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GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

JonathanH

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Really they should have got some surplus east coast (or Norwich) sets to put on Paddington-Cardiff at weekends, to free up the bi-modes. No good waiting for surplus diesel trains to be available.
Where would they have been maintained? They wouldn't be able to reach St Phillips Marsh without assistance, leaving Reading which has its own space issues.

Accordingly 387s are the most practical option, and indeed that is what GWR are using.

It isn't particularly obvious where IETs should be used to displace West Turbo diagrams though. I guess Cardiff to Portsmouth could be split as one option.
 
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REVUpminster

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Work has begun of the new sidings at Penzance. 5 car 800s will soon replace the castle sets. Also platform 2 extension at Exeter St David's is becoming a priority for which GWR has ear marked the money.
 

YSTrains

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Will the HST be retiring next month then? Since the Bedwyn Newbury shuttle begins with the new timetable.
 

nw12398

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There doesn't seem to be any 165/166s running from Exeter throughout the day today and more 158's than usual - all Barnstaple services (not too rare) and 2 running on Exmouth-Paignton services (one 3 car and one 2 car coupled to a 150) - any idea why?
 

JonathanH

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Will the HST be retiring next month then? Since the Bedwyn Newbury shuttle begins with the new timetable.
No.

Changing Bedwyn to London services to the new arrangements only frees up a few units.

There is a suggestion that a run down in HST diagrams will start after the summer.

In line with the subject of this thread, more Turbos are needed west as well.
 

cactustwirly

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No.

Changing Bedwyn to London services to the new arrangements only frees up a few units.

There is a suggestion that a run down in HST diagrams will start after the summer.

In line with the subject of this thread, more Turbos are needed west as well.


Where are these extra turbos for the west coming from?
The remaining turbos are stuck in Reading for the foreseeable future...
 

Rich McLean

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Where are these extra turbos for the west coming from?
The remaining turbos are stuck in Reading for the foreseeable future...

If the 769s can release the 3 car 165s, then those 165s can release 158s to take on more Castle set diagrams, so eventually it will be mostly 158s and a few 5 car 80x on the Cardiff-Penzance Corridoor. However, if the 769s keep failing, then that won't happen, and Castle ses will continue until more 150s or 158s are free'd up from elsewhere (such as 175s to Northern).
 

cactustwirly

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If the 769s can release the 3 car 165s, then those 165s can release 158s to take on more Castle set diagrams, so eventually it will be mostly 158s and a few 5 car 80x on the Cardiff-Penzance Corridoor. However, if the 769s keep failing, then that won't happen, and Castle ses will continue until more 150s or 158s are free'd up from elsewhere (such as 175s to Northern).
The 769s aren't entering service anytime soon, if ever
 

Rich McLean

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The 769s aren't entering service anytime soon, if ever
Agreed, which is why I think 175s will move to Northern, releasing 150s via internal cascade to GWR to take over the Castle sets. We can hope for 158s, but I can't see it. I am sure the 3 car 165s will be at Reading for many years to come.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Agreed, which is why I think 175s will move to Northern, releasing 150s via internal cascade to GWR to take over the Castle sets. We can hope for 158s, but I can't see it. I am sure the 3 car 165s will be at Reading for many years to come.
That's rather random and speculative for this thread isn't it? Besides, as decrepit as the Castles are, rattly and even more decrepit 150s with over half the capacity per set aren't really a viable solution.
I thought the flex were making progress now?
I personally disbelieve that they'll be mothballed before entering service, (Anyone mention the Cl. 442 shebang like people do for why a hundred different other classes might not ever enter service and I might just explode) but you can read all about their latest updates on https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-class-769-information-discussion.174866/ if you like :)

As for the Turbo diagrams, I would assume that the transfer of 3-165 to Bristol would finally kick away the remaining 158 operations in the area - two Portsmouths are diagrammed for 4-158 and there's usually about two or three 2-158s on Swindon/Westbury/Weymouth/Gloucesters down to Exeter and then they can stop putting Turbos on Exmouths and Barnstaples?
 

Parallel

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As for the Turbo diagrams, I would assume that the transfer of 3-165 to Bristol would finally kick away the remaining 158 operations in the area - two Portsmouths are diagrammed for 4-158 and there's usually about two or three 2-158s on Swindon/Westbury/Weymouth/Gloucesters down to Exeter and then they can stop putting Turbos on Exmouths and Barnstaples?
I’d argue they probably need more Turbos on the Devon metro - especially the Exmouth - Paignton services. A number of 158s have been creeping in but they struggle to keep to time on the route due to the slower acceleration and the longer dwell time at stations due to the door layout. I think 3 car 16x are the limit though, due to platform lengths at some stations on the Exmouth branch.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I’d argue they probably need more Turbos on the Devon metro - especially the Exmouth - Paignton services. A number of 158s have been creeping in but they struggle to keep to time on the route due to the slower acceleration and the longer dwell time at stations due to the door layout. I think 3 car 16x are the limit though, due to platform lengths at some stations on the Exmouth branch.
Perhaps, but having majority Turbo action with some Sprinters in Bristol/Central routes and majority Sprinter with some Turbos in West routes is surely more complicated than a consistent allocation of just Turbos on the former and Sprinters on the latter?
 

