GWR Brighton services axed from May timetable change

[The exile]

Indeed, as well as the lack of a suitable crew and/or traction depot for the first & last trains if they were to terminate at SOU.

Although if I remember correctly that’s exactly what the last one south of Salisbury used to do ( running via Chandler’s Ford?)

 

[Towers]

Although if I remember correctly that’s exactly what the last one south of Salisbury used to do ( running via Chandler’s Ford?)

Apologies, how do you mean? Are you referring to the SWR Salisbury - Romsey service? No idea, but I'd imagine they all finish in service at Salisbury?

As for the last GWR, it finishes at Portsmouth and runs the very short distance empty straight into Fratton depot.

 

[The exile]

Apologies, how do you mean? Are you referring to the SWR Salisbury - Romsey service? No idea, but I'd imagine they all finish in service at Salisbury?

As for the last GWR, it finishes at Portsmouth and runs the very short distance empty straight into Fratton depot.

Very definitely prepared to be wrong, but I’d thought that at one stage in the past ( and I may be thinking back to loco-hauled days) that the last departure from Bristol that went beyond Salisbury went Romney -Eastleigh - Southampton and terminated ( this being the only way to do Romney -Eastleigh, but impossible to get back “north” from)

 

[Dr Hoo]

Very definitely prepared to be wrong, but I’d thought that at one stage in the past ( and I may be thinking back to loco-hauled days) that the last departure from Bristol that went beyond Salisbury went Romney -Eastleigh - Southampton and terminated ( this being the only way to do Romney -Eastleigh, but impossible to get back “north” from)

Quite right. When I lived in Southampton it was the 2145 ex Bristol, Romsey 2339, Southampton 0005, not booked to call at Eastleigh. From 16 January 1984 it was diverted to run via the Nursling line, i.e. Redbridge.

Rather late for my taste. The 0856 northbound Southampton starter, which called at Eastleigh and also ran via the Chandlers Ford line was a much easier grice unless you were obsessed with directionality.

 

[30907]

I thought services to Brighton were traditional. They have been around for a long time.

Depends on how you define traditional (in parish churches it is allegedly after the third time - but that's OT). A Brighton-Cardiff ran till the early 60s, but it was only a part of the total Portsmouth-Bristol service. I don't recall it appearing again until Sprinterisation (unlike the Exeter train which ran from on and off through the BR Blue era).

Quite right. When I lived in Southampton it was the 2145 ex Bristol, Romsey 2339, Southampton 0005, not booked to call at Eastleigh. From 16 January 1984 it was diverted to run via the Nursling line, i.e. Redbridge.

An oddity, which was the successor to the Mails with its single BSK.

 

[WesternLancer]

Depends on how you define traditional (in parish churches it is allegedly after the third time - but that's OT). A Brighton-Cardiff ran till the early 60s, but it was only a part of the total Portsmouth-Bristol service. I don't recall it appearing again until Sprinterisation (unlike the Exeter train which ran from on and off through the BR Blue era).

An oddity, which was the successor to the Mails with its single BSK.

My 1948 timetable BR(SR) shows 11am Brighton departure, 4.50pm Cardiff arrival, other services are shown at different times but the way it is annotated I think means they are actually connections into Portsmouth - Cardiff services, not through trains.

There was, I'm sure a Brighton - Cardiff in the 1980s. I used it unless memory playing tricks (sometimes as far as Bristol, other times as a fast service to at least Hampshire area). Class 33 hauled.

 

[The exile]

Quite right. When I lived in Southampton it was the 2145 ex Bristol, Romsey 2339, Southampton 0005, not booked to call at Eastleigh. From 16 January 1984 it was diverted to run via the Nursling line, i.e. Redbridge.

Rather late for my taste. The 0856 northbound Southampton starter, which called at Eastleigh and also ran via the Chandlers Ford line was a much easier grice unless you were obsessed with directionality.

Again, may be wrong but I've got a feeling it re-emerged at some point towards the end of the 1980s (I didn't arrive in Bristol till 1986 and seem to remember that it was one of those bits of elusive track that was perfectly doable "every day" but completely impossible to get to/from - at least on my budget.) "Operation Crabstick" finally came to my rescue in (?) 1990.

 

[387star]

From may the 16th the alternatives to and from Brighton are all station stoppers ! Scandalous. Also no 1700 train and a wait till 1730 for a direct service towards Havant

 

[infobleep]

From may the 16th the alternatives to and from Brighton are all station stoppers ! Scandalous. Also no 1700 train and a wait till 1730 for a direct service towards Havant

Can we be certain they won't add in an additional train to cover the gap?

 

[30907]

Can we be certain they won't add in an additional train to cover the gap?

From Brighton there is a 1705 Pompey as pre-covid (but shown as "as required" - mostly it is the West Worthings that are Q) - so maybe.

