Guildford hit by several engineering blockades simultaneously

[Deepgreen]

Apologies if this has been covered in another thread - I couldn't find one. The Guildford area is to be hit by what could be regarded as conflicting engineering blockades next week as the Reading route and the Portsmouth route are both to be closed simultaneously. I wonder what planning criteria went into this decision - obviously each route doesn't offer an obvious alternative to the other, but it seems to put Guildford into an unfortunate position regarding available rail links for the week.

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder what planning criteria went into this decision - obviously each route doesn't offer an obvious alternative to the other, but it seems to put Guildford into an unfortunate position regarding available rail links for the week.

Presumably it fits with local school half terms. If work has to be done that takes a full week blockade, it is arguably better to close two lines than one, to coincide with half term than one now and another in April.

There is a fair amount of school traffic into Guildford, and it helps with the availability of road transport.

 

[Surreyman]

Presumably it fits with local school half terms. If work has to be done that takes a full week blockade, it is arguably better to close two lines than one, to coincide with half term than one now and another in April.

There is a fair amount of school traffic into Guildford, and it helps with the availability of road transport.

Completely agree, the 'school run' here is worse than the traditional rush hour, you don't want to be driving between 3-4.30 pm.
Rail closures with bus substitution seems to have become so common in the last few years that people have become used to it.
There have been plenty of delays on the Portsmouth line this week - ongoing signalling probably.

 

[Deepgreen]

Presumably it fits with local school half terms. If work has to be done that takes a full week blockade, it is arguably better to close two lines than one, to coincide with half term than one now and another in April.

There is a fair amount of school traffic into Guildford, and it helps with the availability of road transport.

A fair point and I did wonder if half-term was a factor. There's no right time for these things, but of course this stymies any hope of people using the railway for half-term leisure trips. Perhaps no-one does anyway - sadly.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Apologies if this has been covered in another thread - I couldn't find one. The Guildford area is to be hit by what could be regarded as conflicting engineering blockades next week as the Reading route and the Portsmouth route are both to be closed simultaneously. I wonder what planning criteria went into this decision - obviously each route doesn't offer an obvious alternative to the other, but it seems to put Guildford into an unfortunate position regarding available rail links for the week.

Is there a reason for the closures? And for how long?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2023 ==

The 'school run' here is worse than the traditional rush hour, you don't want to be driving between 3-4.30 pm.
Rail closures with bus substitution seems to have become so common in the last few years that people have become used to it.

Aha ong

 

[JonathanH]

Is there a reason for the closures?

You would certainly hope so.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/wessex/portsmouth-direct-upgrade/

Planned works
Saturday 11 to Sunday 19 February 2023 – Guildford to Petersfield line closure

The line between Guildford and Petersfield will be closed for nine consecutive days. On Sunday 19 February, the line between Gomshall and Guildford will also be closed.

Engineers will install a new and improved set of switches and crossings in Haslemere, an essential part of the Portsmouth Direct Upgrade that will allow the line speed to be increased in 2024.

More work as part of the F2P project will be carried out along with a large package of general maintenance.

https://news.gwr.com/news/rail-upgrades-to-affect-services-between-reading-and-guildford

From Monday 13 to Friday 17 February (half-term week), replacement buses will run between Reading and Guildford with an hourly train service continuing between Guildford and Gatwick Airport. Buses will be timed to connect with trains.

GWR Regional Station Manager for the line Steven Hawker thanked passengers in advance for their patience and advised them to plan ahead before travelling.

He said:

“These works are essential to maintaining and improving the railway and while it has been timed for half-term to interrupt as few customers as possible, we thank those travelling for their patience during this time.

“Buses will replace Great Western Railway trains between Reading and Guildford while Network Rail carry out these improvements, and we encourage passengers to check their journey beforehand.”

The five-day closure will allow Network Rail to carry out track renewals and signalling upgrades in the Wokingham area to help provide a reliable and resilient service.

Mark Killick, Network Rail’s Wessex route director, said:

"It’s really great to see phase three and four of this huge re-signalling project taking place. The current signalling system dates back to the early 1970s and during a long-term programme we’ve been modernising it to improve reliability across the Southern region.