REVUpminster

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Exeter Train depot february 2018.JPG
Exeter depot is reconfigured for 3 car 158s and 3 car turbos. The publicity images 4 years ago had 158s. The shed can also accommodate a 5 car 800 for minor work.
 

RPI

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I’d argue they probably need more Turbos on the Devon metro - especially the Exmouth - Paignton services. A number of 158s have been creeping in but they struggle to keep to time on the route due to the slower acceleration and the longer dwell time at stations due to the door layout. I think 3 car 16x are the limit though, due to platform lengths at some stations on the Exmouth branch.
The best units on the Devon metro are either the booked 4 car 150 formation or a 3 car 16x.

You are correct that 3 car 16x is the current limit, however, when/if the ASDO (Automatic Selective Door Opening) happens a 4 car 16x won't cause too many issues to Exmouth/Barnstaple.

With the one train a day to Axminster soon I'm not sure whether that is enough to start classing it as a part of the Devon metro just yet but the same along there.
As it stands I don't believe 16x are cleared for the route, but Feniton/Whimple can only accommodate 3x23m vehicles, Pinhoe is restricted to 5x23m vehicles on the up. (6 actually fit and were allowed until an incident a couple of years back, but its tight)
 

The exile

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That's rather random and speculative for this thread isn't it? Besides, as decrepit as the Castles are, rattly and even more decrepit 150s with over half the capacity per set aren't really a viable solution.
As a direct replacement, no. There are plenty of services in the Bristol area for which (refurbished) 150s would be perfectly ok - indeed in terms of station dwell times better than 158s.
 

Ashley Hill

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You are correct that 3 car 16x is the current limit, however, when/if the ASDO (Automatic Selective Door Opening) happens a 4 car 16x won't cause too many issues to Exmouth/Barnstaple.
Is this actually proposed for these lines or is it just wishful thinking?
 

HamworthyGoods

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As for the Turbo diagrams, I would assume that the transfer of 3-165 to Bristol would finally kick away the remaining 158 operations in the area - two Portsmouths are diagrammed for 4-158

There are currently no plans to reduce the 158 workings on the Portsmouth corridor - TfW crews who work weekend trains onto Canton don’t sign (and won’t be trained to) turbos. This means 158s have to be retained on this route in some form and you need a minimum amount for crew retention.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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There are currently no plans to reduce the 158 workings on the Portsmouth corridor - TfW crews who work weekend trains onto Canton don’t sign (and won’t be trained to) turbos. This means 158s have to be retained on this route in some form and you need a minimum amount for crew retention.
That’ll be why I can usually always guarantee on the 1330/1430 from Cardiff to be a 158 (usually double) on a weekday.
 

REVUpminster

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To me 3 car turbos are best for Paignton-Exmouth and St Ives. More efficient, only 2 driving cabs, and one less coach to see who gets on for ticket checking. Ican't see this fascination for 5 car 150s for St Ives with five cabs, three PRM toilets. A 158 (3 car) has done St Ives this year.

Not so many 166s about down here with 2 car 158s coming instead which are turning up on the Barnstaples or attached today with a 150 or alone on Paignton Exmouth.

The stock allocators at Exeter have to be careful with the school trains 2T07, 2F25, 2F26 because it they are a 2 car 150 a barrage of phone calls/letters go in. Once 2T07 was 2 x 2car 165s which is my current avitar.

Years a go a Paddington HST was timed to leave Paignton in the afternoon which used to clear the platform at Torre.
 

RPI

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Is this actually proposed for these lines or is it just wishful thinking?
The ASDO or 4 car 16x? I don't know the answer to either, but the 16x fleet is I belive going to be fitted with ASDO, a trial was conducted recently in the Westbury area, whether this will be route specific will probably be answered by someone in the know! Obviously having the ability to run a 4 car 16x on the Devon metro would increase the flexibility.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

To me 3 car turbos are best for Paignton-Exmouth and St Ives. More efficient, only 2 driving cabs, and one less coach to see who gets on for ticket checking. Ican't see this fascination for 5 car 150s for St Ives with five cabs, three PRM toilets. A 158 (3 car) has done St Ives this year.

Not so many 166s about down here with 2 car 158s coming instead which are turning up on the Barnstaples or attached today with a 150 or alone on Paignton Exmouth.

