operationally, you already get the depots and platforms, you just don't get the increase in capacity.

 

[cactustwirly]

The standard long distance train is France is a pair of TGV Duplex seating over 1,000. That is how Railways make money not running more and more low capacity trains.

As for operationally, you already get the depots and platforms, you just don't get the increase in capacity.

But the TGV routes are completely different to a rural route through the Cotswolds

 

[jayah]

But the TGV routes are completely different to a rural route through the Cotswolds

The Great Western isn't a rural route through the Cotswolds either. It is London to Bristol, Swansea and Penzance.

Stop trying to run 3tph off peak everywhere like West Coast and 700 seat trains look very sensible.

 

[AlexNL]

So you are proposing reducing frequencies to justify the procurement of 10-car trains?

How would that make train travel attractive?

 

[Domh245]

The standard long distance train is France is a pair of TGV Duplex seating over 1,000. That is how Railways make money not running more and more low capacity trains.

As for operationally, you already get the depots and platforms, you just don't get the increase in capacity.

The wiki page on TGV services is quite telling. The most frequent service sees up to 23 trains per day, with plenty more operating with fewer than 6 trains per day. I'd much rather stand on a train that gets me to my destination within an hour of when I want to get there, instead of having to wait for (and plan my entire day around) one of the few trains that go that way, but being able to get one of the 1000 seats...

 

[JamesRowden]

The Great Western isn't a rural route through the Cotswolds either. It is London to Bristol, Swansea and Penzance.

Stop trying to run 3tph off peak everywhere like West Coast and 700 seat trains look very sensible.

Are you aware that the fast line capacity out of Paddington is increasing from 15tph to 20tph (which is an increase from 11tph to 16tph via Reading when one subtracts the 4tph Heathrow Express)?

 

[Mag_seven]

One pair has been operating only on diesel power for a day or so. Panto/electrics issue on one of them apparently.

Was that 800006 / 800016? I was on the 11.00 Bristol -Pad with that pair today and we remained on diesel east of Maidenhead.

 

[absolutelymilk]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-more-9-car-800s-and-fewer-5-car-800s.158996/
I've created a thread to discuss whether GWR got the balance right in terms of 9/5 car 800s, which should hopefully avoid clogging up this thread.

 

[CC 72100]

Comparisons to French TGV routes are of debateable use at best, pointless at worst.

Before anyone extols the virtues of the french high-speed network, look at what that has come at the expense of in terms of local routes and other intercity routes on conventional lines.

Off-topic I appreciate, but needed to nip that one in the bud!

 

[Steve14]

First 802 at North pole without decals. Seen it doing some test runs, saw it on one day time around 2-3ish. Don't really see much difference, would have been nice if they modified the look a little?

 

[D365]

Don't really see much difference, would have been nice if they modified the look a little?

Why? What should they have had changed?

 

[BestWestern]

First 802 at North pole without decals. Seen it doing some test runs, saw it on one day time around 2-3ish. Don't really see much difference, would have been nice if they modified the look a little?

It's the same train, just with a few minor tweeks...

 

[jimm]

It's been reported elsewhere that Network Rail have replaced the misbehaving cable.

IETs were seen at Reading running on electric power yesterday and the GW Passengers Forum has posts noting some 22-minute start-to-stop runs between Paddington and Reading, matching the booked time for HSTs before ATP was introduced.

 

[dp21]

IETs were seen at Reading running on electric power yesterday and the GW Passengers Forum has posts noting some 22-minute start-to-stop runs between Paddington and Reading, matching the booked time for HSTs before ATP was introduced.

Forgive my ignorance but is that good or bad?

 

[samuelmorris]

It's 4-5 minutes less than what they're timetabled for, so I imagine good.

 

[irish_rail]

IETs were seen at Reading running on electric power yesterday and the GW Passengers Forum has posts noting some 22-minute start-to-stop runs between Paddington and Reading, matching the booked time for HSTs before ATP was introduced.

Pretty much doable in a HST with a clear run

 

[dp21]

It's 4-5 minutes less than what they're timetabled for, so I imagine good.

