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Guided Busways

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Condor7

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I am not sure if this has been discussed in the past, but could not find anything in 'search'.

It is just that I always find dedicated busways to be so unsightly.

Apart from being in unattractive concrete, every time I see one, they all seem to have a 'trough' in the centre which collects standing water and lots of rubbish, and always look really unsightly.

Does anyone know why that trough is there, and cannot something more pleasing to the eye be designed.?
 
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radamfi

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I presume you are talking about kerb guided busways that can only be used by buses which have guide wheels fitted.

The point of the trough is to stop other vehicles using them. But you can put grass in the trough as well to make it prettier, they don't have to be fully concrete.

For example:
http://citytransport.info/Video/Fulerumera.jpg

Not all busways are guided. The legendary Haarlem - Schiphol Airport busway is just a normal road, but still impressive as it has many elaborate bridges and tunnels.
 
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Phil6219

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The guided busway in Crawley has it's nice parts, it does have its uses but sadly the funding was cut and the network is not as big as originally planned. I used to use part of it quite often but my service (100) never got the guided part.

More info here, Wikipedia Article

The Leigh Guided busway on the other hand nobody actually wants and will serve no purpose so for the sake of my blood pressure will not go into it.

Phil 8-)
 

radamfi

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I wouldn't even class the 100 as a special route as it doesn't enjoy any significant bus priority. It was merely a branding exercise. It does start very early in the morning though, seven days a week.

The Leigh busway presumably will be similar to other busways in offering more reliable journey times. Whether a different scheme would be more worthwhile is another question.
 

Condor7

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Perhaps I should clarify.

I am not familiar with all the busways in the UK or anywhere else for that matter.

I can only comment on those I have seen, either in real life or in photos in magazines like Buses for instance.

I have found of those I have seen to be unattractive.

I accept that grass can be grown inbetween, but most I am aware of do not have that and are full of rubbish and standing water, and those that do have grass, like the one in the photo in the above post from Radamfi, to be honest while looking better still look a little untidy and I would imagine if not cared for would soon get out of hand.

I am sure there are some nice ones it is just I have not seen any yet.
 

radamfi

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I am sure there are some nice ones it is just I have not seen any yet.

I'm not sure you will ever be pleased with the look of guided busways given what you have written. Guided busways as a minimum need to have beams either side and a bit of concrete for the tyres to drive on.

So do you think that a normal road is prettier than a busway? I wouldn't have thought that the look of a busway is the top priority, nor whether rail on ballast looks attractive.
 

Condor7

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I'm not sure you will ever be pleased with the look of guided busways given what you have written. Guided busways as a minimum need to have beams either side and a bit of concrete for the tyres to drive on.

So do you think that a normal road is prettier than a busway? I wouldn't have thought that the look of a busway is the top priority, nor whether rail on ballast looks attractive.

Yes I do think roads look better than busways.
I am not wanting this to be a discussion on how effective or otherwise these are, I just think they could be designed not to attract weeds, rubbish and standing water, surely someone can come up with a more pleasing look.

Take the latest edition of 'Buses' (Novermber issue) there are three photos in total of busways, page 7 and 31 both look tatty, the one on page 32 looks better but already the grass is getting out of hand, so depends on how often it gets tended.

As I am getting no support I guess I am the only one that thinks this, but wanted to express my view.
 

starrymarkb

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As I said the unguided ones look OK, the only Guided one I've seen is the one in Essen and the crash barriers to keep stray vehicles from Autobahn lanes out of the bus way meant I couldn't see the actual track (the busway is in the central reservation of the A40)
 

radamfi

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Condor7:1261813 said:
Yes I do think roads look better than busways.
I am not wanting this to be a discussion on how effective or otherwise these are, I just think they could be designed not to attract weeds, rubbish and standing water, surely someone can come up with a more pleasing look.

I don't think what you want is possible, given that you didn't even like the German example. Anyway, once the current batch of guided busways are complete, I doubt we will see any further examples. Future busways will probably be just normal roads like Gosport or the many Dutch busways.
 

D365

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Bustways, what more can I say? The delays, faults and bloated costs with the Cambridge one, mainly as a result of the incompetent contractor, don't help to convince me of any advantage over rail-metro systems. Not that it has stopped any other council from continuing... A PPM tram system would have cost a similar amount and be much better for us, I reckon.
 

tbtc

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Bustways, what more can I say? The delays, faults and bloated costs with the Cambridge one, mainly as a result of the incompetent contractor, don't help to convince me of any advantage over rail-metro systems

Although none of those problems that you refer to seem to be specific to it being a busway, they were to do with a badly managed project which can happen with trams (Edinburgh), trains (WCML upgrade) or any other infrastructure.

