GW to be electrified

[moonrakerz]

It's always been a tentative aspiration.

tentative
adj
1. provisional or experimental; conjectural
2. hesitant, uncertain, or cautious

aspiration
n
1. strong desire to achieve something

Hmmm ! He used to be undecided, but ........................

 

[tbtc]

I can't see CrossRail having any "limited stop" sections.

 

[starrymarkb]

Apparently the alternative HST upgrade would have been large enough to bring the sets under the latest UIC crash regs, further swinging towards IEP.

However expect Bombardier and Siemens to kick off when IEPlite is announced, the DfT are determined to stick with Hitachi...

 

[cle]

There has been a provisional/test timetable template published somewhere.

It had quite a lot of limited stop - they basically need to skip stop to keep journey times to Slough and beyond, and Heathrow, down.

So from what I remember, all trains stop at Ealing Broadway. Many skip Acton. Some then run fast to Southall or even Hayes, and then fast to Slough. Heathrow services provide the stopping service moreseo, but I think some are limited stop too.

Further west, some terminate at Slough, as well as Maidenhead (Reading).

 

[LE Greys]

Won't all depend on how the use of the 5 car units is planned?

The HST replacements could well come as two 5 car units semi-permanently coupled as 10 car Units. (Pointy end at one end and corridor at the other). One unit would be all standard, the other unit 2 First, one first/shop/restaurant and two standard.

That's been tried before with the Swindon Inter-City DMUs (Class 126, I think). I believe it caused no end of problems with two units ending up nose-to-tail, or even nose-to-nose. Besides, running blunt-end-first would push air resistance through the roof, probably meaning that it would be limited to 110 when that way round. Class 91s are limited under the same circumstances.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's always been a tentative aspiration.

Probably too much "politics" involved - both railway and political...

Would FGW really want Reading to become essentially an outer zone of the Underground system, with the potential oversight of City Hall on fares?

Would the Councillors of Berkshire cope with the potential political conflict with the Mayor of London (It's not that long since Red Ken was in power).

Could the planned cross-rail services cope with the significant change in passenger flows that an inter-change at Reading would bring? Got to remember a change at the newly rebuilt Reading would be far easier than one at Paddington.

Surely then Bedford and Brighton are already parts of an outer zone of the Underground system by that logic. The problems with Maidenhead are a lack of sidings and platform space. Reversing in the eastern bay at Slough would be easier, but Reading is the obvious target. I think they only went for the compromise as a means of getting the project within agreed cost levels so that they could chivvy the money out of the government at a later date (or so an insider told me once).

 

[jopsuk]

That's been tried before with the Swindon Inter-City DMUs (Class 126, I think). I believe it caused no end of problems with two units ending up nose-to-tail, or even nose-to-nose. Besides, running blunt-end-first would push air resistance through the roof, probably meaning that it would be limited to 110 when that way round. Class 91s are limited under the same circumstances.

They're not "high speed" units, but I belive there are "assymetric" EMUs running in Japan- on splitting services. They use a shorter unit at the "country" end to provide onward service, but then have a gangway when it joins the longer unit on the busy section.

I guess they're just careful about orientation.

 

[sprinterguy]

Won't all depend on how the use of the 5 car units is planned?

The HST replacements could well come as two 5 car units semi-permanently coupled as 10 car Units. (Pointy end at one end and corridor at the other). One unit would be all standard, the other unit 2 First, one first/shop/restaurant and two standard.

I think the likelihood of 5 carriage IEPlite trains being half sets is small: I think that would have been alluded to if it was the case: The Pendolinos are technically two half-sets, but have always been referred to as a single unit. What is likely here IMO is five carriage electric Meridian/Voyager style trains unfortunately. Which is complete madness, as a major Intercity artery like the GWML should have ten carriage electric units, as opposed to two five carriage units coupled together, with no corridor connections between the two, on the majority of services and single five carriage trains on others, which is probably what will happen.

I guess they're just careful about orientation.

Precisely, you'd never get that sort of level of attention to detail over here!