 

[nw1]

Which is complete madness, although the idea to extend the Southampton stopper to Weymouth (and then Poole) was always a curious one. That’s for another thread though.

They do need 2tph fast-ish journeys Southampton-Portsmouth I think, given the proximity of the cities. Essentially there is only one currently because the stopper arrives/departs Portsmouth only just in front of/behind the GWR.

Furthermore many of the larger intermediate stops could perhaps do with 2tph e.g. St Denys, Woolston, Netley.

That second train was IMO definitely a good idea for these reasons, and not unnecessary 'clutter'.

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Can we be certain they won't add in an additional train to cover the gap?

I guess part of the answer to that is whether Southern get any replacement units for the 455s, and how many if they do.

 

[Towers]

Very definitely prepared to be wrong, but I’d thought that at one stage in the past ( and I may be thinking back to loco-hauled days) that the last departure from Bristol that went beyond Salisbury went Romney -Eastleigh - Southampton and terminated ( this being the only way to do Romney -Eastleigh, but impossible to get back “north” from)

Ah, I see! Certainly not in recent times. The last services terminate at Portsmouth and return to Fratton depot for stabling, and are worked by Fratton crews.

What does still happen is that the last service of the night, having started from Bristol Parkway rather than Cardiff, runs Romsey - Soton Ctl - Soton Airport - Eastleigh (reverses) - Botley (not calling) - Fareham, rather than the usual route straight from Soton Ctl to Fareham via the Netley road, which is for crew route knowledge retention purposes.

The last northbound of the day runs the same route in reverse, terminating at Westbury and manned by a Westbury crew. Oddly, this one northbound service alone runs as a 2Mxx headcode, rather than the 1Fxx headcodes used for the same services throughout the rest of the day. The penultimate northbound service runs normal (Netley) route but terminates at Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[pompeyfan]

Ah, I see! Certainly not in recent times. The last services terminate at Portsmouth and return to Fratton depot for stabling, and are worked by Fratton crews.

What does still happen is that the last service of the night, having started from Bristol Parkway rather than Cardiff, runs Romsey - Soton Ctl - Soton Airport - Eastleigh (reverses) - Botley (not calling) - Fareham, rather than the usual route straight from Soton Ctl to Fareham via the Netley road, which is for crew route knowledge retention purposes.

The last northbound of the day runs the same route in reverse, terminating at Westbury and manned by a Westbury crew. Oddly, this one northbound service alone runs as a 2Mxx headcode, rather than the 1Fxx headcodes used for the same services throughout the rest of the day. The penultimate northbound service runs normal (Netley) route but terminates at Bristol Temple Meads.

Just a couple of bits to add to the above, 1D91 (the service that runs via Eastleigh) runs as a xDxx headcode now at the request of Eastleigh ASC, it does also stop at both Hedge End and Botley. 2M95 is now/was booked through to Bristol Temple Meads as of recent times.

 

[swt_passenger]

Just a couple of bits to add to the above, 1D91 (the service that runs via Eastleigh) runs as a xDxx headcode now at the request of Eastleigh ASC, it does also stop at both Hedge End and Botley. 2M95 is now/was booked through to Bristol Temple Meads as of recent times.

Also a class 3 ECS Fratton to Warminster via Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford in the May timetable:

Realtime Trains | 3E53 0523 Fratton C.S.D. to Warminster | 16/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 3E53 0523 departure from Fratton C.S.D. to Warminster on 16/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think a couple of years ago there was a Sunday morning ECS from Fratton to Romsey that formed an early Brighton service, it also ran empty via Chandlers Ford.

 

[Towers]

Just a couple of bits to add to the above, 1D91 (the service that runs via Eastleigh) runs as a xDxx headcode now at the request of Eastleigh ASC, it does also stop at both Hedge End and Botley. 2M95 is now/was booked through to Bristol Temple Meads as of recent times.

Right you are sir, it does indeed call all shacks down the Botley road, hadn't noticed that! I have it showing as 1F91 though? It used to be the second-to-last some years back, which ran as 1F99.

Same system also showing M95 as a WSB terminator; possibly been some too-ing and fro-ing since Covid recovery??

 

[swt_passenger]

Right you are sir, it does indeed call all shacks down the Botley road, hadn't noticed that! I have it showing as 1F91 though? It used to be the second-to-last some years back, which ran as 1F99.

Same system also showing M95 as a WSB terminator; possibly been some too-ing and fro-ing since Covid recovery??

The extra passenger calls started only about 3 years ago, IIRC they were intended to fill a long gap between trains in the down direction SWR pattern in the late evening.

 

[Towers]

Also a class 3 ECS Fratton to Warminster via Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford in the May timetable:

Realtime Trains | 3E53 0523 Fratton C.S.D. to Warminster | 16/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 3E53 0523 departure from Fratton C.S.D. to Warminster on 16/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think a couple of years ago there was a Sunday morning ECS from Fratton to Romsey that formed an early Brighton service, it also ran empty via Chandlers Ford.

