GTR KeyGo During Revenue Inspection

[ns274]

I was travelling from Brighton to London with Key Go on a Gatwick Express service. I touched in normally at Brighton.

Just before Haywards Heath an RPI took place. The RPO scanned my card on their handheld device, and surprisingly, he said he couldn't see I was touched in. I immediately read my card with the Ecebs app and the transient ticket did record a Brighton entry tap. He looked ready to PF me and started asking where I as travelling to, but it appeared that the tap had came through the internet as this happened. He explained that his hand-held device uses mobile data.

I always assumed that handheld devices read the transient ticket only during a revenue inspection, as mobile signals on GTR's network aren't always the greatest. In the Oyster area some RPOs would read a Key Go with the TfL yellow reader and I assume that is fully offline. But it appears that GTR doesn't find this enough on their own devices.

 

[Adam Williams]

I always assumed that handheld devices read the transient ticket only during a revenue inspection

I am very surprised to hear it doesn't work like this - I had thought that the whole draw of smartcards (over e.g. EMV) was that data could be securely written back to the card to facilitate ticket inspections.

I immediately read my card with the Ecebs app and the transient ticket did record a Brighton entry tap

It's very lucky that you had the app and knew to use it. I wonder how many less knowledgeable passengers this has screwed over?

it appeared that the tap had came through the internet as this happened. He explained that his hand-held device uses mobile data

If it didn't initially have connectivity at the beginning, why on earth did it continue operating and present the RPI with a stale view of the state of the Smartcard? That's a terrible mode of failure.

Combined with the recent thread about TfL's RID I am not convinced that these devices receive nearly enough assurance for something that can result in passengers being prosecuted or given penalty fares.

 

[sot]

Don't some of their barriers only do this in batches? I seem to recall they place a 2hr or 2 day timer on when you are able to 'pick up' a keygo?

 

[Edvid]

I am very surprised to hear it doesn't work like this - I had thought that the whole draw of smartcards (over e.g. EMV) was that data could be securely written back to the card to facilitate ticket inspections.

It's very lucky that you had the app and knew to use it. I wonder how many less knowledgeable passengers this has screwed over?

If it didn't initially have connectivity at the beginning, why on earth did it continue operating and present the RPI with a stale view of the state of the Smartcard? That's a terrible mode of failure.

Combined with the recent thread about TfL's RID I am not convinced that these devices receive nearly enough assurance for something that can result in passengers being prosecuted or given penalty fares.

Sounds like reason enough to send another device-related FoI request once GTR joins the DfT Operator fold on Sunday...

 

[Wallsendmag]

Don't some of their barriers only do this in batches? I seem to recall they place a 2hr or 2 day timer on when you are able to 'pick up' a keygo?

That's a HOPS limitation not the inferior gates that GTR use.

 

[MrJeeves]

Every time I've been revenue checked with keyGo they've always used the Ecebs app to check for the transient ticket. This is quite a concerning story, if they are relying on internet-based lookups for touches.

 

[sot]

Every time I've been revenue checked with keyGo they've always used the Ecebs app to check for the transient ticket. This is quite a concerning story, if they are relying on internet-based lookups for touches.

Yes indeed when the transient ticket can very clearly state the station of entry definitively. Very poor show indeed if they are now relying on a less reliable medium.

Is it this or maybe they are unhappy that it has been tapped in at some station that day but no idea how it may have been (ab)used in the mean time?

 

[MrJeeves]

Is it this or maybe they are unhappy that it has been tapped in at some station that day but no idea how it may have been (ab)used in the mean time?

Such is PAYG; they shouldn't care how you get there.

From the keyGo terms:

3.4. Valid Journeys: Your Journey must be completed within 4 hours and 36 minutes of the start of your Journey. If the time between touching in at the start and touching out at the end of your Journey exceeds this limit, then your Journey will be treated as Incomplete. Each Journey must be within the keyGo Network area to be considered a Valid Journey otherwise it will be considered as Incomplete.

3.5. When making a rail Journey, you are permitted to break your Journey. Each Journey will be calculated as part of our “capped day fare” offer, subject to there being no more than four hours thirty-six minutes (4hrs 36mins) elapsing between any “touch in” and a corresponding “touch out”. Each time you leave a station and touch out you will be deemed to have ended that particular Journey unless you re-enter the keyGo Network Area. When doing so, we will calculate a capped fare for your entire Journey (from your first touch “in” on a day to your last touch out on a day) as explained above subject to there being no more than four hours thirty-six minutes (4hrs 36mins) elapsing between any “touch in” and a corresponding “touch out”, subject to your compliance with these Conditions.

[...]

4. Smartcard inspections while travelling

4.1. When travelling, you may be asked to show your Smartcard for inspection. The Smartcard will be checked for any valid tickets, travelling within the keyGo Network Area and that the Smartcard has been validated (“touched in”) at the start of the Journey.

4.2. If there are no valid tickets, you are travelling outside the keyGo Network Area or the Smartcard has not been validated, you are liable to pay a Penalty Fare for travelling without a valid ticket.