"We’re aware that Wessex route can sometimes be one of the worst affected in terms of signalling issues and completing this work will help prevent those incidents and will allow us to increase capacity for trains with fewer delays, improved safety and lower running costs.

"We’d like to thank customers for their patience and bearing with us."

 

[Fazaar1889]

You would certainly hope so.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/wessex/portsmouth-direct-upgrade/


https://news.gwr.com/news/rail-upgrades-to-affect-services-between-reading-and-guildford

Ah thanks man

 

[DelW]

At least there are RRBs on the Direct this time, running at a similar frequency to the current train timetable. Around Christmas and the New Year there were extended periods with at best an hourly all-stations shuttle train to Woking, or at worst nothing at all.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

At least there are RRBs on the Direct this time, running at a similar frequency to the current train timetable. Around Christmas and the New Year there were extended periods with at best an hourly all-stations shuttle train to Woking, or at worst nothing at all.

On those days you mention there was industrial action taking place where it is not the norm to provide alternative services as is the case during routine planned engineering works.

 

[richw]

Half term seems a poor choice for the Reading to Gatwick service with many people travelling to and from Gatwick for trips away.

Me and my children are impacted on our travel to Gatwick and will now travel via Paddington, Farringdon and Thameslink instead rather than use the rail replacement

 

[JonathanH]

Half term seems a poor choice for the Reading to Gatwick service with many people travelling to and from Gatwick for trips away.

It would be worse to disrupt school children getting to their place of education by doing it during term time.

As you have noted, you can make alternative arrangements to avoid the replacement bus.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Me and my children are impacted on our travel to Gatwick and will now travel via Paddington, Farringdon and Thameslink instead rather than use the rail replacement

And you have an alternative route, students trying to get to/from educational establishments along the line aren’t so lucky, hence why the closure is during the half term break.

To a degree the travel to/from Gatwick airport has been mitigated by the line being open on the weekend at the start of half term and for the weekend at the end of half term which is where the majority to make their travel arrangements for a whole week away.

 

[Deepgreen]

This is the BBC's take on it, for what it's worth.

Analysis​

By Paul Clifton, BBC South transport correspondent
The work means considerable disruption next week.
At Hook, buses replace trains from 22:00 GMT each night to enable overnight closures as the tracks are put back into place.
They can't send trains down the Portsmouth line, because that closes tonight for nine days of engineering blockade.
And with the Reading to Waterloo line closed Monday to Friday between Reading and Bracknell, it means all the major SWR routes are either blocked or severely disrupted by infrastructure issues all next week.
I can't recall that ever happening before.

 

[zwk500]

This is the BBC's take on it, for what it's worth.

Analysis​

By Paul Clifton, BBC South transport correspondent
The work means considerable disruption next week.
At Hook, buses replace trains from 22:00 GMT each night to enable overnight closures as the tracks are put back into place.
They can't send trains down the Portsmouth line, because that closes tonight for nine days of engineering blockade.
And with the Reading to Waterloo line closed Monday to Friday between Reading and Bracknell, it means all the major SWR routes are either blocked or severely disrupted by infrastructure issues all next week.
I can't recall that ever happening before.

The major engineering works cannot be fairly expected to have predicted that a major embankment slip would have taken place. So they are left with 3 choices: cancel either of the planned works, postpone the repair at Hook, or take the hit for a couple of nights.
Cancelling the planned works on the Haslemere section would have a major impact on the overall resignalling project. Cancelling the Wokingham area works would mean waiting another 1-2 years for the next opportunity. Putting off the Hook works means even more disruption and pain in the meantime along with more disruption when they do put the line back.
Is there a better option than to bite the bullet and get on with the works as quickly as possible?

 

[Fazaar1889]

This is the BBC's take on it, for what it's worth.

