GWR 387 diagrams

[barrow trains]

Hi, any idea please of standard Saturday diagrams for when GTR + C2C 387s can appear on GWR services, or just random allocations on the day? Cheers

 

[JonathanH]

Hi, any idea please of standard Saturday diagrams for when GTR + C2C 387s can appear on GWR services, or just random allocations on the day? Cheers

Best to look at RTT on the day now that allocations are shown for GWR services. The 387 fleet doesn't exactly have a wide sphere of operation on a Saturday.

 

[Horizon22]

C2C 387s generally only work Reading - Newbury. And then again on Saturday's they might not even be out at all. GTR 387s are basically baked into the regular GWR 387s diagrams as they are fully compatible so could be anywhere. There have previously been "crowd-buster" 387 services on some Saturdays which run as far as Swindon or even Bristol Parkway, but this hasn't been every weekend.

However most of these are heading back to their parent operators in the next month, so you might not have long to see them!

 

[JN114]

The hired-in GTR 387s don’t follow certain diagrams, they are common use with the GWR 387 fleet.

The c2c units, if out, will almost certainly be found on the Reading - Newbury stoppers as they’re restricted to 4 car operation (or boxed-in as middle of a 12 car but that’s a pain so it never happens)

 

[StephenHunter]

The c2c units operated as 12-car formations there. Why would they be limited?

 

[JonathanH]

The c2c units operated as 12-car formations there. Why would they be limited?

It is more that they can't work with GWR / GTR examples (other than 'boxed in') than they can't operate in a 12-car formation. Easier to keep them self contained.

This post will help.

From tomorrow they are on their own set of diagrams, 2 diagrams for 3 units encompassing solely Newbury work; so subject to usual caveats expect them to be a permanent feature for the time being.

As to the various questions as to why they’re only allowed on Newburys - it’s down to the SDO implementation on the c2c sets. GWR/HEx went over to a Beacon system with GPS backup a couple of years ago. The leading unit in a multiple formation is the “master” for SDO release; so a set formed up 73xx+71xx, would not be able to make use of the beacons, so a GPS release would have to happen instead; which due to inaccuracies of GPS and the way the database is now set up after the adoption of the Beacon system would mean only doors on the front unit would be unlocked - unnecessarily restrictive on the 8/9+ coach platforms of the Thames Valley. The only self-contained 4 car diagrams for 387s are the Newbury shuttles; so the quick-and-dirty way of ensuring they stay on them has been to slap the Newburys only restriction on them. They are authorised by the company ECS wherever a 387 is already allowed to go, and they can also run in multiple with “Classic” 387s ECS only.

Whilst they are only on temporary loan, it is not for GWR to start modifying the trains to get around those restrictions. If the loan does become permanent as has been rumoured elsewhere, then it’s a different story and we’d likely see some vinyl and SDO mods.

Hopefully that can draw a line under the 387/3 discussion.

 

[barrow trains]

Ok, thanks for the info

 

[StephenHunter]

Thanks.

 

[317 forever]

Since the introduction of 345s, I am not confident of many 387s on London Paddington - Reading services. I reckon only the Didcot services now.

 

[JN114]

Since the introduction of 345s, I am not confident of many 387s on London Paddington - Reading services. I reckon only the Didcot services now.

It will only be a 345 if it’s a Class 9 headcode. A 2N/2P/2R will be a 387

 

[MotCO]

However most of these are heading back to their parent operators in the next month, so you might not have long to see them!

Does this mean more IETs are coming back into service, or are the387s required back at C2C?

 

[StephenHunter]

Pre-pandemic, the 387s operated peak hours services in 12-carriage formations and they had six in total. There are some 720s on order to replace them in that role, but they're not there yet.

 

[David Goddard]

Cant really see the need to reinstate those peak services now, demand is hardly going to pick up back to 2019 levels. Therefore little need for the 720s.

 

[StephenHunter]

Cant really see the need to reinstate those peak services now, demand is hardly going to pick up back to 2019 levels. Therefore little need for the 720s.

c2c does get a fair bit of tourist action at the weekends - it operates services to Stratford and Liverpool Street, which can get pretty full after a West Ham game. Also, Southend is a popular destination.

 

[David Goddard]

c2c does get a fair bit of tourist action at the weekends - it operates services to Stratford and Liverpool Street, which can get pretty full after a West Ham game. Also, Southend is a popular destination.

None of which flows were served by the additional peak workings operated by the six 387/3s.

 

[JN114]

If - and I stress if - the plan / rumour mill are to be believed:-

387201-206 go back to Great Northern in December, replaced by 387303-305 from East Ham; with c2c/Porterbrook blessing to carry out the requisite software mods to enable the /3s to work fully with the GWR sets.

