GTR ticket office changes

[Hadders]

At least Stevenage also has the VTEC travel centre which I think is open at weekends so there would be one window available during the day - perhaps VTEC will open a second window as they will gain extra commission from the ticket sales!

The posters at Letchworth and Potters bar both say 06:30 to 10:30am for the proposed ticket office opening hours, Mon-fri only.
there is usually a long queue at letchworth on saturday mornings plus the season renewals/tickets for the next day are often purchased when passengers return home (or need their season reprinting as they get the 09 error so they don't open the barriers anymore)

The VTEC office at Stevenage closes at 2pm on Saturdays and is closed all day Sunday's. This is an excellent little booking office and I do hope that a silver lining of GTR's proposals is that the future of this office is more secure.

 

[Sleepy]

I see the posters confirm that Hatfield will have no ticket offices open on Saturday or Sunday.

I now travel in most Saturdays to Essex Road, and see the queues which are awful, even if Arsenal ISN'T playing at home. Mostly people just wanting to go in to London for a day out (and why not given super off peak tickets are good value).

I use the machine outside, but those that don't can easily miss a train. You can argue they should go earlier, but does anyone expect to queue for 5-10 minutes or more to get a ticket?

Imagine when you ONLY have the TVMs and a member of staff you'll have to track down with a handheld machine.



UPDATE: Latest from the RMT

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/mass-rail-ticket-office-closure-plan-across-the-south/

Mass rail ticket office closure plan across the South finally kicks off today in total chaos.

RAIL UNION RMT said today that the public consultation over plans to axe and downgrade 81 rail station ticket offices across the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchise appears to have finally kicked off today in total and utter chaos as the union steps up the fight over the threat to services, jobs and safety.

RMT is aware that posters have gone up in stations party to the consultation, with questions already being asked about the accuracy of Govia Thameslink’s information on what the local impact will be as the process rolls on , and with the consultation period being hacked back to the bare-bones 21 days in what the union says is a mad dash to bulldoze through the bodged and rushed proposals. RMT says that it has never seen such flawed and twisted approach to a Section 17 consultation as the drive for cuts and profits slices through any serious attempt to gauge public opinion.

RMT made it clear today that the union campaign will be stepped up as Govia Thameslink blunder on with their shambolic consultation. A postcard and social media campaign is ready to roll urging the public to engage in the%

Thought ticket office staff are normally in TSSA union ? Is this not the case in GTR land?

 

[jon0844]

GTR does know people travel on weekends don't they? I mean, not just one or two - but loads. Enough that even without football, perhaps just a nice bit of weather, and the 4 car trains into London are often extremely busy and occasionally leave people behind (if people have bikes or buggies).

Perhaps if every window closed was replaced with a new TVM, it might help, but this is going to cause loads of problems. Not necessarily so much that people queuing say 'sod this' and go home, but quite possibly say 'I'm not doing this again' as my wife has even said to me before.

 

[infobleep]

They're obviously going to keep them open until 04.29, thus gaining over 31 extra hours a week

I hope the staff get paid for these additional hours.

Interestingly South West Trains applies to have the back and front entrances to Guildford closed between 1.30 and 4am to protect staff working at night.

They don't run any trains then but I can't see why that would make it more dangerous than a station which does, aka the Thameslink ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the smaller stations with barriers, I do see the point. It's a shame when barriers were fitted they were not done such that they could be managed from the ticket office rather than separate staff - this used to be much more common and still is the case in some places e.g. the "offside" at Slough.

The problem is the complexity of the ticketing system - it might be controversial but I wholeheartedly supported the move on LUL, but LUL is much simpler than the mainline. But to me, you can fit 2 or even 3 slimline TVMs in the space of one window - so they should do that (e.g. MKC would be better with say 20-30 TVMs than the present about 8 TVMs and 6 windows). I bet they won't, though.

 

[jon0844]

I'm sure the next step will be unmanned gates, rather like the massively reduced staffing at some supermarkets for self/auto checkouts. They'll all be checked remotely.

Those who can't operate the gate will likely speak on an intercom, or have to wait for assistance, and that will be considered acceptable (just as at my local Tesco, I can wait ages because one person has to deal with age verifications, random security checks, and other issues all at the same time) because they can still be opened in an emergency - either by the public and/or via sensors.

A great chance for more cuts.

Let's face it, the only safe jobs in the railway looking forward are driving jobs. And I'm sure people are still looking at how we might go driverless one day.

