Guided buses: not enough regard for safety?

[Megafuss]

The first stage of the busway fence work, between Long Road and the Addenbrookes spur, has been completed. Work has now started on the Addenbrookes spur to Trumpington section.

There is a BBC report here on how the reduced speed limit on the busway, and the work to install the fence, have had an impact on usage.

Fewer Cambridgeshire busway passengers after speed limit reduced

The limit on the network, where three people have died, is reduced while fencing is installed.

www.bbc.co.uk

Are Stagecoach and Whippet still being charged track access charges while the works are going on?

 

[Magdalia]

The fence is only being installed on the station-addenbrookes-trumpington section, right?

No the fence is the entire length of the busway.

So why is there a speed limit on the rest of the busiest, that doesn't have the main safety concern (somewhat narrow footpath right next to busway)?

On parts of the busway the speed limit is temporary until the fences have been installed.

There are more details here:

Warning of delays as Cambridgeshire Busway speed limit is cut

Journeys could take up to 45 minutes longer when lower speeds are introduced, a bus operator says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bus passengers are being warned to prepare for long delays and "significant disruption" as reduced speed limits are put in place on a busway as part of a raft of new safety measures.

The speed limit on Cambridgeshire's guided busway network - where three people have died - has been reduced to a blanket 30mph (48km/h) from Monday.

In a statement, the county council said: "From Monday (6 October), the speed limit will be lowered to 30mph along the busway and 20mph at crossing points.

"This is temporary until permanent fencing and barriers have been installed across the whole guided busway, which is expected to be completed by the end of 2026. The speed limit will be revised as each section of fencing is completed."

 

[johncrossley]

More than likely extra car journeys have been made as a result of these works, possibly meaning more accidents and pollution as a result. They badly need to get rid of on bus ticket sales to improve journey times.

 

[Trainbike46]

More than likely extra car journeys have been made as a result of these works, possibly meaning more accidents and pollution as a result. They badly need to get rid of on bus ticket sales to improve journey times.

The switch from off-board to on-board sales has always seemed rather insane to me

No the fence is the entire length of the busway.


On parts of the busway the speed limit is temporary until the fences have been installed.

There are more details here:

Warning of delays as Cambridgeshire Busway speed limit is cut

Journeys could take up to 45 minutes longer when lower speeds are introduced, a bus operator says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thank you!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The switch from off-board to on-board sales has always seemed rather insane to me

It'll be down to cost to the Council, but won't be an issue when Stagecoach eventually change their ticket machines and enable tap on tap off. London got rid of its roadside machines over ten years ago now.

 

[stadler]

The switch from off-board to on-board sales has always seemed rather insane to me


Thank you!

It'll be down to cost to the Council, but won't be an issue when Stagecoach eventually change their ticket machines and enable tap on tap off. London got rid of its roadside machines over ten years ago now.

The bus stop ticket machine sales on the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway were a disaster. It is good they got rid of them. The machines constantly got vandalised by local youths. The machines were broken in to multiple times to steal cash. People would always get confused and buy the wrong tickets and then hold up the bus as the driver explained they were not valid. Back then the two operators (Stagecoach and Whippet) had their own tickets and refused to accept each others which meant that you had to select the operator on the ticket machine. People would always buy the wrong ones (especially as it was difficult to know which operator was arriving first) and get confused. The bus drivers would often sell tickets onboard anyway even if they were not supposed to due to passengers being confused or machines being broken.

 

[johncrossley]

We don't need roadside ticket machines in 2025. TfL don't sell tickets on board yet got rid of roadside ticket machines more than a decade ago!

 

[Trainbike46]

We don't need roadside ticket machines in 2025. TfL don't sell tickets on board yet got rid of roadside ticket machines more than a decade ago!

I agree we don't need them when the operators start accepting contactless (has that happened yet?) - the vast majority of passengers will likely either be on some kind of season ticket, or use contactless, both of which are fast.

However, there was no sign of the bus accepting contactless when the already existing ticket machines were disabled back in 2018 or 2019, and people buying tickets with cash from the driver is a very good way to extend dwell times, and therefore make the bus less attractive.

My point was that at the time the off-board ticket system was removed, without an equivalent introduction of a fast method of paying when boarding (like oyster or contactless in London), seemed like a pretty insane decision, especially as the infrastructure was already in place.