Reading have been “converting” the /3s we have on loan from East Ham’s exam regime/balancing (which is more akin to a 357 exam regime) to Reading’s, which is based on Turbo exam regime - given the extensive work involved in doing so it’s a sign that the white ones will be here for a while yet…

IET shortage still bites hard - December will see 387s continue on the majority of Bedwyn work (terminating Newbury with a connecting Turbo shuttle), plus new daily trip(s) to Cardiff. This on top of a reinstatement of the half hourly Didcots all day, the 31 387s will be stretched thinly indeed.

 

[Horizon22]

Does this mean more IETs are coming back into service, or are the387s required back at C2C?

Bit of both - more IETs are coming back (Cardiff - Paddington returns), but as @JN114 says the 387 is going to be pushed again with Didcot Parkway stoppers going back to half-hourly. But it is expected the current size of the 387 fleet (inc. GTR & C2C loan-ins) will decrease slightly.

 

[73128]

Since the introduction of 345s, I am not confident of many 387s on London Paddington - Reading services. I reckon only the Didcot services now.

there are (were) a few on fringe peak services. Usual GWR stopping pattern of Ealing, Hayes, Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford (and often West Drayton). From next week the half hourly Didcot stoppers resume so these go, and a handful of peak services go to XR (which is why the 7 car sets have come back west - see 345 thread)

 

[MotCO]

there are (were) a few on fringe peak services. Usual GWR stopping pattern of Ealing, Hayes, Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford (and often West Drayton). From next week the half hourly Didcot stoppers resume so these go, and a handful of peak services go to XR (which is why the 7 car sets have come back west - see 345 thread)

For a moment I thought that Extinction Rebellion had got hold of the 387s

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Not sure if this is the right place or if there is a thread specifically about the c2c 387s with GWR, but I noticed today that according to real-time trains a c2c unit is working coupled to a GWR unit, which I know was being avoided before. Have the potential issues been rectified, or is RRT (or, as someone is sure to point out, the data being provided to it) being inaccurate?

Realtime Trains | 2K39 1314 Newbury to Reading | 12/02/2022

Real-time train running information for 2K39 1314 departure from Newbury to Reading on 12/02/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Horizon22]

Not sure if this is the right place or if there is a thread specifically about the c2c 387s with GWR, but I noticed today that according to real-time trains a c2c unit is working coupled to a GWR unit, which I know was being avoided before. Have the potential issues been rectified, or is RRT (or, as someone is sure to point out, the data being provided to it) being inaccurate?

Realtime Trains | 2K39 1314 Newbury to Reading | 12/02/2022

Real-time train running information for 2K39 1314 departure from Newbury to Reading on 12/02/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It's incorrect and has now been amended.

 

[JN114]

Strictly, the data was accurate - 306 was put out on a diagram where it would couple to another 387.

When this was noted a swap was arranged to ensure it didn’t happen.

 

[43102EMR]

Not sure if this is the right place or if there is a thread specifically about the c2c 387s with GWR, but I noticed today that according to real-time trains a c2c unit is working coupled to a GWR unit, which I know was being avoided before. Have the potential issues been rectified, or is RRT (or, as someone is sure to point out, the data being provided to it) being inaccurate?

Realtime Trains | 2K39 1314 Newbury to Reading | 12/02/2022

Real-time train running information for 2K39 1314 departure from Newbury to Reading on 12/02/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I thought this would be real considering the c2c 387s with GWR have now received GWR branding… still had the Trenitalia logos present though.

 

[73128]

I thought this would be real considering the c2c 387s with GWR have now received GWR branding… still had the Trenitalia logos present though.

Well, one has today(387306), another (387301) still has C2C (both in Reading depot) and I didn't see the third set.

 

[LeccyLewwy]

7301 and 7302 have GWR and Trenitalia logos. 7306 still has c2c logos on one side, blank on the other.

 

[43102EMR]

Apparently all 6 c2c 387s are to end up with GWR on permanent lease - is that true?

 

[JN114]

Apparently all 6 c2c 387s are to end up with GWR on permanent lease - is that true?

Nothing officially confirmed yet

 

[swt_passenger]

Apparently all 6 c2c 387s are to end up with GWR on permanent lease - is that true?

Theres another discussion elsewhere suggesting that they’re now going to SN, as part of the inward cascade after their 455 removal.

 

[LeccyLewwy]

I don't think GWR would have started applying their logo to the three units they have if there was any chance they'd be moving on soon. There must be some inside information confirming they're staying with GWR, because they've left it this long to debrand them of c2c logos.

 

[Horizon22]

Was this the first solo ex-C2C 387 from Paddington? 4-car service to Theale.

Realtime Trains | 1K04 0807 London Paddington to Theale | 19/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 1K04 0807 departure from London Paddington to Theale on 19/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

387306 looks like it’s on a diagram all day.