Guard's Duties when Dispatching Train

[rebmcr]

Even simple questions concerning certain roles will seemingly almost automatically result in such defensiveness that clouds proper discussion.

You speak the truth!

 

[74A]

Do they have platform staff at this station ?

 

[CheesyChips]

Do they have platform staff at this station ?

No not this one

 

[Matt Taylor]

I seem to remember that someone found out at Newcastle that this isn't always the case.

As did someone at Hayes & Harlington last July.

And there is a big difference between someone getting a coat or scarf stuck in a closing door and what happened at St James.

 

[wellwhatitis]

As a Guard who works through Birmingham Moor St, can I just give this some perspective from a Guard's point of view

The Snow Hill bound platform, where the OP was boarding, is one of the worst I have worked for passenger ignorance. The trains that come in are of varying lengths, yet about 75% of passengers will all crowd around the front of the platform whatever the size of the train. They know that this is where the majority of passengers are also alighting from the train yet still do it, so you end up with a double whammy of delays while the majority of boarding passengers all wait at the same door as the majority of alighting ones are. As the OP correctly says, it is often impossible to then see when the last boarders are actually on as they stream out of sight and the narrow platform is crowded.

You very often have 5 or 7 clear doors for about 30 seconds while they all form a line at 1. And they won't change for anything.

It is nothing to do with their destination and all to do with laziness due to it being so close to the entry / exit barriers. Incidentally, there aren't enough of those either, creating back up of alighting passengers onto the platform.

The London bound platform is just as bad although I have more sympathy with the passengers as it is much narrower so they often have no choice other than grouping at the front although they still have scant regard in a lot of cases.

In my opinion the station is becoming quite unsafe and at least will have to start having dispatch staff. The through platforms simply weren't designed for the numbers now using them and in all honesty it is very difficult to be sure that it is safe to dispatch the train atall at the busiest times, particularly on the London bound platform where the passengers for the next train will still be stacked up alongside the train while you are departing.

Ironically the bay platforms are ridiculously spacious exactly where none is required. The whole station needs a rethink.

The same people that create these dwell delays then have the temerity to clog the LM twitter feed up with sarcastic nonsense about 5, 4 and even 3 minute delays on a 10 minute frequency service!

 

[johnnychips]

Wellwhatitis - have you or your colleagues raised these concerns either directly to management or through your trade union?

 

[causton]

Have Chiltern started putting train lengths on the boards at Moor Street? When I used it everyone had to crowd the same part of the platform... as the other option would be to be nowhere near the train if it was only a single unit!

 

[theironroad]

As the op has stated up thread that he has emailed chiltern (I assume to complain about the way the train was operated) I'd suggest that in light of current events in Liverpool, people should be very wary about what they post online. Maybe this thread should be closed, as no good is going to come out of this argument.

 

[wellwhatitis]

As the op has stated up thread that he has emailed chiltern (I assume to complain about the way the train was operated) I'd suggest that in light of current events in Liverpool, people should be very wary about what they post online. Maybe this thread should be closed, as no good is going to come out of this argument.

Why does it need to be locked? It's a sensible discussion from what I can see, not an argument. Why is everybody so obsessed with locking threads? Not much point in a forum if every thread gets locked the minute there's any disagreement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wellwhatitis - have you or your colleagues raised these concerns either directly to management or through your trade union?

It's very difficult for me to answer that without getting myself into hot water but your point is noted.

 

[CheesyChips]

As the op has stated up thread that he has emailed chiltern (I assume to complain about the way the train was operated)

It was a complaint email that I wrote, but more about the inconvenience as I was late collecting my daughter from nursery which meant I incurred a cost. The complaint was from the perspective of an annoyed passenger, not somebody judging procedure.

Personally speaking, had the person in front of me got stuck in the door after hearing the alarms I would have blamed them, not Chiltern.

 

[Muzer]

Since nobody has said it, in response to one of OP's original questions — yes, it is my belief you should be able to claim passenger charter delay compensation, since Chiltern caused a delay to your journey in this case. Just as people assert that being (for example) held up at the ticket barriers for a long period (eg if they suspect your ticket is invalid, when it isn't) entitles you to claim By the same token, I suspect you would also be fine for missing booked advance connections.

 

[harz99]

As a Guard who works through Birmingham Moor St, can I just give this some perspective from a Guard's point of view

The Snow Hill bound platform, where the OP was boarding, is one of the worst I have worked for passenger ignorance. The trains that come in are of varying lengths, yet about 75% of passengers will all crowd around the front of the platform whatever the size of the train. They know that this is where the majority of passengers are also alighting from the train yet still do it, so you end up with a double whammy of delays while the majority of boarding passengers all wait at the same door as the majority of alighting ones are. As the OP correctly says, it is often impossible to then see when the last boarders are actually on as they stream out of sight and the narrow platform is crowded.