Seems to replace the current ECS bearing the same headcode, which comes from St Philips Marsh (Bristol). Train then enters service as Warminster - Gt Malvern, though is currently the 07:20 departure vs a 07:22 ECS arrival in the new timetable.

 

[Class 170101]

Surprised its not starting from Salisbury around 07:01.

 

[Towers]

Surprised its not starting from Salisbury around 07:01.

Yes, that's a fair point. Perhaps there's deemed to be insufficient demand?

 

[nw1]

Yes, that's a fair point. Perhaps there's deemed to be insufficient demand?

Or even 0630 or so from Southampton, as it would then provide an early service towards Bristol at very little additional cost.

 

[swt_passenger]

Or even 0630 or so from Southampton, as it would then provide an early service towards Bristol at very little additional cost.

If it would be running only 20 mins ahead of the first normal Cardiff train, how much real demand would there be? And there’s an SWR as far as Salisbury at 0632 anyway.

 

[nw1]

If it would be running only 20 mins ahead of the first normal Cardiff train, how much real demand would there be? And there’s an SWR as far as Salisbury at 0632 anyway.

I guess, but that 20 mins could be the difference between getting to work on time or not for some people, perhaps. Was just thinking there would be very little additional cost in running such an ECS move in service part of the way; it leaves Fratton before 0530 so has plenty of time allowance to get to Warminster.

 

[JonathanH]

I guess, but that 20 mins could be the difference between getting to work on time or not for some people, perhaps. Was just thinking there would be very little additional cost in running such an ECS move in service part of the way; it leaves Fratton before 0530 so has plenty of time allowance to get to Warminster.

It may be that flexibility has to be allowed for to allow the service to use a Westbury unit in the event of engineering work not allowing access to the line such that it can only start at Warminster.

 

[swt_passenger]

I guess, but that 20 mins could be the difference between getting to work on time or not for some people, perhaps. Was just thinking there would be very little additional cost in running such an ECS move in service part of the way; it leaves Fratton before 0530 so has plenty of time allowance to get to Warminster.

It has a couple of planned dwells in the Eastleigh area on it’s booked route as well, about 15 mins together.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Or even 0630 or so from Southampton, as it would then provide an early service towards Bristol at very little additional cost.

The ECS doesn’t run via Southampton instead via Chandlers Ford, replacing the ECS (for the Sunday Romsey/Brighton) which previously ran via this route).

 

[Towers]

The ECS doesn’t run via Southampton instead via Chandlers Ford, replacing the ECS (for the Sunday Romsey/Brighton) which previously ran via this route).

It also may or may not convey a guard; it's entirely possible that it carries a Fratton guard as the schedule shows two crew stops, at the Fratton depot staff halt and again in the platform, but it's equally possible that there might be something involving a Westbury guard joining the train at Warminster - it's shown as having 8 minutes dwell time there before departing in service, so either is possible!

 

[pompeyfan]

Surely 2V52 provides sufficient journeys for those that require it, which runs in front of this new set of empty.

 

[paul1609]

To some limited extent, but AIUI the vast majority of Naval personnel will never actually have anything to do with either location. They’re civil service organisations with a relatively small proportion of uniformed personnel, mostly engineering branches.

There is actually quite a lot of traffic but it's all done by pool/hire car/minibus as its generally groups of people travelling together. Apart from a 4.50 service from Fratton the first arrival from Portsmouth gets in at 9.10 which is considered too late for briefings as you have to walk from the station to the main gate for security clearance.

 

[Pacwoman]

GWR is axing its direct Brighton trains from the May timetable change.

Brighton will lose yet another direct link having lost Birmingham Reading and Bournemouth over the last twenty years.

This has been confirmed by The Sussex Express

What are peoples' thoughts ?

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https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...d-at-chichester-worthing-and-brighton-3584763

I am really upset that they are axing this service. It has been a lifeline for me. I travel from Havant to Falmer three times per week, changing at Brighton. I usually take the 07.27 from Havant to Brighton and return on the 17.02 from Brighton to Havant. The GWR train is comfy and has tables so you can get some work done. There are quite a few people that make the journey between Havant and Brighton each day. The situation at the moment is awful as there are very few direct Southern trains between Brighton and Havant. At present I have to take the 16.32 from Brighton, which is rammed (about 30 people standing in each carriage). I then have to change at Chichester so my journey is significantly longer. The person who said that this route is not used much ought to try it out for themselves! My only hope is that the trains between Brighton and Southampton (which stop at Havant) will be re-instated. Does anyone know whether this will happen?

 

[route101]

Tried to use the 1702 GWR service from Brighton today. It was cancelled. I went up to three bridges to connect with Southampton service instead, it did start from West Worthing. Was hoping to ride it before it's gone but only possible on weekdays.