The only restriction is the time you spend travelling. How you spend that time is irrelevant.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have often had RPIs inspect my ticket on the bit with lots of tunnels, Great Northern must use the transient ticket. Once I got on a New Southgate the RPI got me in the tunnel before Oakleigh park with no issues. There would be no way the ticket could have got to the RPI even if we were fully in the open.

 

[sot]

I have had it in the past where the ecebs only reads every other time, maybe just an issue with my device?

 

[johncrossley]

I was travelling from Brighton to London with Key Go on a Gatwick Express service. I touched in normally at Brighton.

Just before Haywards Heath an RPI took place. The RPO scanned my card on their handheld device, and surprisingly, he said he couldn't see I was touched in. I immediately read my card with the Ecebs app and the transient ticket did record a Brighton entry tap. He looked ready to PF me and started asking where I as travelling to, but it appeared that the tap had came through the internet as this happened. He explained that his hand-held device uses mobile data.

I always assumed that handheld devices read the transient ticket only during a revenue inspection, as mobile signals on GTR's network aren't always the greatest. In the Oyster area some RPOs would read a Key Go with the TfL yellow reader and I assume that is fully offline. But it appears that GTR doesn't find this enough on their own devices.

Do you have the name of the inspector, or can you at least identify what train you were on? This sounds like a scam trying to pretend you didn't touch in when you did. This needs reporting to Transport Focus. There might even be scope for an accusation of fraud against the inspector or GTR if this behaviour is encouraged. It might also be worth contacting news organisations.

 

[sot]

I tell you what I didn't even think of that!

 

[ns274]

Do you have the name of the inspector, or can you at least identify what train you were on? This sounds like a scam trying to pretend you didn't touch in when you did. This needs reporting to Transport Focus. There might even be scope for an accusation of fraud against the inspector or GTR if this behaviour is encouraged. It might also be worth contacting news organisations.

It was 1W55 on 23 May.

The inspector did apologise and moved on as soon as the tap "gone through" though, and was also scanning tickets of other passengers. Not sure if they are genuinely trained by GTR to use the online data.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2026 ==

I have often had RPIs inspect my ticket on the bit with lots of tunnels, Great Northern must use the transient ticket. Once I got on a New Southgate the RPI got me in the tunnel before Oakleigh park with no issues. There would be no way the ticket could have got to the RPI even if we were fully in the open.

Out of curiosity, what device did the RPI use?

I've seen RPIs using the TfL yellow hand-held devices for ITSO in Oyster and contactless area and that usually works fine.

 

[blimmo]

I wonder if the RPI misinterpreted the display on their reader and "the scan data coming through" was them realising they had misinterpreted and trying to cover themselves.

 

[Failed Unit]

It was 1W55 on 23 May.

The inspector did apologise and moved on as soon as the tap "gone through" though, and was also scanning tickets of other passengers. Not sure if they are genuinely trained by GTR to use the online data.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2026 ==


Out of curiosity, what device did the RPI use?

I've seen RPIs using the TfL yellow hand-held devices for ITSO in Oyster and contactless area and that usually works fine.

They have 2 in our area. I am sure it was the oyster one. The opposite one to the credit card the person sat next to me was scanned with

 

[flitwickbeds]

Such is PAYG; they shouldn't care how you get there.

From the keyGo terms:



The only restriction is the time you spend travelling. How you spend that time is irrelevant.

What an unusual travel time restriction of 4h36m. I presume that's calculated from the longest possible journey including waiting for connections on the network, plus maybe a buffer for delays? Having been delayed for 2+ hours on more than one occasion on Thameslink, I wonder what would happen in that situation?

 

[Jan Mayen]

What would be the longest possible journey using KeyGo? Southampton to Peterborough?

 

[Edvid]

What would be the longest possible journey using KeyGo? Southampton to Peterborough?

Definitely not that; both stations are outside the keyGo area.

 

[Failed Unit]

Another possible quick win of GBR. Extend keyGo to all stations receiving a regular GTR service (Cambridge and Peterborough in the north)

 

[johncrossley]

I downloaded the Smart Ticket Checker app today and scanned by Key card which has KeyGo on it. There appears to be no record of my Network Railcard on it. That suggests it should never be requested during an inspection.

 

[Haywain]

I downloaded the Smart Ticket Checker app today and scanned by Key card which has KeyGo on it. There appears to be no record of my Network Railcard on it. That suggests it should never be requested during an inspection.

My Railcard has been requested during inspections when using KeyGo, so something tells them about it.

 

[MrJeeves]

Whatever online tool the RPIs use should inform them about a linked Railcard.

They should check the smartcard with that first, and then with Ecebs as a back-up if their online lookup tool doesn't report the touch in.

It's pot luck whether you get an RPI that does the full shebang, only uses Ecebs, does nothing at all after you wave a smartcard in their eyeline, or does it wrongly in some way!

I know my local gateline staff have scanned the barcode(!) on my Key smartcard in an attempt to look up the smartcard details before when it didn't open a gateline, but the only time this has happen it resulted in an error so they just let me through anyway.

 

[Wallsendmag]

What would be the longest possible journey using KeyGo? Southampton to Peterborough?

Key Go certainly won't work our gates in Peterborough