The bus stop ticket machine sales on the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway were a disaster. It is good they got rid of them. The machines constantly got vandalised by local youths. The machines were broken in to multiple times to steal cash. People would always get confused and buy the wrong tickets and then hold up the bus as the driver explained they were not valid. Back then the two operators (Stagecoach and Whippet) had their own tickets and refused to accept each others which meant that you had to select the operator on the ticket machine. People would always buy the wrong ones (especially as it was difficult to know which operator was arriving first) and get confused. The bus drivers would often sell tickets onboard anyway even if they were not supposed to due to passengers being confused or machines being broken.

There was a period (maybe in 2015 or 2016?) when both whippet and stagecoach ran services along most of the busway, and at least some interoperable tickets were available.

 

[stadler]

We don't need roadside ticket machines in 2025. TfL don't sell tickets on board yet got rid of roadside ticket machines more than a decade ago!

I agree we don't need them when the operators start accepting contactless (has that happened yet?) - the vast majority of passengers will likely either be on some kind of season ticket, or use contactless, both of which are fast.

However, there was no sign of the bus accepting contactless when the already existing ticket machines were disabled back in 2018 or 2019, and people buying tickets with cash from the driver is a very good way to extend dwell times, and therefore make the bus less attractive.

My point was that at the time the off-board ticket system was removed, without an equivalent introduction of a fast method of paying when boarding (like oyster or contactless in London), seemed like a pretty insane decision, especially as the infrastructure was already in place.


There was a period (maybe in 2015 or 2016?) when both whippet and stagecoach ran services along most of the busway, and at least some interoperable tickets were available.

Well outside of the Greater London area you need either onboard cash sales or cash accepting roadside ticket machines. London is a bit different due to the Oyster Card and the widespread availability of shops and locations to purchase and top up. Nowhere else outside of Greater London is comparable. If you only have contactless tap on tap off then you make travel impossible for cash users.

Interestingly i remember that TFL got rid of roadside ticket machines over a year before they got rid of onboard sales. In the final year or so of onboard cash sales they began selling tickets onboard buses in the Central London area.

Although oddly they have since brought back roadside ticket machines to two random locations (Victoria Bus Station outside the rail station entrance and Brent Cross Bus Station) but all they sell is travelcards. A bit pointless when you have ticket machines in the rail and tube stations.

 

[renegademaster]

Well outside of the Greater London area you need either onboard cash sales or cash accepting roadside ticket machines. London is a bit different due to the Oyster Card and the widespread availability of shops and locations to purchase and top up. Nowhere else outside of Greater London is comparable. If you only have contactless tap on tap off then you make travel impossible for cash users.

Interestingly i remember that TFL got rid of roadside ticket machines over a year before they got rid of onboard sales. In the final year or so of onboard cash sales they began selling tickets onboard buses in the Central London area.

Although oddly they have since brought back roadside ticket machines to two random locations (Victoria Bus Station outside the rail station entrance and Brent Cross Bus Station) but all they sell is travelcards. A bit pointless when you have ticket machines in the rail and tube stations.

West Croydon bus station has a machine for buying travelcards as well. Probably a few other bus stations as well

 

[stadler]

West Croydon bus station has a machine for buying travelcards as well. Probably a few other bus stations as well

Ah it is probably more widespread then. I guess maybe all major bus stations have them. Just seems a bit odd as they are all near rail stations or tube stations and all you can buy is a travelcard. I think they might allow you to purchase and top up an Oyster Card too.

 

[Trainbike46]

Well outside of the Greater London area you need either onboard cash sales or cash accepting roadside ticket machines. London is a bit different due to the Oyster Card and the widespread availability of shops and locations to purchase and top up. Nowhere else outside of Greater London is comparable. If you only have contactless tap on tap off then you make travel impossible for cash users.

If you offer contactless, the vast majority of people will use it. Selling cash tickets on board to the few people who want or need it is then a limited issue. The problem is many people buying on board in a slow manner, not the odd person who needs to use cash. So hence my point, taking away roadside ticket machines without simultaneously introducing a fast on-board sales method was rather weird.

For example, here in Belfast all non-glider buses accept cash on board. The vast majority of people use either contactless or one of Translink's infinite number of smartcards. The few people who do need to or want to pay cash barely delay the service, and dwell times have decreased since contactless became available.

