Guiseley, Leeds Bradford Airport, Horsforth rail link proposal

[D a v e]

Hi
I'm new to the forum and would be really interested to hear some views on this proposal.
I'm aware that it may be a long way off and may never happen, but I would love to know what people think about the potential problems posed by the geography of the potential route, where exactly the junctions might be positioned and their impact on existing buildings and roads, particularly at the Guiseley end where the proposal appears to pass through existing housing.

Page 40 of this "LBA Master Plan" document shows the outline proposal for the route:
http://www.leedsbradfordairport.co....les/lba-airport/pdfs/LBIA_Masterplan_REVJ.pdf

Leeds Bradford International Airport
Masterplan 2005-2016 (key extracts)

New road and rail surface access links have therefore been
proposed to the Airport

• A new direct road link from the A65;
• A new fixed rail link, currently being investigated as part of a review of the Harrogate line.

The rail link could provide additional light or heavy rail capacity linking the
Wharfdale and Airedale lines and offering an alternative route between
Leeds and Bradford and enabling trains for example to link Bradford to
Harrogate and York via Guiseley and the Airport.

...Assess the need for a transport interchange including a possible
park and ride facility on a site adjacent to the Airport. A park and
ride facility, associated with a fast train link to either Leeds or
Bradford, would add further weight to the case for a rail link, as it
would offer a valuable public transport alternative to the private car...

Apologies if there is already a thread about this somewhere, but I couldn't find anything in my search.

 

[yorkie]

I'm new to the forum

Welcome!

I have edited your post to include some relevant quotes from the PDF document, to make it easier for our blind members and users of mobile devices that cannot easily access PDF documents and/or navigate to external links and back, also for the benefit of people reading this in years to come when the hyperlink may not work.

Apologies if there is already a thread about this somewhere, but I couldn't find anything in my search.

I don't think there is

As for a service from York to Bradford via the Airport, I'd welcome that but I would be concerned that there may not be enough capacity on the Harrogate line for both that and the existing York to Leeds via Harrogate service, due to single line sections.

 

[Darren R]

This proposal seems to crop up fairly regularly. When I was at college in Horsforth in the late 80s it was being talked about back then! In those days though the proposal was merely for a branch from the Harrogate line north of Horsforth station to the airport. In the intervening years the idea has got more grandiose and a lot of hot air has been generated but very little else (apart from, one suspects, a good deal expended on consultants' fees.)

On paper at least, in terms of an integrated transport policy it seems to make a good deal of sense. The trouble is we don't really do joined-up thinking in this country. And, in any case, there are some fairly major obstacles to overcome - not least of which is the geography of the area. The area between the two lines is quite hilly and the drainage isn't fantastic, and added to that in order to be able to connect onto the Ilkley line north of Esholt Junction to allow both Bradford and Leeds bound services the line would have to take a wide curve cutting a swathe through Nunroyd Park and Guiseley. Yeadon Tarn would probably be in the way too, and a tunnel would be required beneath the airport and Horsforth Golf Club.

Tunnelling would be both difficult and expensive, and as mentioned drainage would be an issue - I believe it is a major problem keeping Bramhope Tunnel dry.

The other obstacle would be a fairly major outbreak of Nimbyism (for lack of a less pejorative word.) As I recall the residents of Horsforth could barely keep their dislike of students concealed - I really can't see them being terrible happy about such major disruption to their lives over several years, let alone the destruction of countryside (and even worse - the Golf Club!) Think of the house prices!

All in all, I just can't ever see it happening. There just isn't the political will, and unless things have changed since I lived in Horsforth there never will be the political will - because that's where all the councillors live!

 

[snowball]

There were some items in the news a few months ago about a possible tram-train link to the airport. I thought the one I saw was only about a link to/from Leeds, but searching the web now I just find ones like this, about a link going both east and west from the airport, like the one in your document:

25 January, 2013 | By NCE Editorial

A cross party group of MPs have met with transport minister Norman Baker to push forward plans for tram-train link between the city centres of Leeds and Bradford with Leeds-Bradford airport this week.

There seems to be a contrast between the airport map on page 38 of your document and the surrounding area map on p.40. The former seems to show that some care has gone into selecting the route shown, whereas the latter seems to be at a very sketchy stage, and seems to link to the Leeds-Harrogate line in the middle of a tunnel.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Tram-Train link is what they want but they would be stupid to do it. The study i did for uni showed the extra costs associated with Tram-Train in this case would destroy the project. They claim gradients but i mapped out gradients that easily allowed you to get a 333 up there (or similar)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Tram-Train link is what they want but they would be stupid to do it. The study i did for uni showed the extra costs associated with Tram-Train in this case would destroy the project. They claim gradients but i mapped out gradients that easily allowed you to get a 333 up there (or similar)

Absolutely. Tram-Train works fine in Germany in cities that already have an existing tram network. It might even work in Rotherham & Sheffield because again there's already a tramway. To suggest one for Leeds is ridiculous. I can only assume Metro have a bee in their bonnet about it because they expect it to be cheaper than a full heavy-rail proposal but as there are no suitable vehicles in production the difference in cost would be pretty small if there is any savings to be had at all!

 

[Ploughman]

Early 90s there was a proposal as part of Leeds NW to reinstate the Baildon branch from Greenbottom Tunnel up to the Airport.
Nothing more came of it though.
Junction would have meant a reversal at Guiseley for traffic from Leeds.

 

[bluenoxid]

Tram-Train link is what they want but they would be stupid to do it. The study i did for uni showed the extra costs associated with Tram-Train in this case would destroy the project. They claim gradients but i mapped out gradients that easily allowed you to get a 333 up there (or similar)

Really? I would be interested to see your calculations. A lot of people start at the Harrogate line but forget that the gradient needs to start and you have to be flat at the station.

The whole project is a continued dream but sadly, trains are really not the best method for serving an airport. Check in Desks open at 04:30 at most UK airports and final flights can still be arriving at around 00:00. You need a virtually 24 hour service and rail struggles to deliver this effectively compared to a bus.

I would be supportive of seeing electrification reach Horsforth and some form of ULTRA put in to link Horsforth with LBIA. It could have the dual benefits of offering parking for Leeds commuters and access to LBIA for rail passengers.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Really? I would be interested to see your calculations. A lot of people start at the Harrogate line but forget that the gradient needs to start and you have to be flat at the station.

The whole project is a continued dream but sadly, trains are really not the best method for serving an airport. Check in Desks open at 04:30 at most UK airports and final flights can still be arriving at around 00:00. You need a virtually 24 hour service and rail struggles to deliver this effectively compared to a bus.

I would be supportive of seeing electrification reach Horsforth and some form of ULTRA put in to link Horsforth with LBIA. It could have the dual benefits of offering parking for Leeds commuters and access to LBIA for rail passengers.

Calculations for which part?