I don't remember them being as slow as they are now.
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GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.
- Thread starter FGW_DID
- Start date
I don't remember them being as slow as they are now.
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RailUK Forums
THC
Member
No - I used them regularly when in service on the District line and drivers would often start opening the doors while the train was still in motion. I don't remember any problems with the time taken to open, more that the single leaves precluded rapid dwell time at stations.
THC
317 forever
Established Member
My Saturday in London will be March 28th. With GWR hoping to extend 230 operation to Monday-Saturday, it is bound to fail on occasional or not so occasional) days. I therefore fear that if I leave it much longer the 230 will fail on whatever later Saturday I am next in London, such as in June.
I therefore feel I am more likely to manage the ride on March 28th than once it becomes a more regular intended service.
I therefore feel I am more likely to manage the ride on March 28th than once it becomes a more regular intended service.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Giving them a shove also worked when they were on the District Line. Have the doors actually been modified at all?
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Worth checking on RTT before heading for Greenford.
(useful tip - Greenford has a more frequent service from Central London (9tph) than West Ealing (6 tph, with some gaps of 15 minutes)
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317 forever
Established Member
Oh, thank you for recommending I check RTT on the day.
As it is, I reckon on riding Elizabeth Line to West Ealing, as I have not used the section west of Paddington Elizabeth Line station yet. I also plan to ride London route 395 among others.
Dstock7080
Established Member
They certainly have been, from my short time operating them from 1980-2017 they were never this slow. A reservoir of air built up behind the actuator arm, so if the door was held upon closing the pressure would increase and almost be unable to be held open. My guess is that the pneumatic actuator engine and arm have been replaced and the door dampers have been removed, causing the door to slam on closing, on LU they would be slowed at final contact.
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martin butler
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 874
Why are some people expecting the unit to at some point fail? It's done countless miles now being tested, and surely, if it was prone to failure, it would have been quietly put to one side,
What's been the cause of the 230's failures, all of them, not just the battery powered unit?
I would assume the engines on the diesel-powered ones. the 484's appear to be reliable enough to keep the Island line operating, and with the fast-charging apparatus being used on the GWR service seemingly to be successful, is it peoples experience with the diesel-powered version,
What's been the cause of the 230's failures, all of them, not just the battery powered unit?
I would assume the engines on the diesel-powered ones. the 484's appear to be reliable enough to keep the Island line operating, and with the fast-charging apparatus being used on the GWR service seemingly to be successful, is it peoples experience with the diesel-powered version,
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Inevitably something will need attention at some point. It could be something as simple as a windscreen wiper, or a broken window, or a blocked toilet. Hopefully, whilst it's only working one day a week, there is plenty of time to attend to any such fault, unless it develops during the day, but once it's working six days a week there may be faults which can't be fixed overnight so it will need cover from time to time.
It entered the sidings on Saturday night and I can't see that it's gone to Reading, or left at all. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V75424/2026-01-31/detailed#allox_id=0 At one point there were plans to use the West Ealing sidings for minor servicing (cleaning, tanks). Has that happened yet, even with one day of work a week?
meld3
Member
If it breaks down mid-journey, does it have a way of being connected to and rescued by something else?
I don't know the answer to that, but it's worth remembering that as part of the testing process it was frequently running half hourly in between passenger trains for significant periods of the day, for several months. And I don't recall reading that it had to be rescued and towed back to the sidings in disgrace. So hopefully any such incident would be pretty rare.
I don't think anyone is expecting 100% reliability.
Maybe this one will be different, and hopefully it is, but I don't think we can ignore the reliability and problems seen on other various D Stock or 319 conversions.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
A clear positive is that it has survived first contact with passengers.
How busy were the services on its first day of exposure to reality (Saturday 31/01/2026) ?.
I imagine busier than usual due to all the interest in it, so subsequent days (Saturdays) should be easier.
jumble
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 1,493
I enjoyed a trip or 2 on Saturday having been on both Bletchley when they were running and the last D Stock in service
Regards Summer The (aging) Cocker Spaniel
Regards Summer The (aging) Cocker Spaniel
bluegoblin7
Established Member
One of the key differences between 230001 and the previous incarnations of the D train is the level of support available, and the extensive testing. It pretty much has a dedicated team in place to iron out any teething issues, and isn’t affected by the lack of first party support as GWR are now the ‘first party’. It’s also benefitted from learning of all the foibles from other variants, and indeed simply doesn’t have some of the components that have caused issues.
A sleepy branch line - albeit fairly constant - is also a very different proposition to their other uses so far, except perhaps the Isle of Wight.