 

[JamesTT]

Hasn't the writing been on the wall about this and increase to DOO services since the McNulty report came out. There was an article in a paper about 5 years ago listing over 600 ticket offices in the country earmarked for reduced hours/closure

 

[Hadders]

For the smaller stations with barriers, I do see the point. It's a shame when barriers were fitted they were not done such that they could be managed from the ticket office rather than separate staff - this used to be much more common and still is the case in some places e.g. the "offside" at Slough.

The problem is the complexity of the ticketing system - it might be controversial but I wholeheartedly supported the move on LUL, but LUL is much simpler than the mainline. But to me, you can fit 2 or even 3 slimline TVMs in the space of one window - so they should do that (e.g. MKC would be better with say 20-30 TVMs than the present about 8 TVMs and 6 windows). I bet they won't, though.

I'm not against ticket offices being closed if it is done properly, as on the Underground. There practically all tickets are pre-purchased either via season tickets, National Rail outboundary travelcards, NR tickets with the Maltese cross or through Oyster PAYG or contactless. It is a self contained system with a relatively simple fare structure. Even then they've installed a large number of ticket machines and waited until Oyster and contactless was well established.

Compare and contrast to GTR at, say, Stevenage. You just know they won't install any additional TVMs, cue huge queues and the 'additional' staff will be nowhere to be seen on the concourse. Almost all tickets from Stevenage are stil paper and there seems little prospect of this changing anytime soon given the issues reported on here with The Key.

I just see a recipe for disaster, particularly at weekends with occasional travellers. I bet they don't even upgrade the TVMs to do Groupsave!

 

[jon0844]

Just like TVMs haven't been that quick to offer super off peak tickets in the past...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just see a recipe for disaster, particularly at weekends with occasional travellers. I bet they don't even upgrade the TVMs to do Groupsave!

This is where a simplification of the fares system would really help matters.

All Railcards plus GroupSave offer (with other restrictions) a 34% discount on the adult fare. All Railcards offering discount on child fares offer a 60% discount from the child fare.

So make the conditions of all Railcards the same (other than obviously who they are issued to and the area of validity), and make GroupSave the same as well and a national product, then have one simple button for the lot. Just like the Swiss have two simple buttons - full fare, or half fare.

Easy.

 

[jon0844]

Groupsave could indeed be an option within a new 'Discounts & Railcards' tab, or even done automatically with a pop-up asking if all passengers will be travelling together? If the answer is yes, apply the discount. If no, don't.

TVM software could be a LOT more intuitive, and adding more intelligence would NOT mean making the user experience more complicated. It's more complicated now by trying to be simple because things aren't very logical, and inconsistent on different systems.

ATOC should hire any good web/app designer to come up with an all new UI that can be as simple or as advanced as the user wants, which would go right back to the first screen.

 

[Hadders]

Groupsave could indeed be an option within a new 'Discounts & Railcards' tab, or even done automatically with a pop-up asking if all passengers will be travelling together? If the answer is yes, apply the discount. If no, don't.

TVM software could be a LOT more intuitive, and adding more intelligence would NOT mean making the user experience more complicated. It's more complicated now by trying to be simple because things aren't very logical, and inconsistent on different systems.

ATOC should hire any good web/app designer to come up with an all new UI that can be as simple or as advanced as the user wants, which would go right back to the first screen.

This all needs to be done and embedded before the booking offices are closed. You just know this won't happen with GTR.

 

[b127222]

I think it would be quite amusing to turn up on Saturday afternoon in December to buy a season ticket ticket from a roaming station host with a ticket machine, and pay for the £5k ticket in cash.

 

[jon0844]

This all needs to be done and embedded before the booking offices are closed. You just know this won't happen with GTR.

To be fair, ATOC needs to be doing it (with the DfT) and then each TOC can add limited branding. As you say, GTR wouldn't.

We need a standard user interface for ticket machines nationally, and especially when I am sure that if GTR succeeds in cutting staff, everyone will do it.

 

[amateur]

I think it would be quite amusing to turn up on Saturday afternoon in December to buy a season ticket ticket from a roaming station host with a ticket machine, and pay for the £5k ticket in cash.

Would anyone pay with that amount in cash?

 

[RJ]

Would anyone pay with that amount in cash?

You'd be surprised...

 

[Surreytraveller]

Would anyone pay with that amount in cash?

Yep. People avoiding tax or other reasons for not wanting to leave an electronic paper trial of their cash flows will tend to pay in cash.

 

[Haywain]

I have taken cash payment in a ticket office of around £20,000 for a single transaction (a bulk purchase of 1st Anytime returns), and have taken annual season ticket payments in excess of £5,000 paid in cash. However, in such cases details of the person paying should be taken for potential investigation of money laundering. Someone who once enquired about buying a very high value annual season and paying cash declined to continue when told that we would need to take name, address and see some ID as verification.

