Flamingo
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She was. It still wasn't good enough. :roll:
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Guardian: "Penalised train passengers fight ticketing rules"
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She was. It still wasn't good enough. :roll:
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AndyLandy
Established Member
That's weird, it was working for me when I embedded it, but clearly isn't now. Here's the link straight to my TwitPic...
http://twitpic.com/3eak05
Where were you travelling from and to? Sure that isn't a "Saver Half Return"?
AndyLandy
Established Member
Can't remember specifically, probably something like Southampton or Euston to Crewe or Hartford (or vice-versa) -- I don't remember the details, but it was most definitely an 'advance' fare being offered for more than the cost of a single.
What's a 'Saver Half Return' -- Is that the 'web only' single ticket that TheTrainLine sells for half the cost of a return but "must be booked as part of a return journey." I've never looked into those, what are they for and why wouldn't you just buy a Saver Return and be done with?
And going back on-topic...
In fact, I was just reading through an (admittedly quite old) copy of the Advance Purchase rules. It actually states that you are permitted to excess an AP ticket, with an admin fee payable (£5 at the time). Don't know if that's still in the T&Cs, but if it is, I'm not sure I understand why it's not been mentioned before. You might not be permitted to do this on the train, but if you're intending to travel on a different train, you can excess your AP fare at the ticket office before you board...
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EM2
Established Member
I don't think anyone has said you can't amend an AP before travel. It's when passengers board, and expect to be able to do it during travel that's the issue.
SickyNicky
Verified Rep - FastJP
It's a flexible Off Peak Single ticket sold at half the cost of an Off Peak Return (which used to be known as a Saver). It's designed to be bought with an advance ticket in the other direction and is useful if you can commit to a particular train in one direction but need a flexible ticket in the other.
It's only available on some routes.
Minilad
Established Member
Can any guards on here give me (as a rough percentage) how many of the ticketing problems they face day to day are due to advance purchase tickets
I come across far more passengers fouling railcard Ts & Cs than I do problems with Advance tickets. In my experience almost all users of Advance tickets are fully aware they have to travel on their reserved trains and succeed in doing so.
Ive had 4 or 5 in the last 5 months travelling on the wrong train. As above, most people know they are only allowed to use the booked train. Also as above, far more people not carrying railcards.
From manned stations I rarely if ever sell railcard discounted or Off peak tickets for local journeys. For long distance fares I am more likely to sell them but always advise passengers of the rules.
Whenever I sell a ticket on the train for those who joined at manned stations I do now advise passengers that my company are employing revenue inspectors to follow up those who join at manned stations without a ticket or with the incorrect tickets or supporting documents.
From manned stations I rarely if ever sell railcard discounted or Off peak tickets for local journeys. For long distance fares I am more likely to sell them but always advise passengers of the rules.
Whenever I sell a ticket on the train for those who joined at manned stations I do now advise passengers that my company are employing revenue inspectors to follow up those who join at manned stations without a ticket or with the incorrect tickets or supporting documents.
The vast majority seem to abide by the T&Cs of advances - although I copped one just now trying it on with an FGW only ticket and no reservation. Fail! New single charged as per the T&Cs agreed by the passenger.
Far more galling was having to accept the money grudgingly offered by the thief who was reusing his return half of an SVR as I had no time to do the address verification/TIR thing. I made sure the whole carriage heard the conversation though, and boy was he squirming in his seat with a good few people staring at him.
Far more galling was having to accept the money grudgingly offered by the thief who was reusing his return half of an SVR as I had no time to do the address verification/TIR thing. I made sure the whole carriage heard the conversation though, and boy was he squirming in his seat with a good few people staring at him.
Flamingo
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I would say am even split, or 60-40 Advance tickets over missing railcards. I usually do an excess to the single relevant to that train plus £10. I honestly don't know why I bother to, though, as I get as much abuse as if I was doing new tickets. The people who are chancing their arm usually think that if they shout loud enough they will get their own way.
The question that I would like to know the answer to is how many of them get an apology from customer services and vouchers.
