Guildford - Farnborough

[bowrox]

I'm going to be travelling between Guildford and Farnborough return a couple of times a week, possibly using either Farnborough Main or Farnborough North depending on the times of the trains. Looking at brfares.com, there is an Any Permitted and a more expensive Via Woking ticket. Using the South West Trains journey planner it shows the Any Permitted ticket valid on both direct trains to Farnborough North and by changing at Woking to Farnborough Main.

I asked about this at the Guildford ticket office, and was told I had buy either a ticket to Farnborough North (Any Permitted) or Farnborough Main (Via Woking) and couldn't go to one station and come back from the other. When I said about the journey planner allowing me to travel via Woking on the Any Permitted I was told it was a 'grey area' as to whether it was valid, and that I shouldn't go to one station and back from the other.

Am I correct in believing that the Any Permitted ticket is valid to both Farnborough North and Farnborough Main? And with the Any Permitted ticket could I travel to one station but return from the other?

 

[infobleep]

Back in 2000 when I use to go to Farnborough Main some staff sold a via Woking ticket and others an any permitted. Those sling via Woking said the other ticket wasn't valid. Good to see things haven't changed regarding this confusion. To be fair I usually find Guildford staff to be helpful and good.

 

[horizonflame]

Yes, the Any Permitted ticket allows travel via Woking to Farnborough Main. My guess would be the via Woking ticket is SWT's attempt at some revenue abstraction from FGW?

 

[LexyBoy]

Guildford booking office doesn't have a great history of getting things right, from the posts here. Sounds like a certain amount of making it up as they go along was occurring here.

First things first - the ticket will be issued to Farnborough Stations, not a specific station.

Next, permitted routes. Permitted routes are determined between stations, not station groups. The permitted routes are:
Farnborough North: Direct only
Farnborough Main: Guildford-Woking-Farnborough Main, or Guildford-Farnborough North-(walk)-Main.

Where it becomes a grey area is whether you may choose which station of a group is your origin. My opinion is that you may - you will be setting off one of the stations, not a meta-location. In this case, you may use the permitted routes applicable to your origin station.

The counterargument is that, in determining Permitted Routes, the Routeing Guide has as step 3:

If the origin and destination have a common routeing point, the permitted route is direct via the shortest distance from the origin to the destination over which a regular scheduled passenger train service operates.

If you consider all routeing points associated with all stations in that group (both Farnborough Stations), then this limits you to using Farnboough North.

There is a lengthy discussion on the topic here.

 

[bowrox]

The fact that the journey planner on the South West Trains website will sell me the Any Permitted ticket via Woking or direct surely should suggest that it is definitely allowed, no grey area?

If I put in Guildford to Farnborough Main return, it even suggests as one of the options as going out via Woking and back direct by walking to Farnborough North.

Also, on the TVM, it has Farnborough Main and Farnborough North, and then no option to select the route (for example when you put in a Guildford - Fareham ticket it gives via Havant or via Eastleigh as two options). So I'm guessing that Farnborough Main gives a ticket to Farnborough Stations, routed via Woking, and Farnborough North gives a ticket to Farnborough Stations, routed Any Permitted?

 

[FenMan]

Where it becomes a grey area is whether you may choose which station of a group is your origin. My opinion is that you may - you will be setting off one of the stations, not a meta-location. In this case, you may use the permitted routes applicable to your origin station.

The Farnborough Group was abolished last year. That the Any Permitted ticket is to Farnborough Stations is explicit acknowledgement that the journey can be made to/from either station.

 

[LexyBoy]

The Farnborough Group was abolished last year. That the Any Permitted ticket is to Farnborough Stations is explicit acknowledgement that the journey can be made to/from either station.

I wouldn't say that makes it explicit necessarily.

Also, I realise I may have been unclear in my earlier post - by the "group" I was referring to the ticketing group, rather than the routeing group. If Farnborough routeing group still existed it would simplify matters.

The fact that the journey planner on the South West Trains website will sell me the Any Permitted ticket via Woking or direct surely should suggest that it is definitely allowed, no grey area?

Indeed - I had meant to finish with the fact that NRE is now the definitive source, and NRE allows travel via Woking on an Any Permitted ticket.

 

[infobleep]

I thought it was no longer compulsory to check NRE. is it still the definitive source?

 

[infobleep]

Actually what about Portsmouth stations. Surely passengers wouldn't have to always start at Portsmouth and Southsea when travelling to Guildford. People travelling on the Isle of Wight ferries wouldn't appreciate the walk, if they didn't have a through ticket from the Island.

 

[bowrox]

Indeed - I had meant to finish with the fact that NRE is now the definitive source, and NRE allows travel via Woking on an Any Permitted ticket.

That's exactly what I was hoping to hear.

Is it like likely/possible that this could change in the future, so via Woking wasn't a permitted route?

 

[LexyBoy]

Is it like likely/possible that this could change in the future, so via Woking wasn't a permitted route?

It's possible that it could change at any point without any prior notice, consultation or information to let you know that anything's changed.

I cannot see the route via Woking being removed however, so the worst case scenario would be an excess to the Via Woking fare. Even if the Any Permitted were not valid via Woking, a Penalty Fare would not be appropriate (so long as the Via Woking fare exists).

 

[swt_passenger]

Actually what about Portsmouth stations. Surely passengers wouldn't have to always start at Portsmouth and Southsea when travelling to Guildford. People travelling on the Isle of Wight ferries wouldn't appreciate the walk, if they didn't have a through ticket from the Island.

Completely irrelevant to the basic point under discussion, I'd have thought.

You cannot reach individual members of the Portsmouth stations fares group by means of different routes, because they are all in a row on the same line.

 

[ASharpe]

I'd like to add that if you are asked to pay an change of route excess for this then make sure it is only for one leg of your journey - so half the difference.

And then be sure to send in a complaint.

 

[button_boxer]

I'd like to add that if you are asked to pay an overdistance excess for this then make sure it is only for one leg of your journey - so half the difference.

I thought over-distance excesses were full difference rather than half (as opposed to change-of-route), otherwise you'd get people buying e.g. Manchester to Levenshulme return and excessing the outward half to London, which would give you a single for just over half the price of the return (a significant saving at off-peak times).

 

[ASharpe]

I thought over-distance excesses were full difference rather than half (as opposed to change-of-route), otherwise you'd get people buying e.g. Manchester to Levenshulme return and excessing the outward half to London, which would give you a single for just over half the price of the return (a significant saving at off-peak times).

Yes sorry, wasn't thinking when I typed that, I'll correct my original post. Overdistance is full difference (unless you find a friendly guard) and change of route is half the difference for one leg.

 

[infobleep]

Completely irrelevant to the basic point under discussion, I'd have thought.

You cannot reach individual members of the Portsmouth stations fares group by means of different routes, because they are all in a row on the same line.

I take your point. I'd not thought of it like that. I thought it was just the closest station regardless of routes available.