Analysis​

By Paul Clifton, BBC South transport correspondent
The work means considerable disruption next week.
At Hook, buses replace trains from 22:00 GMT each night to enable overnight closures as the tracks are put back into place.
They can't send trains down the Portsmouth line, because that closes tonight for nine days of engineering blockade.
And with the Reading to Waterloo line closed Monday to Friday between Reading and Bracknell, it means all the major SWR routes are either blocked or severely disrupted by infrastructure issues all next week.
I can't recall that ever happening before.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64594633

Not sure if its the same article but this BBC article mentions it. Along side the Woking-Basingstoke Landslip and the A3 resurfacing works, that's a lot of disruption around the area

 

[30907]

This is the BBC's take on it, for what it's worth.

Analysis​

By Paul Clifton, BBC South transport correspondent
The work means considerable disruption next week.
At Hook, buses replace trains from 22:00 GMT each night to enable overnight closures as the tracks are put back into place.
They can't send trains down the Portsmouth line, because that closes tonight for nine days of engineering blockade.
And with the Reading to Waterloo line closed Monday to Friday between Reading and Bracknell, it means all the major SWR routes are either blocked or severely disrupted by infrastructure issues all next week.

RRBs after 2200 is hardly severe disruption, surely, and the Portsmouth Direct pretty irrelevant for most SWML users anyway?
My knowledge of the road network in the area is poor, but is Waterloo-Reading a significant alternative for the Fleet/Winchfield area?

 

[zwk500]

RRBs after 2200 is hardly severe disruption, surely, and the Portsmouth Direct pretty irrelevant for most SWML users anyway?
My knowledge of the road network in the area is poor, but is Waterloo-Reading a significant alternative for the Fleet/Winchfield area?

If you're in Farnborough then having both (Main) and North out of action would be inconvenient, to be sure.

 

[30907]

If you're in Farnborough then having both (Main) and North out of action would be inconvenient, to be sure.

Fair comment - is North via Guildford quicker than Woking and RRB? That is, assuming there will be RRBs.

 

[zwk500]

Fair comment - is North via Guildford quicker than Woking and RRB? That is, assuming there will be RRBs.

No idea. suppose it depends where your ultimate destination is and what's happening at 2200.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Historically jobs like this were done over 52hr weekends and had it not been for covid and change to NRCs i suspect SWR & GWR would have pushed back against this level of disruption. Im all for blockades but they used to be reserved for much bigger jobs not just replacing a set of points at Haslemere and this is second 9 day closure in 6mths and there is another one to commission it still to come.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If you're in Farnborough then having both (Main) and North out of action would be inconvenient, to be sure.

Trains are still running London to Farnborough and v.v. which after 22.00 is the majority flow.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Farnborough (Main) between 2300 and 0200 on 14/02/2023

Train information at Farnborough (Main) between 2300 and 0200 on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Passengers for Basingstoke and stations west off can travel from Paddington to Reading and then to Basingstoke to avoid the bus. The last journey opportunity this way being the 22.48 from Paddington which will cover most journey opportunities.

 

[Snow1964]

It's looking like SWR and Network Rail are going for stonking set of line closures and bustitutions weekend of 25th, 26th March

Saturday:
Buses replace trains between:

• Surbiton and Woking.
• Weybridge and Woking.
• Weybridge and Basingstoke.
• Weybridge and Aldershot.
• Basingstoke and Woking.
• Guildford and Woking.
• Guildford and Basingstoke.
• Staines and Virginia Water.

Sunday:
Buses replace trains between:

• Basingstoke and Woking.
• Basingstoke and Weybridge.
• Guildford and Weybridge.
• Hounslow and Woking.
• Aldershot and Weybridge.
• Staines and Reading.
• Staines and Woking.
• Ascot and Aldershot.

All weekend
Buses will replace trains between New Malden and Shepperton / Twickenham.

And for those west of Basingstoke who thought going via Reading Engineering work is taking place between Reading and Basingstoke, closing all lines on Sunday morning.

Before 08:30, buses will replace trains between Reading and Basingstoke.

Engineering work is taking place between Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton, closing some lines from 08:00 until 18:00.

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's looking like SWR and Network Rail are going for stonking set of line closures and bustitutions weekend of 25th, 26th March

Saturday:
Buses replace trains between:

• Surbiton and Woking.
• Weybridge and Woking.
• Weybridge and Basingstoke.
• Weybridge and Aldershot.
• Basingstoke and Woking.
• Guildford and Woking.
• Guildford and Basingstoke.
• Staines and Virginia Water.