I will always remember the irony, during the passenger proving runs with the BLS the other year, of the 165 failing and the 230 continuing on its merry way. All trains fail eventually. There is an emergency coupler available from LU Wedgelock to BSI if necessary.
Concur on previous commentary about the door opening/closing having changed from the original D stock, in line with the other D trains. D stock was fast and then slowed as it shut; the 230 is essentially opposite. Some of this will be due to unfamiliarity with the new train, but door cycles across all D trains have been noticeably slower, so there isn’t a huge amount of time to be gained there imo.
By the time I rode it on Saturday evening it had calmed down - three of us had the centre car to ourselves, and it felt far more like a usual trip on the branch.
A sleepy branch line - albeit fairly constant - is also a very different proposition to their other uses so far, except perhaps the Isle of Wight.
I will always remember the irony, during the passenger proving runs with the BLS the other year, of the 165 failing and the 230 continuing on its merry way. All trains fail eventually. There is an emergency coupler available from LU Wedgelock to BSI if necessary.
Concur on previous commentary about the door opening/closing having changed from the original D stock, in line with the other D trains. D stock was fast and then slowed as it shut; the 230 is essentially opposite. Some of this will be due to unfamiliarity with the new train, but door cycles across all D trains have been noticeably slower, so there isn’t a huge amount of time to be gained there imo.
By the time I rode it on Saturday evening it had calmed down - three of us had the centre car to ourselves, and it felt far more like a usual trip on the branch.
West Ealing Sidings are classed as a light maintenance depot (LMD). Also looks after GWR’s Class 387s (Green fleet & HeX) throughout the week.
Indeed there is a pan-operator Class 230 / 484 working group which meets every couple of months, involving GWR, TfL, SWR and sometimes also LUL. Experience is shared, problems common to the three operators are discussed, emerging issues can be 'headed off at the pass'. The lack of the usual commercial / contractual barriers e.g. TOC-to-supplier or TOC-to-TOC is both unusual and refreshing - nobody is making any money out of each other so everyone can be totally honest, engineers just talking to engineers, information is shared frequently and freely, everyone's objective is just to keep the units going as best they can. It begs the interesting question as to whether this would have happened if Vivarail had survived; probably not because Vivarail may have had an interest in stopping the operators from collaborating so openly!
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Very busy indeed. The first few trains felt like everybody was under 21 and creating content for their Youtube, TikTok, Instagram or whatever youngsters do these days. Made me feel very old
. It was also hard to ignore theverbal diarrhoea masquerading as so-called facts coming from many of the Know-It-Alls in every corner of the train, it was kind of like an online rail forum on wheels, but in general it was a quirky and jolly atmosphere, with excitement levels at 11. Pleased it went so well.
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'Self-recovery' is possible in most scenarios, the train has two moreorless independent Driving Motor cars so it can still move, in theory, even if 5 out of 6 batteries and 1 entire DM car is dead (providing there is still air, and control voltage), but if the worst came to the worst, it could be dragged by something else, via an emergency coupler made from big heavy bits of metal, by anything with a BSI coupler (Turbo) or a drawhook (loco). Thankfully I don't think any 230 anywhere has ever had to be rescued in such a way, though I seem to recall that some of the ex-WMT 230s had to be rescued from time-to-time by one of their sisters.
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Indeed. Expecting 100% availability, 6 days a week, 31 round trips a day, would be quite some feat, even (particularly?!) from a brand new train, let alone a 230.
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Yes, that's what is happening. It's based at West Ealing sidings for most of the time. There it gets cleaned, tanked, and minor repairs can be done. The nice thing about a battery train, as with a normal EMU, is that it can stay at an outstation almost indefinitely, only needing to return to its 'Mothership' (in this case Reading) for heavier exams, and underframe inspection.
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The doors definitely need a dose of looking at.
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Note that due to 'planned possessions' (by Network Rail), it won't be running on Saturday 14th February, Saturday 28th February, or Saturday 7th March. Not sure why it can't run because of that, something to do with access to West Ealing sidings or something, although surely it can work to and from Reading that day, I don't know, maybe they will figure something out because it seems a shame to not run it so soon after the great excitement of the first day.
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks for your reply(s).Indeed there is a pan-operator Class 230 / 484 working group which meets every couple of months, involving GWR, TfL, SWR and sometimes also LUL. Experience is shared, problems common to the three operators are discussed, emerging issues can be 'headed off at the pass'. The lack of the usual commercial / contractual barriers e.g. TOC-to-supplier or TOC-to-TOC is both unusual and refreshing - nobody is making any money out of each other so everyone can be totally honest, engineers just talking to engineers, information is shared frequently and freely, everyone's objective is just to keep the units going as best they can. It begs the interesting question as to whether this would have happened if Vivarail had survived; probably not because Vivarail may have had an interest in stopping the operators from collaborating so openly!
