Guardian reporting potential NPR "formal revival"

[eldomtom2]

Precisely what is meant by "Northern Powerhouse Rail" is not specified.

Labour to revive Northern Powerhouse Rail project

Starmer and Reeves expected to announce move before Labour conference, with aim of boosting backbench morale

www.theguardian.com

Labour to revive Northern Powerhouse Rail project​

Exclusive: Starmer and Reeves expected to announce move before Labour conference, with aim of boosting backbench morale
Keir Starmer is to formally revive Northern Powerhouse rail this autumn with an announcement expected before the Labour conference, as a major demonstration of Labour’s commitment to northern infrastructure.

Sources said the speech would be delivered by Starmer and Rachel Reeves as they attempt to show their commitment to Labour’s former heartlands across the north of England, where Nigel Farage’s Reform UK is eyeing significant gains at the next general election.

Government advisers are planning to time the announcement before Labour conference on 28 September, with the aim of boosting the morale of backbenchers after a series of damaging U-turns.

The transport secretary, Heidi Alexander, is expected to make the rail project a key theme of her conference speech. A government source said the announcement was likely to take place before then but that the timing was not yet confirmed.

Political and industry figures in the north of England have urged Starmer for over a year to revive the Manchester leg of HS2 and to build Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR), an east-west connection linking Liverpool to Hull.

NPR is seen by some as critical to rebalancing the UK’s economy as it would connect potentially five of Britain’s major cities – including Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield – on a route that for decades has been choked by trundling old trains and the overloaded M62. A DfT source said the exact route had not yet been formally agreed.

The NPR plan requires part of the HS2 construction between Crewe and Manchester to go ahead, raising hopes that ministers would also commit to some form of HS2 running to Birmingham and London.

 

[Nottingham59]

The Guardian is reporting that "Keir Starmer is to formally revive Northern Powerhouse Rail this autumn with an announcement expected before the Labour conference, as a major demonstration of Labour’s commitment to northern infrastructure."

Labour to revive Northern Powerhouse Rail project

Starmer and Reeves expected to announce move before Labour conference, with aim of boosting backbench morale

www.theguardian.com

Previous discussion here is not open for futher replies:

DfT press release on Northern Powerhouse Rail

This press release has appeared on the DfT website: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-next-steps-onnorthern-powerhouse-rail-between-liverpool-and-manchester progress on development of the rail link between Liverpool and Manchester  following engagement with local...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[YorkshireBear]

Aye.... For them to cancel it later.

 

[bringbackcrouc]

Will it be npr light going through huddesfield or npr proper with an underground station at Manchester and a route via Bradford? Or have they even decided

 

[Halifaxlad]

Will it be npr light going through huddesfield or npr proper with an underground station at Manchester and a route via Bradford? Or have they even decided

It will of course be billions spent on Manchester i.e. the bit that was going to be spent under HS2 and a bit towards Liverpool, a through station for Bradford and by the looks of things a new station in Leeds considering that the land for the station is safeguarded and probably just electrification to Hull so it looks like they're getting something. I seriously doubt there will be anything in between Huddersfield and Manchester, they may be a new line between Hudddersfield and Bradford thou although that will probably be about it!

 

[absolutelymilk]

It will of course be billions spent on Manchester i.e. the bit that was going to be spent under HS2 and a bit towards Liverpool, a through station for Bradford and by the looks of things a new station in Leeds considering that the land for the station is safeguarded and probably just electrification to Hull so it looks like they're getting something. I seriously doubt there will be anything in between Huddersfield and Manchester, they may be a new line between Hudddersfield and Bradford thou although that will probably be about it!

Interesting! Where is the proposed site in Leeds?

 

[HSTEd]

Did anyone ever actually cancel it?

Even this article talks about the desire of the government to obtain "private investment" to fund it.
This just seems like an empty promise to get MPs to fall in line, I can't see it going anywhere.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Interesting! Where is the proposed site in Leeds?

Its the site of the proposed HS2 station upon Leeds South Bank.

 

[HSTEd]

The Guardian article talks about a need for private investment for the project to happen.

So as far as I can see nothing has changed, they just needed something to announce to the MPs before the Conference to make the mood less mutinous.

 

[Greetlander]

Plainly the only option is to run it through a Halifax Central station and then under the hills to Manchester. Thus ends my contribution to the debate.

 

[Harpo]

Cue consultancies gleefully rubbing hands.

 

[bringbackcrouc]

The Guardian article talks about a need for private investment for the project to happen.

So as far as I can see nothing has changed, they just needed something to announce to the MPs before the Conference to make the mood less mutinous.

So unless the government says it’s putting up the funding, this is all bread and circuses?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2025 ==

It’s the site of the proposed HS2 station upon Leeds South Bank.

So not a through station?