So what about ATP slowed down the timings? I'm not overly familiar with the GWML unfortunately.

 

[coppercapped]

So what about ATP slowed down the timings? I'm not overly familiar with the GWML unfortunately.

Since the early days of the HSTs several things have conspired to add minutes to the timing. Quite apart from the effects of the Ladbroke Grove accident had in slowing down the exit slightly, a running brake test is now made which reduces speed by 10% or so. This is generally carried out before Old Oak Common but adds twenty or thirty seconds to the journey.
As a result of the flap about SPADs, approaches to stops are much more gentle than they used to be - this adds a minute or a minute and a half for the slow crawl along the platform. Drivers are also loath to trip an emergency ATP brake application if they come over the grid too quickly at the platform ends. The ATP is set for worst case adhesion so in most cases it is too conservative. HSTs used to hit the platform ends at 40-45mph and stop in the length of the train - in all the years I have been travelling on them or watching them I have never seen a train overshoot; my impression was that the drivers knew what they were doing.

So, all these little things together have stretched the timings by 3 or 4 minutes in a 36 mile journey. And pro rata further west. Such is progress...

 

[dp21]

Since the early days of the HSTs several things have conspired to add minutes to the timing. Quite apart from the effects of the Ladbroke Grove accident had in slowing down the exit slightly, a running brake test is now made which reduces speed by 10% or so. This is generally carried out before Old Oak Common but adds twenty or thirty seconds to the journey.
As a result of the flap about SPADs, approaches to stops are much more gentle than they used to be - this adds a minute or a minute and a half for the slow crawl along the platform. Drivers are also loath to trip an emergency ATP brake application if they come over the grid too quickly at the platform ends. The ATP is set for worst case adhesion so in most cases it is too conservative. HSTs used to hit the platform ends at 40-45mph and stop in the length of the train - in all the years I have been travelling on them or watching them I have never seen a train overshoot; my impression was that the drivers knew what they were doing.

So, all these little things together have stretched the timings by 3 or 4 minutes in a 36 mile journey. And pro rata further west. Such is progress...

Ahh I see, very interesting thank you!

 

[D365]

Don’t know if it’s been said here but the axle counter issues preventing the 800s from operating beyond Maidenhead on AC are soon set to be resolved.

 

[jimm]

As I said above, they certainly have been as far as Reading - the offending section of cable at Sonning cutting has been replaced.

 

[FGW_DID]

Issue has been resolved by NR. Change over point switches to Moreton Cutting from Maidenhead WEF 8th Jan 18.
Up trains are allowed to pan up at Didcot Parkway if they have stopped there.

 

[fgwrich]

Question for those in the know about these units. 3 Times over this past week I've seen 800s start off from their respective stops on the GW, only to come to shuddering halt less than a couple of metres later. About 40 seconds later they start off again. Can anyone explain why? Took the time of a starting HST going past to get one going on the move from Reading last night.

 

[JN114]

Question for those in the know about these units. 3 Times over this past week I've seen 800s start off from their respective stops on the GW, only to come to shuddering halt less than a couple of metres later. About 40 seconds later they start off again. Can anyone explain why? Took the time of a starting HST going past to get one going on the move from Reading last night.

Could be anything - Passcomm; TPWS; ATP...

Any specifics as to which trains and where? Might help us narrow it down.

 

[class387]

Issue has been resolved by NR. Change over point switches to Moreton Cutting from Maidenhead WEF 8th Jan 18.
Up trains are allowed to pan up at Didcot Parkway if they have stopped there.

I'm pretty sure my IET from Paddington to Reading ran on electric the whole way today.

 

[fgwrich]

Could be anything - Passcomm; TPWS; ATP...

Any specifics as to which trains and where? Might help us narrow it down.

Twice at Reading and once leaving Paddington. Come to think of it I think I've had it upon leaving Paddington too just before Christmas.

 

[ainsworth74]

For discussion about whether or not the balance between 5-car and 9-car sets is correct please see the dedicated thread here.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm pretty sure my IET from Paddington to Reading ran on electric the whole way today.

What units were they?