Guildford platform 2 operations

[MarkHaz]

Could somebody enlighten me on how platform 2 is used at Guildford today and in the past? It seems like an odd one because sometimes it's used as a through platform and sometimes trains reverse there. What is the logic on when it's used for what?

Looking at the sectional appendix and photos/videos, it seems like it's currently a 12 car length for through trains, but only 8 cars for trains that turn back towards London, because the up direction signal is part way down the platform, before a crossover.
I can see that a platform extension was put in at the southern end back in 2013 (at the same time that the bay platform 1 was extended for 10 car operation), and I'm sure I've seen a 10 car 455/455/456 set in there in the past, so the 8 car note in the sectional appendix surprises me.
Perhaps it's out of date, and that's what it used to be?

Which leads me to my last question, what did the car stop marker at the southern end used to say before the platforms were extended? Was it an 8 car stop or maybe 6?

Thanks!

 

[DelW]

My recollection (which could be suspect after this length of time) is that in the early 1970s when I first used the station, platforms 2 and 3 were the regular platforms for Portsmouth trains. The fast trains were normally 12-car (CIG/BIG/CIG), while stoppers were more likely to be VEPs, possibly 8-car off peak and 12-car peak.

Having moved away in the mid seventies, when I came back around the nineties, platforms 4 and 5 had become the main Portsmouth platforms, and 2 and 3 were mainly used for New Line services that couldn't get into p1, or that laid over for an extended period. That still seems to be the case now, from casual observation.

All the above from memory and subject to correction

 

[LambicHedgehog]

The 8-car restriction for trains towards London would appear to be out of date. 10-car 458/5s turn back towards London in platform 2 routinely, as did the last remaining pair of 707s until last week. For example: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L58879/2024-09-05/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Big Jumby 74]

what did the car stop marker at the southern end used to say before the platforms were extended? Was it an 8 car stop or maybe 6?

May be wrong, but given the nature of the location I suspect the stop marker would have been a simple 'S' (Stop) mark, same as numerical stop marks, but without any reference to specific number (of cars).

 

[MarkHaz]

The 8-car restriction for trains towards London would appear to be out of date. 10-car 458/5s turn back towards London in platform 2 routinely, as did the last remaining pair of 707s until last week. For example: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L58879/2024-09-05/detailed#allox_id=0

Thanks, that does make more sense to me, but I assumed the Sectional Appendix would be accurate. Perhaps a bad assumption?!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2024 ==

May be wrong, but given the nature of the location I suspect the stop marker would have been a simple 'S' (Stop) mark, same as numerical stop marks, but without any reference to specific number (of cars).

Oh good point. Probably!

 

[slicedbread]

Could somebody enlighten me on how platform 2 is used at Guildford today and in the past? It seems like an odd one because sometimes it's used as a through platform and sometimes trains reverse there. What is the logic on when it's used for what?

When I'm on a Portsmouth bound train that's come via the New Line they tend to stop at 2 unless its got 455 sat at in which case it will be platform 3. With the Portsmouth trains via Woking it tends to be platform 4.

I've always assumed that the lines for platform 2 and 3 are the original lines of the Portsmouth Direct Line as they run through the brick arch of the Farnham Road bridge. Although most Portsmouth trains going via Woking use 4 and 5 now.

 

[swt_passenger]

When I'm on a Portsmouth bound train that's come via the New Line they tend to stop at 2 unless its got 455 sat at in which case it will be platform 3. With the Portsmouth trains via Woking it tends to be platform 4.

I've always assumed that the lines for platform 2 and 3 are the original lines of the Portsmouth Direct Line as they run through the brick arch of the Farnham Road bridge. Although most Portsmouth trains going via Woking use 4 and 5 now.

I looked at the 1940s track layout on a large scale old OS map, and it certainly looked as if there was a faster two track route off the Woking lines crossing over into P2/P3, and at the south end of the station the routes to/from P4/P5 were the slower layout, with only a single lead connection, note the marked sand drag:

Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland

 

[Gloster]

I started there in 1978 and my recollection is that it was:
1 - New Line
2 - Down oddments (New line or Main Line Stoppers)
3 - Up oddments
4 - Down Fast and Semi-fast plus Reading-Tonbridge
5 - Up Fast and Semi-fast
6 - Tonbridge-Reading and the odd Up Stopper
8 - Ascot Line

 

[Big Jumby 74]

When I'm on a Portsmouth bound train that's come via the New Line they tend to stop at 2 unless its got 455 sat at in which case it will be platform 3. With the Portsmouth trains via Woking it tends to be platform 4.

