GWML closed (14/10) Newton Abbot - Dawlish

[Coolzac]

Sorry for going off thread but surely the point of local councillors and MPs is to represent their local constituents’ interests.
I struggle to understand why a local politician in Newton Abbot should be expected to say “let’s re-open via Okehampton, we’re happy to take one for Cornwall’s sake and queue up in the rain for replacement buses”.
Would Yorksrob be happy if his local members campaigned for investment in the Wisbech area, diverting funds from (say) Skipton-Colne?

I think that if the local politicians didn't support it, that would be a great shame. I was born and grew in up in Newton Abbot and would have loved for the line to re-open, as it opens up more of Dartmoor to public transport. Also, the GWML is just that, a mainline, so there is no suggestion that creating a diversionary line would stop the incentives to get it back up and running as quickly as possible.

 

[HowardGWR]

On the idea of a via Heathfield and Christow parallel diversion, I think that particular possibility belongs in the speculation forum, as the route was not a good one anyway (mainly Teign Valley, very flood prone) and such a diversion needs to keep high for as far as possible until descending to Newton Abbot, as the A38 /A380 road does. Rail cannot reach as high as the road, so a tunnel is indicated, as the GWR proposed. Retaining the Dawlish route still demands that its defences need to be maintained and improved, as this incident has displayed.

 

[dk1]

What a superb overnight effort by all involved. I honestly didn't see it opening this morning in the way it has.

 

[Warwick]

If only somebody had constructed a railway from Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton.

Damn Brunel and his obsession with level railway lines.

 

[Western Lord]

It's not just about taking one for cornwall. How can a major city like Plymouth be routinely cut off from the rest of the country. Time to start building a diversion NOW

Plymouth is not "routinely cut off from the rest of the country". Please try to understand that the overwhelming majority of passenger travel is by road, as is all freight except for a few china clay trains. This is the problem with the economics of a by pass or a diversionary route, there is zero freight traffic to help shoulder the cost.

 

[mralexn]

Plymouth is not "routinely cut off from the rest of the country". Please try to understand that the overwhelming majority of passenger travel is by road, as is all freight except for a few china clay trains. This is the problem with the economics of a by pass or a diversionary route, there is zero freight traffic to help shoulder the cost.

The thing is we are, even just to give Friday just gone as an example, the A38 was closed for about 7 hours near Ivybridge and the railway line was very iffy at best due to the numerous issues with power lines on the tracks etc.

 

[Robertj21a]

The thing is we are, even just to give Friday just gone as an example, the A38 was closed for about 7 hours near Ivybridge and the railway line was very iffy at best due to the numerous issues with power lines on the tracks etc.

Presumably, traffic goes north a bit and uses the A30 ?

 

[mralexn]

Presumably, traffic goes north a bit and uses the A30 ?

It can do, however it would only be dual carriage way until Okehampton, then single lane A Roads, plus that route would mean going through Tavistock, Woolwell and Derriford, which are not great at the best of times, especially with the amount of roadworks going on along the route as well at the moment.

To put it simply, yes that could be done, but it would add an hour easily to journey times.

 

[irish_rail]

Plymouth is not "routinely cut off from the rest of the country". Please try to understand that the overwhelming majority of passenger travel is by road, as is all freight except for a few china clay trains. This is the problem with the economics of a by pass or a diversionary route, there is zero freight traffic to help shoulder the cost.

If you take into account the frequent cancellations of crosscountry services due to a bit of wind blowing then I would call the effective cut off as frequent.
Other major cities wouldn't be content to say well it's OK you can get here by car , so why should Plymouth. What the hell kind of a message does that send when we are all attempting to be greener??!!!

 

[Robertj21a]

It can do, however it would only be dual carriage way until Okehampton, then single lane A Roads, plus that route would mean going through Tavistock, Woolwell and Derriford, which are not great at the best of times, especially with the amount of roadworks going on along the route as well at the moment.

To put it simply, yes that could be done, but it would add an hour easily to journey times.

Thanks. I'd put up with an hour delay if it still meant that I could avoid being cut off - I can have an hour delay just trying to get home a couple of junctions on the motorway !