 

[island]

Just want to nip this one in the bud. TOCs are not "relevant persons" for the purposes of the Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and are under no obligation to inquire into the provenance of any money tendered to them for the purchase of railway tickets nor to take up identification of persons purchasing high value tickets in cash or otherwise.

Like "health & safety" and "data protection", "money laundering" is increasingly being cited by people who don't understand it as a reason for taking steps which there is no need to take and incurring effort which there is no need to incur.

 

[jon0844]

I can see them asking for ID if only for some belief that if the notes turned out to be fake, there would be some comeback. I doubt there could be, but maybe it might put someone off trying to pass off fake notes.

 

[Starmill]

Quite. I suspect Haywain was referring to individual train company policy - which presumably they are entitled to?

 

[island]

Such a policy would be at risk of failure to comply with Schedule 1 to the Data Protection Act 1998, Part 1, paragraphs 2-3.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I can see them asking for ID if only for some belief that if the notes turned out to be fake, there would be some comeback. I doubt there could be, but maybe it might put someone off trying to pass off fake notes.

All bank notes should be tested at the point of sale and any that are not real should not be accepted. There are many ways to determine the legitimacy of a bank note at the point of sale.

 

[Hadders]

Getting back on topic....

I was at Stevenage station earlier. I am told that they sell around 1,500 tickets on a Saturday (it's more when Arsenal are playing at home).

Looking at the poster in place at the station I'm struggling to understand some of the benefits they claim:

'Station staffed from first to last services 7 days a week' - it is already staffed 24/7
'Passenger facilities available for longer' - what facilities are going to be open for longer. The toilets are already open 24/7 as are the waiting rooms.

The consultation closes on 14th March. I think as many people as possible should write in to voice concern.

 

[jon0844]

All bank notes should be tested at the point of sale and any that are not real should not be accepted. There are many ways to determine the legitimacy of a bank note at the point of sale.

Yes I'm sure, but wonder if they'd still ask for some ID just to be sure - as in someone accepting that amount of money may worry about checking properly - despite numerous security features.

 

[Skimble19]

Getting back on topic....

I was at Stevenage station earlier. I am told that they sell around 1,500 tickets on a Saturday (it's more when Arsenal are playing at home).

Looking at the poster in place at the station I'm struggling to understand some of the benefits they claim:

'Station staffed from first to last services 7 days a week' - it is already staffed 24/7
'Passenger facilities available for longer' - what facilities are going to be open for longer. The toilets are already open 24/7 as are the waiting rooms.

The consultation closes on 14th March. I think as many people as possible should write in to voice concern.

Same as at Hatfield, and Welwyn, and Hitchin, Letchworth, Royston, Potters Bar... Essentially nearly all of them are 24/7 now with either 24/7 or near 24/7 facilities, but you probably aren't meant to know that!

With regards to Stevenage TVMs, no there will not be any extra machines installed there.

Also someone asked what Union booking office staff are in.. On GN most station based staff are either RMT or TSSA.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Yes I'm sure, but wonder if they'd still ask for some ID just to be sure - as in someone accepting that amount of money may worry about checking properly - despite numerous security features.

GTR might have it's own policy, but, for my company, it's really not up to the clerk to do more than check the legitimacy of the notes using the resources available. If a clerk feels they are not in a position to do so, that should be taken up with management and, if necessary, their union representative.

 

[jon0844]

GTR might have it's own policy, but, for my company, it's really not up to the clerk to do more than check the legitimacy of the notes using the resources available. If a clerk feels they are not in a position to do so, that should be taken up with management and, if necessary, their union representative.

May not even be TOC policy, just someone looking out for the themselves?

Wouldn't be the first time someone (in any profession) made up some rules that didn't exist!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can see them asking for ID if only for some belief that if the notes turned out to be fake, there would be some comeback. I doubt there could be, but maybe it might put someone off trying to pass off fake notes.

Money laundering isn't just about fake notes, it's about "cleaning" notes used in a crime by swapping them for ones not involved in the crime by way of what seems an innocent transaction. With an annual season, the obvious way to do that would be to pay for one, then refund it a week or so later. "Clean" notes at a very low fee.

 

[Haywain]

Money laundering isn't just about fake notes, it's about "cleaning" notes used in a crime by swapping them for ones not involved in the crime by way of what seems an innocent transaction. With an annual season, the obvious way to do that would be to pay for one, then refund it a week or so later. "Clean" notes at a very low fee.

Spot on, and no data protection issues because a database of season ticket holders is already maintained.