 

[WatcherZero]

Apparently the alternative HST upgrade would have been large enough to bring the sets under the latest UIC crash regs, further swinging towards IEP.

However expect Bombardier and Siemens to kick off when IEPlite is announced, the DfT are determined to stick with Hitachi...

Bombadier wont kickoff if they win the Thameslink contract, bit of nod nod wink wink. Siemens arent such sore losers.

 

[jopsuk]

Precisely, you'd never get that sort of level of attention to detail over here!

More than likely. here's one example. Note to Alsthom: the Japanese are able to do "hidden" gangways rather better than you did on the 458...

here's another- similar design to certain Dutch units. I like the display on the non-gangway end.

Incidentally, looking through the big list, whilst most are boring looking Metros, there's some pretty damn funky Express designs. A lot of short production runs too.

 

[swt_passenger]

The problems with Maidenhead are a lack of sidings and platform space...

Not when rebuilt under Crossrail plans. Six stabling sidings are built west of Maidenhead, and the platforms are extended.

You might as well argue Shenfield and Abbey Wood aren't suitable destinations as they haven't enough terminating platforms either, for now...

 

[Zoe]

You might as well argue Shenfield and Abbey Wood aren't suitable destinations as they haven't enough terminating platforms either, for now...

Shenfield handles the 6 tph metro service to and from Liverpool Street introduced in 1998.

 

[imagination]

Not when rebuilt under Crossrail plans. Six stabling sidings are built west of Maidenhead, and the platforms are extended.

There's certainly space for it. Whereas at Slough, if I remember right, there wouldnt be anywhere near enough space.

 

[swt_passenger]

Shenfield handles the 6 tph metro service to and from Liverpool Street introduced in 1998.

Exactly - which is why it gets two extra terminating platforms under Crossrail, as does Abbey Wood - so that they can turn round the imcreased Crossrail services of 12 tph each...

Maidenhead on the other hand only gets 4 tph terminating, due to the completely lopsided service patterns.

 

[Zoe]

Maidenhead on the other hand only gets 4 tph terminating, due to the completely lopsided service patterns.

I never did understand the need to terminate trains at Paddington rather than run more frequent service to the west. East London with its A13, A12, A406, M11, high frequency Shenfield metro and c2c services always seems to make the west look quite poor.

 

[tbtc]

You might as well argue Shenfield and Abbey Wood aren't suitable destinations as they haven't enough terminating platforms either, for now...

I would argue that Abbey Wood isn't a suitable destination, but I can see that they don't want to "overextend" Crossrail and complicate things
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I never did understand the need to terminate trains at Paddington rather than run more frequent service to the west. East London with its A13, A12, A406, M11, high frequency Shenfield metro and c2c services always seems to make the west look quite poor.

I agree.

If there are twenty four services "east" each hour but only eight "west" each hour then that seems strange to me.

 

[imagination]

Would it actually be possible to fit them all on the tracks though? Or would this be with diverting some of them to a new destination?

Bear in mind that you have other trains using the relief lines too, and will continue to do so, plus different trains have very different calling patterns.

edit: I thought it was going to be 10 heading west not 8?

 

[starrymarkb]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-n...
Stock Exchange statement
The Department for Transport (DfT) today set out its plans for
investment in the rail infrastructure and rolling stock that will
deliver more than 2,100 new rail carriages onto Britain's railways by
May 2019 and replace existing Inter-City 125 High Speed Trains (HSTs).
The 2,100 new carriages that Government will have introduced onto the
network by May 2019 will be used to help tackle overcrowding on the
busiest rail services. The total includes new carriages for the
Thameslink and Crossrail projects as well as 300 new carriages being
delivered by franchised train operators. The Government will now enter
into commercial negotiations with the franchised operators about the
exact number of carriages each will operate.
The Thameslink programme will require a fleet of around 1,200 new
electric vehicles. The Department is currently considering bids from two
consortia led by Siemens PLC and Bombardier Transportation UK Ltd. The
Department intends to make an announcement regarding the *preferred
bidder in spring 2011*. Existing electric trains from Thameslink will be
able to be deployed elsewhere on the rail network and therefore the
lines between *London and Didcot, Newbury and Oxford as well as between
Liverpool, Manchester, Preston and Blackpool will be electrified*.
On 6 July 2010, the Department published Sir Andrew Foster's review of
the Intercity Express Programme (IEP). The Department has evaluated
possible alternatives to the original IEP proposal and has narrowed the
consideration to two leading options; a revised bid from Agility Trains,
and an alternative for a fleet of all electric trains which could be
coupled to new diesel locomotives where the overhead electric wires end.
The Government will continue to assess the two remaining alternatives,
alongside a consideration of the extent of electrification on the Great
Western route, and will make a *further statement in the New Year*.
The preferred bidder for the Intercity Express Programme is Agility
Trains, a consortium consisting of Hitachi Rail Europe and John Laing.
Department for Transport
25 November 2010