 

[The Ham]

Sorry for going off thread but surely the point of local councillors and MPs is to represent their local constituents’ interests.
I struggle to understand why a local politician in Newton Abbot should be expected to say “let’s re-open via Okehampton, we’re happy to take one for Cornwall’s sake and queue up in the rain for replacement buses”.
Would Yorksrob be happy if his local members campaigned for investment in the Wisbech area, diverting funds from (say) Skipton-Colne?

Given that earlier in this thread there were complaints due to lack of replacement buses, if everything West of Plymouth had been able to divert around then the queues for the buses would have been shorter and therefore would have benefited those from Newton Abbot. In that they would be one of (say) 200 rather than one of 600.

Therefore even though they wouldn't be using the trains, they could still benefit from the alternative route.

 

[yorksrob]

Plymouth is not "routinely cut off from the rest of the country". Please try to understand that the overwhelming majority of passenger travel is by road, as is all freight except for a few china clay trains. This is the problem with the economics of a by pass or a diversionary route, there is zero freight traffic to help shoulder the cost.

But that's no justification for rail passengers not having an alternative route west.

What it lacks in freight potential, the area makes up for in passenger potential.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

What a superb overnight effort by all involved. I honestly didn't see it opening this morning in the way it has.

Exactly - some very good work done in poor conditions overnight. Well done indeed.

 

[Bald Rick]

if the objective is to minimise the chances of disruption due to weather conditions between Exeter and Plymouth, then the answers, in order of affordability are:

1) deploy trains on the route that don’t mind being splashed with sea spray (which will happen in the next decade or so anyway, so will effectively be free)
2) enhance the sea defences on the stretches concerned (perhaps a hundred million, may be more, may be less)
3) build a new line (around a billion)

A simple analysis of the disruption mitigated by each of the above would be instructive.

 

[Requeststop]

I recall a headline from the Cornishman (Local Newspaper from West Cornwall) a few decades back "Snow Drifts hit Sennen and St Buryan. Nation cut off from Lands End." Depends all on your point of view.

if the objective is to minimise the chances of disruption due to weather conditions between Exeter and Plymouth, then the answers, in order of affordability are:

1) deploy trains on the route that don’t mind being splashed with sea spray (which will happen in the next decade or so anyway, so will effectively be free)
2) enhance the sea defences on the stretches concerned (perhaps a hundred million, may be more, may be less)
3) build a new line (around a billion)

A simple analysis of the disruption mitigated by each of the above would be instructive.

Bald Rick. It's not the weather conditions that disrupt services between Exeter and Penzance but the effects of weather on the infrastructure. the big cut off at Dawlish a couple of years back was the effect of the weather on the infrastructure on the line. If you watched BBC Spotlight from Plymouth on Sunday evening, the local farmer who has the land just above the "pothole" on the river Teign, claims to have a folder 2 inches thick of correspondence over many years about problems with the culvert. So it's not about 1. The type of trains using the lines. 2. the sea defences or 3. building the new line, as nice as it would be. It's about maintaining the infrastructure of the line. BTW its not about building a new line but re-instating a line be it Heathfield or Okehampton/Tavistock. (been following Penzance-Paddington services today on realtimetrains. Many problems today mostly seem to be beyond the south west, and 1A35 departed Penzance 62L)

 

[30907]

the farmer who has the land just above the "pothole" on the river Teign, claims to have a folder 2 inches thick of correspondence over many years about problems with the culvert.

Presumably said farmer wasn't worried about damage to the railway, but (quite properly) damage to his land caused by the failure to keep out (salt) tidal waters?
Whether this failure was the cause of the sinkhole isn't yet clear AFAIK.

 

[infobleep]

At least (according to the rainfall radar), it's dried up in the southwest now. That's got to be a massive help.

Mother Nature has thrown everything it's got at the railways this year, powdery snow (and lots of it), a prolonged heatwave and now some deep low pressures in the Autumn.

These engineers who are out there repairing our railway have done, and are doing, an incredible job. If there's any justice, the UK will have a quiet, dry and average winter this year. I fear I may be in cloud cuckoo land though...

A dry winter wouldn't be good for our water supply. We need rain.