 

[Farnborough]

The Guardian article talks about a need for private investment for the project to happen.

Ah-ha! So the great Rail Nationalisation Plan fails at the first hurdle, when the Chancellor is asked to get the chequebook out!

 

[Magdalia]

So the great Rail Nationalisation Plan fails at the first hurdle

The first hurdle has already been successfully cleared, with some TOCs coming back into public ownership.

 

[yorksrob]

To be honest, with the TRU, I'm not convinced it'll be a a good use of money to duplicate it with another trans pennine main line in the area.

Better to invest somewhere else that hasn't already been done.

 

[stevieinselby]

To be honest, with the TRU, I'm not convinced it'll be a a good use of money to duplicate it with another trans pennine main line in the area.

Better to invest somewhere else that hasn't already been done.

The biggest issue with TRU as a replacement for NPR is that it leaves Bradford out in the cold with slow trains in all directions. I agree that a brand new trans-Pennine route is probably not a good use of scarce money, given the difficulty of the terrain it would have to deal with, but it would be good to see some ambition to improve speed and connectivity to Bradford.

 

[Farnborough]

The first hurdle has already been successfully cleared, with some TOCs coming back into public ownership.

We've had two operators change franchisee - nothing else has changed. So let's defer the "successfully" adverb

And a reminder that four franchises were ALREADY under DfT Operation. And they are definitely not the best franchises (and in Northern's case, arguably still amongst the worst!)

I have no dogma-driven preference between state- or privately-owned... I judge on performance - and SWR/SWT is a lot better now than in 1996. Let's travel hopefully, but realistically.

Anyway... this is risking dragging the thread off topic... so back to NPR/TPE...

 

[yorksrob]

The biggest issue with TRU as a replacement for NPR is that it leaves Bradford out in the cold with slow trains in all directions. I agree that a brand new trans-Pennine route is probably not a good use of scarce money, given the difficulty of the terrain it would have to deal with, but it would be good to see some ambition to improve speed and connectivity to Bradford.

Yes, improvements to the Calder valley line are certainly worthwhile. If they could speed it up a bit, an express type service continuing to Liverpool would have similar benefits.

That said, I was on one that seemed semi-fast, rather than slow to Manchester last week.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2025 ==

We've had two operators change franchisee - nothing else has changed. So let's defer the "successfully" adverb

And a reminder that four franchises were ALREADY under DfT Operation. And they are definitely not the best franchises (and in Northern's case, arguably still amongst the worst!)

I have no dogma-driven preference between state- or privately-owned... I judge on performance - and SWR/SWT is a lot better now than in 1996. Let's travel hopefully, but realistically.

Anyway... this is risking dragging the thread off topic... so back to NPR/TPE...

Trans Pennine seems a lot more reliable now (engineering works not withstanding) than a couple of years ago.

 

[goldisgood]

I’d hope this signals a revival of the Handsacre to Manchester HS2 leg, alongside a higher-speed upgrade of the Fiddlers Ferry Line to Liverpool connecting into this. This certainly seems like the lowest-hanging fruit, with much of the rest of the Transpennine Route being upgraded for now with TRU.

Getting the crayons out a bit here for those more in the know - would it be feasible for a smaller underground NPR station at Piccadilly (most likely with 200 metre platforms) alongside extending the current station for terminating services, then a tunnel emerging somewhere around Miles Platting? I don’t have much knowledge of Manchester’s underground geography, but on the surface looks like it could bring more incremental benefits of NPR and TRU, and should leave the door open for longer-term investment in a higher-speed Miles Platting to Marsden line.

 

[bringbackcrouc]

In terms of urgent decisions rather than mere aspirations, what does this mean for platforms for Euston and the scope of the rebuild. Is Peter Hendy furiously lobbying for a proper rebuild?

 

[CdBrux]

The biggest issue with TRU as a replacement for NPR is that it leaves Bradford out in the cold with slow trains in all directions. I agree that a brand new trans-Pennine route is probably not a good use of scarce money, given the difficulty of the terrain it would have to deal with, but it would be good to see some ambition to improve speed and connectivity to Bradford.

Or, looking at it the other way, one of the biggest issues for NPR was trying to serve Bradford

 

[HSTEd]

In terms of urgent decisions rather than mere aspirations, what does this mean for platforms for Euston and the scope of the rebuild. Is Peter Hendy furiously lobbying for a proper rebuild?

It ulatimately means nothing, the section of the HS2 alignment referenced is the tunnel between Manchester Airport and Manchester, it would have no impact on HS2 services out of Euston.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2025 ==

So unless the government says it’s putting up the funding, this is all bread and circuses?

Just a circus, no bread in sight.
NPR has been a live project all this time, this is just the government making an empty statement to ease the mood at the conference.

Unless the Government is willing to announce tens of billions in additional funding, nothing will happen.