AndyLandy
Established Member
Out of curiosity, how did you know he was re-using it?
Minilad
Established Member
something that happens on internet forums as well as on trains it seems
The two stamps he'd attempted to rub out were a dead giveaway
Picking up on Flamingo's point, I'd go with a 60-40 split the other way - I get far more railcard issues than Advance on wrong train people. In particular, those with partly faded railcards are attempting to to extend their validity by the back door - in that they are hoping we won't look closely enough at them to realise they expired 6 months ago!!!!
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AndyLandy
Established Member
The two stamps he'd attempted to rub out were a dead giveaway
Yes, that would do it. Blimey, the audacity of some people, eh?
LondonJohn
Member
The whole country is going to the dogs. I want out.
You can't use Asda gift vouchers in Next. easyJet won't let me travel with a FlyBe ticket and a man at the border control wouldn't let me through without a passport even though I had proof (driving licence and bank statement) that I lived in this country - total jobsworths.
I have an account with Natwest, yet the staff at Lloyds TSb refused to give me £300.
My local gym does a "daytime" deal whereby I get a season ticket at 30% off if I go between 2pm & 4pm but yesterday I went at 10am and they wanted to charge me again - how stupid ! After all it's the same equipment I'll be using.
Last week I went to the post office to collect a Special Delivery Parcel. They wouldn't let me have it as I hadn't got proof of ID. I mean, come on! It said that on the card but you would have thought they would have put it in extra large neon print and also given me a telephone call just to make sure.
To top it all I got charged an extra £30 interest on my credit card bill. I know I had to have it paid by 10th May but I was 3 days late. They only gave me three weeks notice that I had to pay. You would have thought that they would have used some discretion !
Now I read this forum and find that the railways are charging people extra! Come on guys £100 on any train or £35 if you catch a specific train. I think you should be able to save £65 and get all the perks of a £100 ticket
So, I leaving the country. All I need to do now is find a bargain bucket £5 fare and an airline that will let me upgrade to First Class free of charge and use the Executive lounge at no extra cost
The bit about arriving at the Border without your passport is incorrect. Once they have verified your identity using whatever systems they have you will be permitted into the UK if you are a British Citizen.
The rules are not as straightforward as its made out to be. In infrequent traveller may buy an Off Peak ticket 2 or 3 times a year and finds that next time he buys that ticket, it isnt valid for the train he always used to catch because the TOC moved the goalpost when they changed the rules of the ticket in the last NFM update (read aka back door fare increase).
I travelled from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and back this week on the East Coast £25 First Class offer. It took me 125 minutes to get from where I live in London to Kings Cross on a journey that should take me 25 and I had allowed 75 minutes. TOC and TFL staff would not endorse my reservation to say delayed for whatever reason. They said that EC staff would be able to validate the delays online and rebook me.
When I arrived at KX I went to the help desk. They advised me I had to go to the ticket desk. The ticket desk made a phone call and checked the NR website and rebooked me on the next available train which was great however why wouldn't the TOC endorse my ticket.
Sitting behind me was a guy that wanted to upgrade to First Class..thinking he could do so for £25. The train manager told him it would be £140 so he moved rather sheepishly to his Standard Class seat. I am sure that I have seen threads where people have been prosecuted for sitting in 1st class without a first class ticket and not allowed to move .... consistent approach.?
A couple of TOCs (e.g. Southern and FCC) run primarily DOO services, so they throw the book at anyone caught in first class when not entitled, as a deterrent. EC and other long-distance operators don't need to do that, because on most trains most passengers will be gripped.
Although long distance operators are prepared to throw the book at somebody sat in FC when not entitled. I certainly did to one chap this year who thought he'd upgrade himself. Ok, he was given 3 chances to move to standard which I thought was more than reasonable!
I my trains, I would say 95% of people with STD tickets who sit in First Class, know what they are doing.
There's a mentality of "We'll sit in 1st class until we get told to move". On some journeys they know that the likileyhood of having their ticket checked is less than 10%.
Sometimes I will charge - rather than asking them to move.