The stock allocators at Exeter have to be careful with the school trains 2T07, 2F25, 2F26 because it they are a 2 car 150 a barrage of phone calls/letters go in. Once 2T07 was 2 x 2car 165s which is my current avitar.

Years a go a Paddington HST was timed to leave Paignton in the afternoon which used to clear the platform at Torre.
My bold above, 3 car 16x are rubbish for ticket checking if you're a guard because the doors can only be closed from the rear cab or the very front/rear passenger door, dispatching from the front isn't desirable in a lot of places and as the gaps between stops on the Exmouth are 2/3 minutes revenue duties are almost impossible.

Whereas a 4 car 150 you have door controls in each coach, 2 lots of bike and buggy spaces, 2 multi user toilets and also 2 middle cabs for making announcements.

Most Exeter guards can't stand working Turbo's!

From an RPI point of view I don't mind them, but I don't need to be worrying about anything other than tickets.
 
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Snow1964

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That’ll be why I can usually always guarantee on the 1330/1430 from Cardiff to be a 158 (usually double) on a weekday.

I travelled on 15:36 from Bath to Bradford-on-Avon today (14:30 from Cardiff to Portsmouth) and it was a very busy (all seats taken, many standing) 2car 158

Doesn’t appear to be any effort to ensure trains are more than 2car on Cardiff-Portsmouth
 

RPI

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I travelled on 15:36 from Bath to Bradford-on-Avon today (14:30 from Cardiff to Portsmouth) and it was a very busy (all seats taken, many standing) 2car 158

Doesn’t appear to be any effort to ensure trains are more than 2car on Cardiff-Portsmouth
There seems to be a shortage at the moment. I worked on a 166 to pompey the other day with an engine isolated, there was a turbo short from hitting a deer the other day down west too that did some damage
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I travelled on 15:36 from Bath to Bradford-on-Avon today (14:30 from Cardiff to Portsmouth) and it was a very busy (all seats taken, many standing) 2car 158

Doesn’t appear to be any effort to ensure trains are more than 2car on Cardiff-Portsmouth
The 13:30 is very solidly four car. The 14:30 is booked as such also but is the first to be short formed if there’s a lack of 158s. They definitely seem to prioritise the 13:30
 

Snow1964

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The 13:30 is very solidly four car. The 14:30 is booked as such also but is the first to be short formed if there’s a lack of 158s. They definitely seem to prioritise the 13:30

The 14:30 of course hits the rush hour in Southampton area, the 13:30 doesn’t, so whats the logic behind putting any short formation on 14:30 instead of 13:30.

There are some 3car 158s but seems if they opt for short forming they prefer to drop to 2car
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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The 14:30 of course hits the rush hour in Southampton area, the 13:30 doesn’t, so whats the logic behind putting any short formation on 14:30 instead of 13:30. Unless it’s Welsh staff not giving a stuff about English commuters.
I don’t think there’s a need to bring nationality into it. It really isn’t likely to have anything to do with whether the staff are English or Welsh.

There are five carriage 158s often on the route on Sunday, which I think would be a wonderful regular for the route had they the stock free. I’m aware they don’t
 

RPI

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The 14:30 of course hits the rush hour in Southampton area, the 13:30 doesn’t, so whats the logic behind putting any short formation on 14:30 instead of 13:30. Unless it’s Welsh staff not giving a stuff about English commuters.
The 13:30 would be in Salisbury around school finish time and leaving Pompey in rush hour
 

Parallel

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I used the 18:24 ex-Portsmouth from Southampton yesterday which I think is formed off the 14:30 ex-Cardiff which was still a 2-car 158 by that point, and full and standing on arrival into Southampton.

The 08:59 Brighton - Worcester F'gate St was also a 2-car 158 which must've been cosy! It remained as 2-car all the way back down to Weymouth which leaves Bath in the evening peak and would've been popular with shoppers and leisure travellers. It's a shame that 150s are no longer used in the Bristol area as they historically added a degree of flexibilty for strengthening (on the rare occasion that extra sets were available, of course!)

There does seem to be a shortage of Turbos at the moment in the West, and it seems 158 diagrams are being shortformed to cover other services.
 

REVUpminster

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Only 166201 and 165128 working Paignton today. Only 14/20 150s working today. Short formed 150 and 158762 each working a Paignton service. Three 3 car 158s being maintained to Barnstaple; last week some were 2 cars.
 

RPI

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Only 166201 and 165128 working Paignton today. Only 14/20 150s working today. Short formed 150 and 158762 each working a Paignton service. Three 3 car 158s being maintained to Barnstaple; last week some were 2 cars.
I'm not even sure where the shortage is at the moment, it was poorly Turbo's, the Devon metro is getting daft with the amount of short formations lately.
 

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