Sunday:
Buses replace trains between:

• Basingstoke and Woking.
• Basingstoke and Weybridge.
• Guildford and Weybridge.
• Hounslow and Woking.
• Aldershot and Weybridge.
• Staines and Reading.
• Staines and Woking.
• Ascot and Aldershot.

All weekend
Buses will replace trains between New Malden and Shepperton / Twickenham.

And for those west of Basingstoke who thought going via Reading Engineering work is taking place between Reading and Basingstoke, closing all lines on Sunday morning.

Before 08:30, buses will replace trains between Reading and Basingstoke.

Engineering work is taking place between Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton, closing some lines from 08:00 until 18:00.

Find details of current incidents | National Rail

A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

This where teh industry really needs to change its approach. Weve just had a blockade between reading and staines which is perfectly fine but there is no point in extended closures if you don't remove normal abnormals for at least a coupe of years. The industry is spending a fortune on engineering works when it needs to be generating income.

 

[The Planner]

This where teh industry really needs to change its approach. Weve just had a blockade between reading and staines which is perfectly fine but there is no point in extended closures if you don't remove normal abnormals for at least a coupe of years. The industry is spending a fortune on engineering works when it needs to be generating income.

And if the backlog of work is that large? This isnt going to get any better over CP7 anywhere.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And if the backlog of work is that large? This isnt going to get any better over CP7 anywhere.

Well if the railway is shut more than its open it will be costing money instead of earning it and the losses will mount up and the DfT will cut more services and less people will use it and where will that leave the industry. All im advocating is that Blockades create great opportunities for the industry to rethink the way it approaches managing routes by concentrating all heavy maintenance as well as big capex works into a period of time such that route is then left alone for a considerable period of time. This approach is practiced widely across European railway administrations although to be fair they tend to be multi week blockades but then the railway then just need minor maintenance done in overnights and extended Sat/Sundays mornings.

 

[zwk500]

Well if the railway is shut more than its open it will be costing money instead of earning it and the losses will mount up and the DfT will cut more services and less people will use it and where will that leave the industry. All im advocating is that Blockades create great opportunities for the industry to rethink the way it approaches managing routes by concentrating all heavy maintenance as well as big capex works into a period of time such that route is then left alone for a considerable period of time. This approach is practiced widely across European railway administrations although to be fair they tend to be multi week blockades but then the railway then just need minor maintenance done in overnights and extended Sat/Sundays mornings.

There have been several pieces of disruption to work in Wessex between the weather, landslides, covid and strikes. There's only so long you can put work off before ESRs start being slapped down. Crawling past at 5mph is hardly any better for encouraging travel.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There have been several pieces of disruption to work in Wessex between the weather, landslides, covid and strikes.

You can't legislate for the likes of Hook and its difficult to take advantage of the extra closures its necessitated

There's only so long you can put work off before ESRs start being slapped down. Crawling past at 5mph is hardly any better for encouraging travel.

There should be no excuse on the routes that have had the extended closures not to have managed interventions to contain any condition of track TSRs to avoid an 5ESR being imposed.

 

[zwk500]

You can't legislate for the likes of Hook and its difficult to take advantage of the extra closures its necessitated

There should be no excuse on the routes that have had the extended closures not to have managed interventions to contain any condition of track TSRs to avoid an 5ESR being imposed.

What if work had been scheduled between Surbiton and Weybridge but the staff and RRV got diverted to Hook? There's only so many people who are available to do the work, they can't be in two places at once.

 

[swt_passenger]

This work around the Woking area, on 25/26 March (week 52) has been in the EAS section 7 for all four versions published so far, it’s not a recent decision at all, I suggest Hook is a red herring.

I’m sure I’ve seen many similar possessions in the past, and am wondering what it really has to do with the subject of this thread?

 

[Class 170101]

This where teh industry really needs to change its approach. Weve just had a blockade between reading and staines which is perfectly fine but there is no point in extended closures if you don't remove normal abnormals for at least a coupe of years. The industry is spending a fortune on engineering works when it needs to be generating income.

Agree with this but not seeing much interest in growing the revenue sadly.