I've always assumed that the lines for platform 2 and 3 are the original lines of the Portsmouth Direct Line as they run through the brick arch of the Farnham Road bridge. Although most Portsmouth trains going via Woking use 4 and 5 now.

Point one would be generally correct in todays world, although the specific usage of p2 or p4 for Down Main Pompey trains (via Woking) has changed one way or other at certain times (timetable wise over the years - I remember such discussions in my time) due, amongst other things, to differing ideas between those planning the timetable.

Point two, you are correct, the roads through p2 & p3 were the original 'main lines' between Woking and Pompey. The station building was always where it still is, and there was an overall roof spanning out across p2, the Down and Up lines and p3. What is now p4 seems to have had an overall awning with supports located to the West of the track through p4 (ie: in what is now the '6 foot' between the Down and Up roads between todays p4 & 5 if that makes sense). For the length of the overall roof as referred to above, on the island platform of what is p3/p4, there appears to be in the early days a separating wall supporting the West side of the overall roof along the middle of said island platform. The original footbridge, which only went from p2 to p3, was near enough in the same place as the present footbridge from what I can tell*.

* I would recommend you acquire a copy of the Middleton Press book. 'Woking to Portsmouth', and you will understand my theories!

Over the years, as the suburban routes entering Guildford at the London end, have increased in usage (more trains p/h arriving/departing) the associated Main (Woking) line and platform usage has slowly migrated Westwards with new platforms being added along the way, albeit the essential layout of 8 platform faces was probably well established during HM Victoria's reign, although I don't have any exact timeline detail of the station's rebuiding over those years.

 

[Meerkat]

The station building was always where it still is

To be really pedantic isnt The current station building to the south of the one it replaced? Or is it just the entrance that has moved?

 

[Gloster]

In 1978 the entrance from the town side was much nearer the footbridge than the current entrance: that building had been there since L&SWR days I should think. Was there a different building between that one and the current one?

 

[swt_passenger]

To be really pedantic isnt The current station building to the south of the one it replaced? Or is it just the entrance that has moved?

I think it’s smaller now but still within the original footprint. The side by side maps in my earlier post are useful for comparing, even better if you switch to “Swipe On”.

 

[DelW]

In 1978 the entrance from the town side was much nearer the footbridge than the current entrance: that building had been there since L&SWR days I should think. Was there a different building between that one and the current one?

My hazy memory of the early 1970s was than the southernmost (probably oldest) part of the station building was boarded up and verging on derelict. There was a newer looking building to the north of it that also wasn't in passenger use. The actual passenger entrance was via a temporary looking, possibly timber, building further north again and close to the east end of the footbridge. That might have survived as (or with) a Red Star parcel office which was also at that end of the building.

The whole ensemble was very run down and decrepit, and the rebuilding was a huge improvement and well overdue.

I wish I'd taken some photos of the station as it was, but if I had I probably wouldn't be able to find them now anyway!

 

[swt_passenger]

I’ve found some 1960s and 70s images of the previous buildings online here:

Archive photographs of Guildford train station through the decades from the Surrey Advertiser vaults

www.getsurrey.co.uk

 

[Gloster]

My recollection is that the main entrance was somewhere under the awning in the distance in the last b/w photo (the one with the Mini Clubman). The other building (as seen in the first colour photo) and the structures in between were various Station Master’s offices. Right at the south end of platform 2 in the building was the Station Supervisors’ Office and some of the other rooms may still have been in use, although possibly only occasionally. My mess room was on the first floor above the Supervisors’ Office, but I merely collected my stuff in the morning and then decamped to the mess room on 7/8: the steps were outside their door, so they could see who went in and out (and when), and it was also pretty tatty. And there was a permanent boiler on 7/8.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Over the years, as the suburban routes entering Guildford at the London end, have increased in usage (more trains p/h arriving/departing) the associated Main (Woking) line and platform usage has slowly migrated Westwards with new platforms being added along the way, albeit the essential layout of 8 platform faces was probably well established during HM Victoria's reign, although I don't have any exact timeline detail of the station's rebuiding over those years.

