GTR revenue protection- seeking advice

[jabila12]

Hey all, unfortunately I got caught shorting my stations from Royston to King’s Cross, in actuality I was paying Alexandra palace to King’s Cross and visa versa.
Curious to know do they check all buying platforms and if so how far back to they check roughly?
Obviously gutted it’s happened I’d just started a new job and first time commuting into London so was trying to save a few quid and that I’ve read how to proceed with letters going forward.
Just trying to get an idea on what payment will look like so I have it ready.
This happened yesterday

 

[John R]

Hey all, unfortunately I got caught shorting my stations from Royston to King’s Cross, in actuality I was paying Alexandra palace to King’s Cross and visa versa.
Curious to know do they check all buying platforms and if so how far back to they check roughly?
Obviously gutted it’s happened I’d just started a new job and first time commuting into London so was trying to save a few quid and that I’ve read how to proceed with letters going forward.
Just trying to get an idea on what payment will look like so I have it ready.
This happened yesterday

They will certainly check the platform you bought the ticket on - whether they do any others I am not sure. They will certainly go back a few years on whatever platform you have used to identify any other suspicious transactions.

In terms of possible settlement amounts I would work on the worst case scenario, which will be an Anytime Single fare from Royston to KX for each journey you have made and shorted the fare. That's currently £28.90, though will be slightly less before the recent fare increase. You should then add around £150 for their admin costs.

 

[jabila12]

Hey thanks for this,
They took two pictures one on TrainPal of the ticket but History wise they took of Trainline where I hadn’t shorted anything on but also hadn’t used since December. I got given the caution though I imagine I still get the same letter as everyone else?

 

[jon0844]

The code they scanned will show which platform you used and they can get the details from that.

 

[jabila12]

The code they scanned will show which platform you used and they can get the details from that.

Thought that might be the case, only been doing it a few months so hopefully won’t be too bad but will deffo keep a few quid spare.
If I read correctly timeline is about two months?

 

[AlterEgo]

Not sure we’ve seen Trainpal cave to a train company’s begging letters asking for the lowdown on customer purchases. Can anyone point to an example?

 

[jabila12]

Not sure we’ve seen Trainpal cave to a train company’s begging letters asking for the lowdown on customer purchases. Can anyone point to an example?

Hey, not too sure what this means I’ll be honest

 

[AlterEgo]

Hey, not too sure what this means I’ll be honest

It means I’m not certain Chinese owned Trainpal will release customer data under spurious “detection of crime” reasons when train companies ask for it. Not all retailers do. Trainline do - always.

 

[jabila12]

Hi guys,
I posted in hear towards the start of march about being caught shorting tickets between Royston & King’s Cross - I still haven’t received any letter about this in the post with it now being well over a month since the incident.
I also move homes this weekend but don’t want to remind them of the incident so 1. When should I expect to hear from them
2. Is re-routing my post good enough or should I inform them

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi guys,
I posted in hear towards the start of march about being caught shorting tickets between Royston & King’s Cross - I still haven’t received any letter about this in the post with it now being well over a month since the incident.
I also move homes this weekend but don’t want to remind them of the incident so 1. When should I expect to hear from them
2. Is re-routing my post good enough or should I inform them

It's vital you receive any communication from them if you want to avoid this escalating to prosecution without you knowing (and i would suggest that is very important to do because untangling such an outcome will be tricky, time consuming, and cost you more) - so if you don't want to advise GTR of a change of address directly - then you should certainly re-direct your post via Royal Mail (see Royal Mail website).

In general terms I would advise anyone changing address to do that anyway.

Also see this recent thread for info on timelines, notifying change of address from post #13 onwards etc

Witness statement Report From GTR

Hello, Yesterday I Got a Witness statement Report From GTR and they said in 14 days you will get a letter from GTR, i was trying to buy short distance tickets from 2 months so the inspector took all my details even took pictures of my trainline ticket history, i have seen so many things online...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[jabila12]

I’m happy to do whichever way is best to be honest, still at the address I gave them, time frame how long does it usually take to get the 1st letter from them because I’m yet to see that

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m happy to do whichever way is best to be honest, still at the address I gave them, time frame how long does it usually take to get the 1st letter from them because I’m yet to see that

see the timeline info I quoted in the other thread link I just posted for an example of how long - could easily be 6 to 8 weeks plus before they write to you

 

[Hadders]

I am reliably informed that GTR have a significant backlog of cases at present so initial letters are taking longer than noral to be sent.

 

[jabila12]

Hi all,
I got this letter come through today, would like your advice on how to reply, needs to go today

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2025 ==

Hi all,
I got this letter come through today, would like your advice on how to reply, needs to go today

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2025 ==

Hi all,
I got this letter come through today, would like your advice on how to reply, needs to go today

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2025 ==

 

[Tetchytyke]

Well you need to give us more details than that. Where were you stopped (I presume Royston, was this on the station?). Why were you stopped? What, if anything, did you say to the inspector? What ticket did you hold? Did you apply a railcard discount you aren’t entitled to?