 

[stadler]

If you offer contactless, the vast majority of people will use it. Selling cash tickets on board to the few people who want or need it is then a limited issue. The problem is many people buying on board in a slow manner, not the odd person who needs to use cash. So hence my point, taking away roadside ticket machines without simultaneously introducing a fast on-board sales method was rather weird.

For example, here in Belfast all non-glider buses accept cash on board. The vast majority of people use either contactless or one of Translink's infinite number of smartcards. The few people who do need to or want to pay cash barely delay the service, and dwell times have decreased since contactless became available.

Yes that is a good way to do it. Offer and advertise the use of contactless payments but still keep onboard cash payments for those who want to pay in cash. That reduces dwell times but still makes it accessible for cash users.

 

[johncrossley]

Yes that is a good way to do it. Offer and advertise the use of contactless payments but still keep onboard cash payments for those who want to pay in cash. That reduces dwell times but still makes it accessible for cash users.

I don't see how that is any different to what already happens on the vast majority of buses in the UK. Cash is not the issue. Buying paper tickets from the driver is the issue, whether they use card or cash.

 

[Trainbike46]

I don't see how that is any different to what already happens on the vast majority of buses in the UK. Cash is not the issue. Buying paper tickets from the driver is the issue, whether they use card or cash.

Contactless is usually a tap-on (and sometimes tap-off) situation, not a "buy a paper ticket" situation.

 

[johncrossley]

Contactless is usually a tap-on (and sometimes tap-off) situation, not a "buy a paper ticket" situation.

But they still allow tickets to be sold from the driver using contactless even when contactless tap-on is in operation.

Lots of places abroad don't sell tickets on board even where they don't have ticket machines, contactless or smartcards.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree we don't need them when the operators start accepting contactless (has that happened yet?) - the vast majority of passengers will likely either be on some kind of season ticket, or use contactless, both of which are fast.

However, there was no sign of the bus accepting contactless when the already existing ticket machines were disabled back in 2018 or 2019, and people buying tickets with cash from the driver is a very good way to extend dwell times, and therefore make the bus less attractive.

Contactless is accepted (as per pretty much all UK buses now), but only as a traditional, slow transaction.

 

[Megafuss]

Contactless is accepted (as per pretty much all UK buses now), but only as a traditional, slow transaction.

If you take a step back, virtually every major operator has tap on (tap off). It's just really Stagecoach dragging it's heels - which is pertinent given who operates most Busway services.

Where that technology exists, I don't see why those operators still continue to sell single and operator only tickets the "traditional" way.

 

[Haywain]

.

Where that technology exists, I don't see why those operators still continue to sell single and operator only tickets the "traditional" way.

Because paying for buses that way is not actually that common in much of the UK.

 

[Trainbike46]

Because paying for buses that way is not actually that common in much of the UK.

I've experienced tap-on payment in Belfast (Translink metro), Edinburgh (Lothian), and Aberdeen (First). I think it's also used in Derry (Londonderry if you're so inclined), and I'd wager many other cities.

It makes sense: it's easy for the customer, quick, and reduces dwells for everyone

EDIT: the point being that it is in fact faulty common, especially for city buses, across the UK.

 

[higthomas]

Cash is not the issue. Buying paper tickets from the driver is the issue, whether they use card or cash.

This.

As a first step, every operator needs to enable tap on (tap off) ticketing, and then make them cheaper than buying from the driver.

I genuinely don't understand why most of the bus industry doesn't seem to care that perhaps 10% of their coats could be eliminated with one simple move.

 

[Haywain]

I've experienced tap-on payment in Belfast (Translink metro), Edinburgh (Lothian), and Aberdeen (First). I think it's also used in Derry (Londonderry if you're so inclined), and I'd wager many other cities.

It makes sense: it's easy for the customer, quick, and reduces dwells for everyone

EDIT: the point being that it is in fact faulty common, especially for city buses, across the UK.

A handful of cities is not the whole of the UK. If there was one consistent system for tap on, tap off, people might be confident but there isn’t.