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Very busy indeed. The first few trains felt like everybody was under 21 and creating content for their Youtube, TikTok, Instagram or whatever youngsters do these days. Made me feel very old
verbal diarrhoea masquerading as so-called facts coming from many of the Know-It-Alls in every corner of the train, it was kind of like an online rail forum on wheels, but in general it was a quirky and jolly atmosphere, with excitement levels at 11. Pleased it went so well.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
'Self-recovery' is possible in most scenarios, the train has two moreorless independent Driving Motor cars so it can still move, in theory, even if 5 out of 6 batteries and 1 entire DM car is dead (providing there is still air, and control voltage), but if the worst came to the worst, it could be dragged by something else, via an emergency coupler made from big heavy bits of metal, by anything with a BSI coupler (Turbo) or a drawhook (loco). Thankfully I don't think any 230 anywhere has ever had to be rescued in such a way, though I seem to recall that some of the ex-WMT 230s had to be rescued from time-to-time by one of their sisters.
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Indeed. Expecting 100% availability, 6 days a week, 31 round trips a day, would be quite some feat, even (particularly?!) from a brand new train, let alone a 230.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Yes, that's what is happening. It's based at West Ealing sidings for most of the time. There it gets cleaned, tanked, and minor repairs can be done. The nice thing about a battery train, as with a normal EMU, is that it can stay at an outstation almost indefinitely, only needing to return to its 'Mothership' (in this case Reading) for heavier exams, and underframe inspection.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The doors definitely need a dose of looking at.
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Note that due to 'planned possessions' (by Network Rail), it won't be running on Saturday 14th February, Saturday 28th February, or Saturday 7th March. Not sure why it can't run because of that, something to do with access to West Ealing sidings or something, although surely it can work to and from Reading that day, I don't know, maybe they will figure something out because it seems a shame to not run it so soon after the great excitement of the first day.
The internet really is the same as all the chat in the pub except there is a permanent record of it and it gets taken home re-regurgitated and digested again. I must be very old
.I really do think this battery version of a 230 (230001) is going to turn out very reliable. But that is tempting fate.
One question I have is you referred to "GWR, TfL, SWR and sometimes also LUL" - is that TfL meant to be TfW ?.
It is always refreshing to be able to just get on with stuff without the politics etc.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Does it only run on Saturdays for now then?
Yes.
Ah yes sorry, my mistake, I did indeed mean TfW!
Prior to their withdrawal, tne LNWR Marston Vale DEMU 230s suffered from terrible engine relibility. One of the reasons given for their withdrawal when VivaRail ent pop was that they were maintenance hogs (LNWR quoted three engines a week needed to be replaced) and LNWR didn't want to take on the responsibility of maintaining them with no manufacturer support.
The TfW 230s have suffered from the genset engines overheating, battery rafts overheating during charging/discharging due to not being actively cooled, and having to be taken out of service about once a week to have the charge in the individual cells in the battery rafts balanced (which ideally the Battery Managment System on the train itself should be doing, as is the case with road EVs). The TfW 230s still usually only run one out of the three daily diagrams on the Borderlands Line they were purchased to operate, with Class 197 DMUs running the other two (and there is normally a unit change scheduled for the 230 at Bidston for mid-day).
One of the common issues that has affected both the TfW 230s and the Island Line 484s is brake block contamination and excessive tyre wear (neccessitating regular trips to the lathe) which has been linked to railhead profile and reliance on friction braking due to the rheostatic brakes not functioning (on the Island Line) and the use of flange greasers and sandite/traction gel applicators, neither of which were used with the D78 Stock in it's natural habitat on the District Line,. I expect at some point they are going to need new brake blocks manufacturing using material similar to that used on 'legacy' BR tread brake stock like the 150s which can cope with this type of comtamination.
I would not be surprised if the GWR 230 starts to suffer from excessive tyre wear too (which may be why it's being kept on weekends only while they monitor it).
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That's the plan, yes. But not next week.
That is not why
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Yes
tfw756rider
On Moderation
As I understand it:
Planned to run on Sat 7/2/26
Won't run on Sat 14/2/26
Planned to run on Sat 21/2/26
Right?
norbitonflyer
Established Member
RTT shows it is running as a type this
Yep!
The exercise doesn’t currently free up a 165, one is stationed in West Ealing Sidings while the 230 is running incase it breaks down. Obviously in theory this could change in the future.