Guildford to Croydon

[maniacmartin]

Considering Woking to Redhill season tickets:

I'm also not sure why SWT has made a Clapham Junction and also a cheaper Not Via London routed ticket as the Not Via London appears to be valid via Clapham Junction anyway at a cursory glance.

I agree that the Woking to Redhill not via London ticket is valid on both routes between Guildford and East Croydon, but I certainly would not expect any ticket clerk to know about and offer such a ticket if I asked them "can i buy a season ticket from Guildford to East Croydon that allows travel both via Clapham Junction and via Redhill?", unless I had explicitly asked them to check Woking to Redhill!

If this is a particular issue to many passengers, then a better solution would be for a TOC to introduce a Guildford - East Croydon rte Any Permitted or rte via Clapham Junction etc ticket. That way the passenger could buy the most expensive of this new ticket and the via Redhill tickets, and it would be valid on both routes.

 

[John @ home]

The problem was "can i buy a season ticket from Guildford to East Croydon that allows travel both via Clapham Junction and via Redhill?"

johnnycache, you may wish to read our earlier debates about East Croydon - Guildford tickets, following queries from GodAtum:

• Week ticket from East Croydon - Guildford in January 2011, and
• East Croydon - Guildford route in May and June 2012.

The following Woking to Redhill choices are available from brfares.com

route any permitted (cross-London marker) - no seasons

The recommended season ticket would be a 7-day Travelcard Woking - Redhill route London Zones 1-6, costing (at 2012 rates) £173.90 First Class or £109.60 Standard.

Calculation of Standard ticket
WOK-0035 7TS £86.30 plus RDH-0035 7TS £76.70 minus ECR*-0035 7TS £53.40
Total £109.60
* = or any other station within Zones 1-6.

route Clapham Junction seven day season £80.50
route Gomshall seven day season £59.40
route Not Via London seven day season £66.50 ...

the Not Via London route should be valid on all routes that don't actually include a London Terminal and since Woking Redhill includes maps CS+PD i think it should be ok via both Clapham Junction and Redhill

I agree that a £66.50 Standard or £109.70 First Class Season Ticket Woking - Redhill route Not Via London is valid for use Croydon - Guildford via Redhill or via Clapham Jn using map combination PD+CS.

 

[RJ]

I'm inclined to say its ok because i can't find a rule against it. So we would state the policy as follows:

"If a passenger holds a season ticket that entitles them to travel between their origin and destination stations over a number of permitted routes they are allowed to make any journeys they wish to over those routes including on trains that pass through their origin and/or destination stations without stopping".

As a passenger, I wouldn't argue against anything which has a solely beneficial impact on passengers. However, if people want flexibility within London, they already have the option to buy a season Travelcard. Condition 19 shouldn't even be coming up in this topic, because that only pertains to journeys where more than one ticket is being used. A season ticket is a ticket which by definition is valid in either direction.

To be honest, I don't think it needs to be written in the NRCoC that a ticket is not valid on a train that passes through the origin or destination without stopping. To suggest otherwise would defy logic. Condition 19c is a special dispensation which is reasonable as season ticket holders should be given the flexibility to use any train to the new destination if extending their season ticket, given there is no way to over-distance excess a season ticket.

I see what we're getting at here - the ticket covers the whole journey. Yes, the ticket is valid to arrive at the station from either direction but there is a discontinuity if passing through the station without stopping, because logic dictates that a journey begins and ends at the stations shown on the ticket.

The mentality I'm taking is, this passenger using that ticket cannot making a journey from East Croydon to Clapham Junction. If they are then the ticket cannot logically be valid. So long as the destination on that ticket is Streatham Common, they can only be making a journey from wherever to Streatham Common and another from Streatham Common to Clapham Junction, so the train needs to stop at Streatham Common. If this condition is passed, it means the railway is purveying the idea that you can end a journey whilst whizzing through the station at 70mph. I don't think this will do anything to aid simplicity.

I don't think any passenger will begrudge an extra right being granted. Personally I feel that it's an unnecessary right and one which could potentially lead to negative impacts elsewhere in the future. It's probably best that a Condition 19c split is offered as a solution.

 

[globetrotter]

I don't think any passenger will begrudge an extra right being granted. Personally I feel that it's an unnecessary right and one which could potentially lead to negative impacts elsewhere in the future. It's probably best that a Condition 19c split is offered as a solution.

I agree that a £66.50 Standard or £109.70 First Class Season Ticket Woking - Redhill route Not Via London is valid for use Croydon - Guildford via Redhill or via Clapham Jn using map combination PD+CS.

The recommended season ticket would be a 7-day Travelcard Woking - Redhill route London Zones 1-6, costing (at 2012 rates) £173.90 First Class or £109.60 Standard.

I think the wider question is that changing passenger rights here could have unforeseen impacts on other tickets across the country, so it seems unlikely to obtain agreement at ATOC level.

I only find WX as a permitted route from Woking to Clapham Junction but I see from Southern's site that travel via Redhill appears to be permitted. Without going back through all the history on earlier threads, it would be helpful to people like me following this thread if it were summarised how it might be valid so that we can understand more about the underlying principles here.

A Farncombe to Croydon Stations 7-Day Travelcard season is only £98.40. The Route Not London season at £75.30 requires that trains stop at Clapham Junction. No First Class options. There are rush hour trains from Clapham Junction to Guildford, some non-stop (i.e. not stopping at Woking) and others via Effingham Junction.

As a principle, surely the ideal ticket is one where the routeing can readily be explained as valid if challenged without using arcane arguments like distance according to complicated calculations? In other words not only validity but perceived validity, especially on a season ticket. And where appropriate the ideal season ticket also offers a number of routes to choose from.

Farncombe is associated with Havant as well as Guildford Routeing Points and according to my research travel on a Farncombe-Croydon Stations not via London season ticket is valid from Guildford via for example any of the following:
Woking
Clapham Junction
Effingham Junction then via Epsom or via Claygate or Via Sutton
Redhill
Box Hill (walking between Dorking Stations)
and of course between Guildford and Gomshall or v.v. (on another thread)