Looks like IEP delayed again while DfT tries to decide what it wants...
Wires to go up to Oxford and Newbury in the meantime

 

[LE Greys]

Looks like IEP delayed again while DfT tries to decide what it wants...
Wires to go up to Oxford and Newbury in the meantime

Last major former-NSE suburban area to be electrified. About time.

As for IEP, I reckon it's a dead duck.

 

[atomicdanny]

Last major former-NSE suburban area to be electrified. About time.

As for IEP, I reckon it's a dead duck.

Uckfield?, Ashford - Ore (hastings?), Reading - Basingstoke?, Reading - Gatwick (well Wokington - Reigate!)? - although only the first would really count i think!

 

[turbo mick]

Not to me liking iam a diesel man.iam just wondering my depot is getting a new depot and carriage sidings by 2013 at Reading i guess it may have to be electrified at some point

cheers

 

[WatcherZero]

Choosing to reject the life extension of 125's and limiting options to either 5 car DEMU or 5 car EMU with Diesel Locomotives means they will have to order IEP or another new design.

 

[jopsuk]

Last major former-NSE suburban area to be electrified. About time.

As for IEP, I reckon it's a dead duck.

The Chiltern line? The other examples given are relatively quiet branches/transregional routes

 

[LE Greys]

Uckfield?, Ashford - Ore (hastings?), Reading - Basingstoke?, Reading - Gatwick (well Wokington - Reigate!)? - although only the first would really count i think!

Major! (Sorry, Chiltern )

 

[atomicdanny]

Major! (Sorry, Chiltern )

My mistake (i forgot that one as well though )

 

[LE Greys]

Anyway, assuming that the 319s retain their shoegear, the Wokington-Reigate section would be a cost-effective infill. Same for Reading-Basingstoke (or Southcote Junction-Basingstoke if they choose overhead). Otherwise, more of these wasteful diesel islands in the middle of electric land.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyway, assuming that the 319s retain their shoegear, the Wokington-Reigate section would be a cost-effective infill.

Two infills in fact, Wokingham to Aldershot Sth Jn and Shalford Jn to Reigate. Ash to Guildford is already electrified.

 

[LE Greys]

Two infills in fact, Wokingham to Aldershot Sth Jn and Shalford Jn to Reigate. Ash to Guildford is already electrified.

Perhaps there's a Workingham out there somewhere as well. Half-way between Surrey and Cumberland perhaps (so roughly Warwickshire).
Apologies to the people of Wokingham.

 

[imagination]

Don't worry you aren't the only one to get it wrong. Even John Redwood (MP for Wokingham since 1987) has been known to call his constituency town "Woking" by mistake. He neither knows nor cares about the town but they still elect him as it is an ultra-safe tory seat (and has been ever since an equivalent seat was first created in 1885)

 

[anthony263]

According to a article in todays western mail the Great western mainline is only being electrified as far as Bristol with dual fuel trains being used on the services to south wales according to a senior member of Network rail.

I can say the WAG is already up in arms about this.

 

[Oswyntail]

According to a article in todays western mail the Great western mainline is only being electrified as far as Bristol with dual fuel trains being used on the services to south wales according to a senior member of Network rail.

I can say the WAG is already up in arms about this.

Sounds like an attempt by the paper to stir up indignation to make the WA insist on being included