Before the 1990s bay platform 1 largely sufficed for the ‘new line’ trains as the via Epsom services only ran as far down as Effingham so there were less trains Effingham to Guildford.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

To be really pedantic isnt The current station building to the south of the one it replaced?

It may well be? Should have said it is alongside/at the back of platform 2, as per the original, that was where I was coming from as I guess you guessed...but it has provoked a few more excellently detailed comments. Bonus

 

[DelW]

I’ve found some 1960s and 70s images of the previous buildings online here:

Archive photographs of Guildford train station through the decades from the Surrey Advertiser vaults

www.getsurrey.co.uk

Interesting pictures, the 1976 photos don't look as bad as I thought I remembered. The platform view does show scaffolding up on the back of the building, so maybe some repairs were being made at the time.

 

[Surreyman]

Previous posters have pretty much covered it. As already noted, most of the time platform 2 is used by terminating trains coming off the new line (Effingham Jct) sharing these with platforms 1 & 3.
I would add that sometimes at weekends in the late evening, through Portsmouth & Haslemere trains use platform 2, I assume the reasons are that: -
1. There are fewer Effingham line terminators, so P2 can be kept free.
2. Passengers alighting are right by the main exit, so less distance to walk.
Presumably this happens at the initiative of the signalling staff?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Presumably this happens at the initiative of the signalling staff?

All such moves will be part of the timetable plan, be it base plan, or amended for engineering works. As an aside platforms 3 and 8 are/were in my time (probably still the same?) required to be kept clear of stabled trains overnight as part of the base plan, to allow for such things as sandite trains etc to access a majority of routes. This scenario was amended for engineering work occasionally, but a through route was always kept clear.

 

[Gloster]

In my day there was only the half-hourly New Line service, which could be kept to Platform 1, although one or two peak extras used 2 or 3, but either had arrived e.c.s. or went away as one. For a while in the mid-1970s there was one Up New Line in the middle of the afternoon that went off 3, possibly because they switched from one to two sets. I remember that my mother used to be livid if she forgot and had to catch that one as she had to use the bridge.

 

[OxtedL]

Previous posters have pretty much covered it. As already noted, most of the time platform 2 is used by terminating trains coming off the new line (Effingham Jct) sharing these with platforms 1 & 3.
I would add that sometimes at weekends in the late evening, through Portsmouth & Haslemere trains use platform 2, I assume the reasons are that: -
1. There are fewer Effingham line terminators, so P2 can be kept free.
2. Passengers alighting are right by the main exit, so less distance to walk.
Presumably this happens at the initiative of the signalling staff?

As already briefly covered earlier in the thread, trains to/from Haslemere that use platforms 2&3 at Guildford have run non-stop via Cobham and Effingham Junction. This is for crew route knowledge retention in case of engineering works via Woking. These trains physically can't use 4&5 so your given reasons aren't really relevant.

 

[Surreyman]

As already briefly covered earlier in the thread, trains to/from Haslemere that use platforms 2&3 at Guildford have run non-stop via Cobham and Effingham Junction. This is for crew route knowledge retention in case of engineering works via Woking. These trains physically can't use 4&5 so your given reasons aren't really relevant.

I understand that, if they use the 'new Line' - indeed my wife often catches a Waterloo fast that takes that route from P3, however, I have on a number of occasions caught a late evening train from Waterloo that has used P2.

 

[Gloster]

There always used to be more fast Up trains via the New Line than Downs as that meant they avoided having to crossover the Down Brookwoods at Woking.

 

[satisnek]

I have an early memory of Pompey fasts departing from Platform 2 and the Modern Railways article covering the 1965 resignalling states that through main line services used P2 Down and P5 Up. But as mentioned, 81 and 82 services were using P4 and P5 by the late 1970s. Although I have never found confirmation, I suspect that the 1976 collision brought about this change - had the platforming been transposed then such a collision wouldn't have occurred.

As for the building, the ground floor of the two-storey bit at the southern end housed the station buffet, which I believe survived until the end. There was a problem with the booking hall roof sometime around 1970(?) and it was replaced with a flat roof totally out of keeping with the rest of the building. The Surrey Advertiser photos linked to above show both incarnations. However, I don't know if the booking hall ever reopened. I can remember looking into a smart, refurbished, unused facility but by then there was a 'temporary' wooden ticket office at the north end which lasted until reconstruction in the 1980s.