You very often have 5 or 7 clear doors for about 30 seconds while they all form a line at 1. And they won't change for anything.

It is nothing to do with their destination and all to do with laziness due to it being so close to the entry / exit barriers. Incidentally, there aren't enough of those either, creating back up of alighting passengers onto the platform.

The London bound platform is just as bad although I have more sympathy with the passengers as it is much narrower so they often have no choice other than grouping at the front although they still have scant regard in a lot of cases.

In my opinion the station is becoming quite unsafe and at least will have to start having dispatch staff. The through platforms simply weren't designed for the numbers now using them and in all honesty it is very difficult to be sure that it is safe to dispatch the train atall at the busiest times, particularly on the London bound platform where the passengers for the next train will still be stacked up alongside the train while you are departing.

Ironically the bay platforms are ridiculously spacious exactly where none is required. The whole station needs a rethink.

The same people that create these dwell delays then have the temerity to clog the LM twitter feed up with sarcastic nonsense about 5, 4 and even 3 minute delays on a 10 minute frequency service!

As a retired railwayman and a former commuter i'll give you another reason, it is simply because that area/carriage is the most likely place to get a seat for their own journey, knowing that lots of people have just vacated seats.

 

[CheesyChips]

Just in case anyone is interested, Chiltern have apologised to me and have sent a cheque for £20.

I did initially have to convince the customer service people that I wasn't referring to a London Midland service, but still.

 

[Loop & Link]

Was it worth it then? Dropping someone in it all for £20. You must be made up! Don't spend it all at once.

 

[Deepgreen]

Was it worth it then? Dropping someone in it all for £20. You must be made up! Don't spend it all at once.

This misses the point, which is that the OP was left behind (along with others), not necessarily owing to a fault by the guard. It is far from certain that anyone has been "dropped in it"; merely that the TOC has decided to provide a goodwill gesture. The issue probably hasn't even got beyond the 'customer service' layer at the TOC.

On the other hand, if the guard was at fault (and no-one seems to know, least of all me), should this just have been ignored to be allowed potentially to happen again?

 

[CheesyChips]

Was it worth it then? Dropping someone in it all for £20. You must be made up! Don't spend it all at once.

"Dropping someone in it" - I'm sorry if you think this is some kind of prison drama, but in fact this is a customer complaining about the service received.

You see, I pay for my travel and expect a certain service to be delivered which in this case wasn't. Maybe the guard was right, maybe he/she was wrong, but my ticket is a relationship between myself and the TOCs on the routes I'm entitled to use, not a friendly handshake between me and the guards of the trains in that I'll just keep quiet when they do something that inconveniences me.

The railways don't exist to be your nationwide trainset in which customers are a bye-product of trains running from Thurso to St Ives, so stop crying, grow up and contribute to the forum like an adult.

I actually incurred a fee of £20 for not picking my daughter up on time from nursery which I told Chiltern Railways about and they politely reimbursed me for, so in that respect, I will be spending it all at once.

Thanks again for your childish post that added zero value and made you look like a fool.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Was it worth it then? Dropping someone in it all for £20. You must be made up! Don't spend it all at once.

Unsafe and potentially unsafe practices need to be reported, it's the only way the railway can improve its own safety, reducing deaths and injuries to staff, passengers and passers by.

That report can be through your chain of management/responsibility, or confidentially through CIRAS, if you happen to work on the railway.

Passengers can only complain via their TOC. Those passengers, especially those who use the railway regularly, see things in a slightly different light, and it's really good to get their feedback on potentially unsafe issues, things going a little differently in real life to the training and theory, specific stations having unusual passenger behaviour and so on.

If the guard has done something wrong, then it needs to be remedied before a serious injury or fatality occurs, if it's a TOC issue, then again, it needs to be remedied before someone gets hurt, similarly, if it's not an issue and no further action is necessary, then it hurts nobody to report it.

I might be a bit unpopular, but there's no place on the railway for people who use the words "dropping someone in it", whether it's defending a colleague or whether it's complaining about a potentially valid complaint.

 

[najaB]

I might be a bit unpopular, but there's no place on the railway for people who use the words "dropping someone in it", whether it's defending a colleague or whether it's complaining about a potentially valid complaint.

I'm not in the industry, but I agree with you. The only way to be 'dropped in it' is to do something wrong (knowingly or not) in the first place.