 

[Bletchleyite]

New thread for discussing tap on/tap off payment:

Tap on tap off payment on UK provincial buses

This. As a first step, every operator needs to enable tap on (tap off) ticketing, and then make them cheaper than buying from the driver. I genuinely don't understand why most of the bus industry doesn't seem to care that perhaps 10% of their coats could be eliminated with one simple move...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Kite159]

I guess with the works involved in installing the fences along the route of the busway from Cambridge to St Ives, the cycle/walking bridleway alongside the route is closed in places?

(Just looking at ideas for future walks, not much point heading to St Ives if the path is closed forcing a poorly signposted detour)

 

[Man of Kent]

I guess with the works involved in installing the fences along the route of the busway from Cambridge to St Ives, the cycle/walking bridleway alongside the route is closed in places?

(Just looking at ideas for future walks, not much point heading to St Ives if the path is closed forcing a poorly signposted detour)

Information on the works and what is closed is available on this page, which is updated regularly:

Guided Busway improvements

www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk

 

[Magdalia]

Latest news on the busway safety fences is here:

Cambridge Busway bridge to be closed to walkers and cyclists

The closure is part of council work to install safety fences along the length of the Busway.

www.bbc.co.uk

Walkers and cyclists will be unable to use a bridge on a guided busway for two months while safety fencing is being installed.
The bridge, between the Cambridge Biomedical Campus and Trumpington, will also be closed in one direction for buses, with diversion routes put in place.
The closure is part of Cambridgeshire County Council's work to install safety fencing between the busway track and the shared pathway running alongside it.
It agreed to install the permanent fencing and barriers after it was fined £6m following the deaths of three people on the Busway.
The safety works are due to take place between March and May, as reported by the Local Democracy Reporting Service.

 

[Farigiraf]

Latest news on the busway safety fences is here:

..

Cambridge Busway bridge to be closed to walkers and cyclists

The closure is part of council work to install safety fences along the length of the Busway.

www.bbc.co.uk

While getting the busway speed limits back up again should be a priority, there's got to be a better way than this. Surely there's a way of increasing safety without installing this eyesore alongside the whole route (which makes the cycle path go from charming to simply functional)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

While getting the busway speed limits back up again should be a priority, there's got to be a better way than this. Surely there's a way of increasing safety without installing this eyesore alongside the whole route (which makes the cycle path go from charming to simply functional)?

I don't think the main fencing is that ugly, is it? It's just similar to galvanised pedestrian fences at road junctions, given that its purpose is primarily to prevent people accidentally ending up on the track by falling off their bike etc rather than fencing on railways which is more intended to prevent people who actively want to get on the track and are willing to climb a fence doing so?

Higher fencing is being used at "informal crossing points" though I think, as in those settings it's more like railway fencing.

My main concern about it is that because it's quite close to the bus it could make fire evacuation through the main door difficult, which may be needed as the offside exit is typically further back and so access could be inhibited by an engine fire.

 

[Magdalia]

(which makes the cycle path go from charming to simply functional)

I can think of lots of charming cycle routes in the Cambridge area, but the busway has never been one of them. Functionality and safety are far more important than charm.

My main concern about it is that because it's quite close to the bus it could make fire evacuation through the main door difficult, which may be needed as the offside exit is typically further back and so access could be inhibited by an engine fire.

The fence has gates for evacuation, lots of them. They are painted yellow for ease of identification. I expect that drivers are trained to do emergency stops at the gates.

 

[Farigiraf]

I don't think the main fencing is that ugly, is it? It's just similar to galvanised pedestrian fences at road junctions, given that its purpose is primarily to prevent people accidentally ending up on the track by falling off their bike etc rather than fencing on railways which is more intended to prevent people who actively want to get on the track and are willing to climb a fence doing so?

The fence itself is not that ugly but it does remove much of the appeal of the adjacent cycle path - it's still useful as a quick traffic-free route into the city centre but it's going from charming to utilitarian and slightly claustrophobic. I don't want to be that person which opposes projects like these over the impact on the landscape, I'll take a safe, speedy busway and an okay cycle path over a trundling busway and a pleasant cycle path, this just seems a bit overblown - it's not like you can trip and fall onto the busway on the unfenced sections.

I can think of lots of charming cycle routes in the Cambridge area, but the busway has never been one of them.

Few of them are particularly useful for getting from A to B though. Many of them seem primarily for recreational cycling. I do quite like the busway cycle path, although that may just be because I'm a transport enthusiast so the buses are a pro rather than a con.