 

[bringbackcrouc]

So this really is “government maintains current policy of maybe doing something in the future” announcement

 

[Grimsby town]

So this really is “government maintains current policy of maybe doing something in the future” announcement

What are the government supposed to do? While I'm not happy with everything labour have done since coming into power, there has to be a dose of realism and patience. NPR isn't shovel ready. The best that can be expected is that labour spend the rest of the parliament making schemes like Manchester to Liverpool, links to Bradford, and upgrades like Sheffield to Leeds shovel ready so they can be started in the early 2030s.

The only project that might be possible to start during this parliament is HS2 phase 2a or something very similar. It's a scheme that should be sufficiently designed and can utilise some of the skills and construction capacity that are freed as phase 1 of HS2 nears completion. Its also a line that could attract private funding if linked to a HS1 style concession for the whole of HS2. Therefore it won't impact the chancellors fiscal rules.

 

[Richardr]

Ah-ha! So the great Rail Nationalisation Plan fails at the first hurdle, when the Chancellor is asked to get the chequebook out!

It is a good point - if it needs private investment where is the return for that investment going to come from? If used by a nationalized railway, then presumably there will be a guaranteed return paid by that railway to the private investment firms. As ever, accounting tricks aside, it is cheaper for the government to borrow money directly.

 

[HSTEd]

The only project that might be possible to start during this parliament is HS2 phase 2a or something very similar. It's a scheme that should be sufficiently designed and can utilise some of the skills and construction capacity that are freed as phase 1 of HS2 nears completion. Its also a line that could attract private funding if linked to a HS1 style concession for the whole of HS2. Therefore it won't impact the chancellors fiscal rules.

No private capital is going to touch anything related to HS2's planning give how badly the project has gone. THe scheme and all related work is thoroughly tainted.

Even for HS1 the concession was only sold for a fraction of the cost of actually building the project.
The value of a HS2 concession is likely to be less than the cost of Phase 2A.

EDIT:

Also a concession would increase the railway's cost base, which is ultimately underwritten by the state. So it would definitely impact the fiscal rules as it would lead to increased cash subsidy to the railway.

 

[Grimsby town]

No private capital is going to touch anything related to HS2's planning give how badly the project has gone. THe scheme and all related work is thoroughly tainted.

But its not HS2 they'd be paying to build, it's phase 2a. There's reasons to be positive that phase 2a wouldn't have the problems of phase 1 e.g. skilled workforce from phase, far smaller and more manageable scheme, Labour simplifying planning requirements over this parliament.

Even for HS1 the concession was only sold for a fraction of the cost of actually building the project.
The value of a HS2 concession is likely to be less than the cost of Phase 2A.

But Phase 2a is a fraction of the overall cost of HS2. Government has paid for Phase 1 so that essentially subsidies the construction of phase 2a.

EDIT:

Also a concession would increase the railway's cost base, which is ultimately underwritten by the state. So it would definitely impact the fiscal rules as it would lead to increased cash subsidy to the railway.

The fiscal rules don't consider spending in future parliaments which is when any concession for 2a may need potential Government subsidy.

 

[brad465]

Shame, but not a surprise, that they are looking through the political lens of shoring up the party in order to apparently revive this project.

 

[David Bullock]

If they’re trying to keep they mayors happy they’ll announce a full new line with through stations at Manchester and Bradford. If they’re keeping hold of land for Leeds HS2 station then that might get used.

If they announce it in this way then it’s likely to go the way of the last project that included new high speed line, city centre approaches, and extensive station rebuilds/new stations all under a single banner.

 

[HSTEd]

But its not HS2 they'd be paying to build, it's phase 2a. There's reasons to be positive that phase 2a wouldn't have the problems of phase 1 e.g. skilled workforce from phase, far smaller and more manageable scheme, Labour simplifying planning requirements over this parliament.

It could only escape the problems of HS2 if the entire scheme was scrapped and started from a clean sheet of paper though.
Otherwise the same failures of management and design will be present as were present in Phase 1.

Just standing up an alternative delivery apparatus would take many years. They definitely would not want anything to do with the existing apparatus in any form, given how badly it has failed.

But Phase 2a is a fraction of the overall cost of HS2. Government has paid for Phase 1 so that essentially subsidies the construction of phase 2a.

The last cost estimate we had for Phase 2A still had it cost £7bn or so. Starting from now I would be very surprirsed if it came in at under £10bn. And remember that Phase 1 outturn costs increased radically in price from the estimates at a similar stage of project development.

Without the full delta I can't see the price of a HS2 concession getting up that high.

The fiscal rules don't consider spending in future parliaments which is when any concession for 2a may need potential Government subsidy.

The bond markets are jumpy enough as it is without attempting to hide a billion pounds a year or more of additional rail subsidy that the government will be committing future governments to for the forseable.