 

[jfollows]

Indeed, if you’re serious about getting help then please read and follow advice in https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/please-read-before-posting-in-disputes-prosecutions.77759/

 

[jabila12]

Well you need to give us more details than that. Where were you stopped (I presume Royston, was this on the station?). Why were you stopped? What, if anything, did you say to the inspector? What ticket did you hold? Did you apply a railcard discount you aren’t entitled to?

Stopped at Royston yes correct. Stopped when they were blocking the exit with no barriers and were routine checking.
Held a shorted ticket recently purchased with a valid railcard.
Agreed that I had the wrong ticket but don’t really remember what was said.
How are things usually progressed from here?

 

[Tetchytyke]

What ticket did you hold? Was your railcard valid? How many times have you done it? What does your ticket purchase history show?

 

[jabila12]

What ticket did you hold? Was your railcard valid? How many times have you done it? What does your ticket purchase history show?

I believe I held a Letchworth garden city to Royston, valid railcard. Not sure how many times it had been don’t but a few months worth but never bumping any barriers.
Ticket history the took a photo of but I was using Trainline which I don’t normally do so the history was normally but trainpal wasn’t but he didn’t take a photo of that

 

[Tetchytyke]

They can look at more than one retailer.

Your reply will need to address any previous short-faring, given that GTR have specifically stated they have evidence of this, as well as the incident at Royston. How frequently did you do this?

Others will be along to proof-read any suggested letter you write.

If GTR agree to a settlement it will usually be £150 plus the dates you avoided. And when they calculate this they use the anytime single fare.

 

[jabila12]

They can look at more than one retailer.

Your reply will need to address any previous short-faring, given that GTR have specifically stated they have evidence of this, as well as the incident at Royston. How frequently did you do this?

Others will be along to proof-read any suggested letter you write.

If GTR agree to a settlement it will usually be £150 plus the dates you avoided. And when they calculate this they use the anytime single fare.

Because they left it vague as to what times they have tbh I’m not 100% sure and I said at the time I didn’t have a valid ticket thinking of sending this in response:

I’m am replying as a result of the discussion to be had with the fraud department about the investigation that has taken place.
I also would like to use this opportunity to apologise a second time for my actions as I was not aware on the severity & impact my actions can have on the network and would like to make it clear that I intend to comply with the investigation fully.

 

[jfollows]

To be honest, if I were GTR I’d be thinking of recommending prosecution.

If you want GTR to settle out of court, you’ve got to

• acknowledge the mistake you made
• apologise for the implications
• explain convincingly why you won’t be repeating your mistake
• ask for a settlement out of court for which you will cooperate with their investigation

Not a huge letter, no excuses needed, but something which comes across as genuine, there are lots of examples in this section of the forum

Anything too short and missing key points comes across as rushed and not genuine

Above all, they won’t settle if they think you’re going to do whatever you did again.

Of course, what I think doesn’t matter. But you must try and engage with GTR on this, and at the moment I just don’t sense you are doing.

 

[jabila12]

To be honest, if I were GTR I’d be thinking of recommending prosecution.

If you want GTR to settle out of court, you’ve got to

• acknowledge the mistake you made
• apologise for the implications
• explain convincingly why you won’t be repeating your mistake
• ask for a settlement out of court for which you will cooperate with their investigation

Not a huge letter, no excuses needed, but something which comes across as genuine, there are lots of examples in this section of the forum

Anything too short and missing key points comes across as rushed and not genuine

Above all, they won’t settle if they think you’re going to do whatever you did again.

Thank you for this & yeah I have been looking through just haven’t seen them ask for an email back before.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,
I got this letter come through today, would like your advice on how to reply, needs to go today

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2025 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2025 ==

Did you reply to an earlier letter from them if you received one?

What you have posted is one of their standard letters (usually seen as a follow up to an initial reply) when they have found persistent evidence of evasion. Seen it on one or two other recent GTR threads.

As well as the usual apology etc and request to settle it’s usually recommended you address the issue of it not being a one off on your reply plus eg ‘if you could supply details of other occasions where you believe I may not have had the correct ticket please let me have a list so that I can check my own records of travel as I am anxious to co operate with your investigation in the hope this allows the matter to be resolved without court action’

Also do your own calculations on fares evaded to get an idea what they will ask for financially so you are prepared for this.

 

[Hadders]

GTR will probably settle if you co-operate with them. I would write a short, concise reply stating:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and GTR's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

You should address the other occasions where you have short fared. I would research your Trainpal account which should show the purchase history (you might need to do this on the website rather than through the app) and say something like:

I have searched my online ticket purchasing account and believe that between xx/xx/xxxx and yy/yy/yyyy I evaded paying the correct fare on zz occasions.

You'll find plenty of examples of letters that other people have sent to GTR in similar circumstances. If you post a draft reply in this thread forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.