Surely a more important stat about the Cambridgeshire system is that it's beating passenger forecasts?
 

radamfi

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Bustways, what more can I say? The delays, faults and bloated costs with the Cambridge one, mainly as a result of the incompetent contractor, don't help to convince me of any advantage over rail-metro systems. Not that it has stopped any other council from continuing... A PPM tram system would have cost a similar amount and be much better for us, I reckon.

I think it is meaningless to talk about delays and cost overruns as a reason to dismiss busways given that tram system have also encountered similar problems.

Clearly, there would be no busways if a rail alternative could be installed at similar cost as rail offers superior comfort. Rail should be chosen if the demand is particularly high. The relatively low population in the Cambridge to Huntingdon corridor wouldn't normally even merit consideration of any special transport scheme.

The Dutch have installed several busways (not guided) and are clearly impressive in the way they avoid traffic and offer reliable journey times. Some of these busways have grown patronage so much that light rail conversion is now being considered.
 

D365

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Although none of those problems that you refer to seem to be specific to it being a busway, they were to do with a badly managed project which can happen with trams (Edinburgh), trains (WCML upgrade) or any other infrastructure.

Surely a more important stat about the Cambridgeshire system is that it's beating passenger forecasts?

I think it is meaningless to talk about delays and cost overruns as a reason to dismiss busways given that tram system have also encountered similar problems.

Clearly, there would be no busways if a rail alternative could be installed at similar cost as rail offers superior comfort. Rail should be chosen if the demand is particularly high. The relatively low population in the Cambridge to Huntingdon corridor wouldn't normally even merit consideration of any special transport scheme.

The Dutch have installed several busways (not guided) and are clearly impressive in the way they avoid traffic and offer reliable journey times. Some of these busways have grown patronage so much that light rail conversion is now being considered.

You make a fair point in that I have blamed the busway idea itself for these problems. I assume that the relative development age and usage may be a problem (a lot less used than rail), but the problems with other busways are not convincing me that it is a particularly good idea, Luton included.

The Cambridgeshire Busway will easily hit £200m once all the legal problems have been sorted out. For that price, a light rail system could easily have been built on the old track bed, albeit with some (by that I mean quite a bit of) difficulty through towns. That is where the buses do come in handy; they are not stuck to the ground.

Nevertheless, passenger forecasts are being broken, perhaps due to the fact that services run up to Somersham, through Addenbrookes and now to Hinchingbrooke and Peterborough, as well as the core St. Ives-Cambridge. But has this, or will it have any impact on Godmanchester, where a major 750+ home development is due, with "nil-detriment to the A14"? Fairfield (developer of the project) are supposed to subsidise a service connecting to St. Ives P+R, but for how long?

The relatively low population in the Cambridge to Huntingdon corridor wouldn't normally even merit consideration of any special transport scheme.

Yes, but with the A14 literally bursting with the never-ending upgrade/tolling saga and many major developments in the wings, a railway would be a major asset. Sure, the busway is great, but a railway (if bypassing instead of penetrating) would have had major development potential, with the possibility for faster through services from Peterborough to Alconbury/Huntingdon, St. Ives, Cambridge, Stansted Airport and the towns in between. That would do so much..

Sorry, my points really aren't that great, but I haven't had the time to develop them well. In short, I'm not convinced about busways, despite their numerous advantages.
 

tbtc

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The Cambridgeshire Busway will easily hit £200m once all the legal problems have been sorted out. For that price, a light rail system could easily have been built on the old track bed, albeit with some (by that I mean quite a bit of) difficulty through towns

But it's only £200m because of the badly managed project - by the same token the big overspend on some rail projects could have paid for a lot of schools/ hospitals etc.

For example http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/virgin/ claims that the WCML upgrade was meant to be £2.5bn. In the end the partly completed upgrade (which didn't cover the full scope of the initial plans) cost £9bn.

Does anyone use that as a reason why no new railways can be build?
 

D365

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But it's only £200m because of the badly managed project - by the same token the big overspend on some rail projects could have paid for a lot of schools/ hospitals etc.

For example http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/virgin/ claims that the WCML upgrade was meant to be £2.5bn. In the end the partly completed upgrade (which didn't cover the full scope of the initial plans) cost £9bn.

Does anyone use that as a reason why no new railways can be build?

Even so, £116m (originally projected costs) could have bought a pretty decent railway, right? My case against the busway and for a railway isn't that well developed, honestly, I'm just glad it's working..
 

HSTEd

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Could do with a guided busway that bypasses the "Curry Mile" in South Manchester..... even if was within easy walking distance of the road with stops every 100m it would still be faster to go around than through......

Would have to maintain a token bus service along it I suppose but it might let the "fast" busses actually be faster...
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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There was a thread on the forum in 2011 about the early discussions regarding the Leigh Guided Busway project, with many forum members totally against the project and suggesting the reopening of a rail link.

However, the project is now in its early groundwork clearance stages on TfGM give a date for late 2014 for full operation.
 
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