There's a mentality of "We'll sit in 1st class until we get told to move". On some journeys they know that the likileyhood of having their ticket checked is less than 10%.
Sometimes I will charge - rather than asking them to move.
Flamingo
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Everybody can come up with examples of the "extreme" examples of people being inadvertently caught by ticket regulations.
However, the vast majority of people who get caught are fully aware that they are abusing the system in some way, and I'm afraid that the 95% who are chancing it do make it difficult for the 5% that are genuine.
Maybe it should be that 95% of deliberate evaders that attract the ire of the travelling public, not the TOC's for attempting to stop the abuse.
However, the vast majority of people who get caught are fully aware that they are abusing the system in some way, and I'm afraid that the 95% who are chancing it do make it difficult for the 5% that are genuine.
Maybe it should be that 95% of deliberate evaders that attract the ire of the travelling public, not the TOC's for attempting to stop the abuse.
SS4
Established Member
Hit the nail on the head there. It could also be stopped if the press actually decided to research these claims and then not publish or publish with the blame where it belongs.
"Unscrupulous passenger tries to defraud the railway"
Although since 4 of those 7 words have more than 5 letters no tabloid would touch it
They can of course happily attack the same people about other things though. It's just that they must check up some sort of flowchart to see who 'wins'. So, that foul mouthed chav might be attacked 95% of the time, but when they come up against two variables, with the other being the privately run railway, they have a dilemma.
If it was a family-run heritage railway, run by Mr Jones, 94, who has worked on the trains all of his life - then they'd probably switch allegiance pretty quick in favour of the railway.
If it was a family-run heritage railway, run by Mr Jones, 94, who has worked on the trains all of his life - then they'd probably switch allegiance pretty quick in favour of the railway.
Flamingo
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Best one I ever had was a pair with a National Express bus ticket...
Outstanding! One this morning wanted me to not excess her off-peak ticket because she had back pain!
Harlesden
Member
I am amazed by the number of people on a certain general Q & A forum who simply cant grasp the so simple concept of a Payday loan (short term loan repayable IN FULL on the next payday) and complain bitterly about harassment when they dont pay and the collection agency begins calling.
People also complain about creditor/collection agency flatly refusing to forgive their delinquent debt because they are either
(a) disabled (b) sick (c) long term unemployed (d) pregnant
Most bizarre of all is 15/16 year olds who deliberately and knowingly sign up for 18+ sites such as eBay and PayPal and then when they get into problem, ask if the threatened court action is legal on account of them being under age.
People also complain about creditor/collection agency flatly refusing to forgive their delinquent debt because they are either
(a) disabled (b) sick (c) long term unemployed (d) pregnant
Most bizarre of all is 15/16 year olds who deliberately and knowingly sign up for 18+ sites such as eBay and PayPal and then when they get into problem, ask if the threatened court action is legal on account of them being under age.
Flamingo
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I'm always amazed at the number of granny's that conveniently die on the same day that someone bought an advance ticket for.
I mean, it's one hell of a coincidence. A job for Derek Acorah, I think!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Unfortunately, Customer Service departments pander to them, increasing their feelings of self-importance and entitlement.
I mean, it's one hell of a coincidence. A job for Derek Acorah, I think!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A lot of people have an attitude that they don't have any personal responsibility, and the world owes them a living.
Unfortunately, Customer Service departments pander to them, increasing their feelings of self-importance and entitlement.
Outstanding! One this morning wanted me to not excess her off-peak ticket because she had back pain!
Sounds more like a pain in the arse!
This reminds me of a couple I came across about a year ago. The Bus they were due to travel on was cancelled and they were told they could travel on my train with National Express bus tickets. They seemed genuine and out of curiosity I rang our control expecting to be laughed at, but got told that we had indeed agreed to pass the bus tickets on our train but they'd forgotten to let me know.
Apparently the chap who worked at the National Express bus desk had a mate in our control and to get them out of a pickle we'd agreed to convey these passengers as a one off
.I can't help but agree with this, and if it isn't a death then it's almost always someone dying in hospital with just hours to live.
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