GTR Fare Evasion - ~£1800 settlement

[trainsaxophone]

Hi,

In February I was stopped at the station and found to not have the correct ticket for my journey. I thought I was being smart and would buy a cheaper ticket than my commute required.

GTR reached out recently regarding their investigation. I responded, apologised, and stated I am willing to cooperate to reach a settlement.

I received the settlement proposal today. They have applied the fare evasion calculation to my entire travel history, not just my commute. I live in London; 80% of the journeys listed were my commute and I accept responsibility for those. However, for the other 20% of journeys, they were typical journeys where I had a valid ticket (not my regular commute, just visiting friends for example). GTR is assuming these were fraudulent too and is demanding the full undiscounted price (~£30 per journey). Additionally, they claim I cannot qualify for my 16-25 Railcard discount during a settlement. This means the settlement is a lot higher than I anticipated.

My biggest questions are:
- Is it recommended to dispute individual journeys?
- Do I have to pay the journey at full price and not my valid Railcard discount price?
- Does a affordable repayment plan ever get granted?

Kind regards,
TS

 

[Watershed]

On which date in February were you stopped? GTR have much greater recourse (i.e. the ability to prosecute you) if it was within the last 6 months. So they will probably want to wrap up any settlement within 6 months, or may even start a prosecution just before the time limit in order to make sure they don't miss it if the discussions are ongoing.

Because of the aforementioned ability to prosecute you but only if they bring it within 6 months, GTR are less likely to accept a payment plan. There is nothing to stop you agreeing to it and then defaulting on the payments a month or two down the line, leaving them having to bring a civil claim against you to get the remainder. A civil claim is not as simple or 'sausage factory' like as adding another case to their frequent prosecution sessions in court.

If you're facing a prosecution, the fact that you (presumably) do not want a criminal record means would mean you are not in a strong position to negotiate regarding things such as getting Railcard discounts on your fares. By contrast if it is a civil matter due to the journey where you were caught being 6+ months ago, there is more scope for arguing those points.

In either case GTR should hopefully be amenable to removing the journeys where you did have a legitimate ticket, provided you can provide some kind of proof of this (e.g. the original ticket, booking confirmation, bank or credit card statements showing a matching amount etc.).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Puzzled as to why GTR also appear to be adding in the cost of the occasional (i.e. non-commute) travel into the settlement amount, unless there is some additional reason that we've not been told.

 

[trainsaxophone]

Stopped me 13th Feb at St Albans City.

I think they believe that any journey should have started at my home destination Herne Hill. Including the journeys from elephant & castle but that's really just where i got off.

 

[SECR 65]

I can see detailed answers have been given above, but I'll just add some brief thoughts. I am actually suprised that they have trawled through your journey history - I can't recall ever having seen GTR bother in the dozens of cases on the forum in the past few months I've been around.

- Is it recommended to dispute individual journeys?

Yes - go for it. Hopefully they will believe you. I would suggest you provide some kind of explanation e.g. I was on a work trip from x to y because we have an office at [insert address] or I was visiting a friend who lives at [insert address] or I started at z today because my sister gave me a lift or whatever.

- Do I have to pay the journey at full price and not my valid Railcard discount price?

Railcard discounts are unlikely to be applied in the settlement amount.

- Does a affordable repayment plan ever get granted?

As said above, it's unlikely, but there is no harm in asking for one.

I would suggest that it's in your best interest to cooperate with GTR and potentially accept the settlement. You don't want to end up in court as you've been lucky to recieve this offer. If you're able to borrow some money e.g from family, I would suggest asking them to remove the journeys with a valid ticket with an explanation of journey as above, then paying the remaining settlement amount.

 

[Watershed]

Stopped me 13th Feb at St Albans City.

I think they believe that any journey should have started at my home destination Herne Hill. Including the journeys from elephant & castle but that's really just where i got off.

Do you have anything that might provide evidence as to the fact you used Elephant & Castle? E.g. work or friends nearby, or things you might have bought in the area?

The fare from Elephant & Castle isn't very much less than from Herne Hill (£27.20 vs £31.40 for an Anytime Day Return) so if they don't agree to reduce it, it's not as if you are losing out majorly.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,

In February I was stopped at the station and found to not have the correct ticket for my journey. I thought I was being smart and would buy a cheaper ticket than my commute required.

GTR reached out recently regarding their investigation. I responded, apologised, and stated I am willing to cooperate to reach a settlement.

I received the settlement proposal today. They have applied the fare evasion calculation to my entire travel history, not just my commute. I live in London; 80% of the journeys listed were my commute and I accept responsibility for those. However, for the other 20% of journeys, they were typical journeys where I had a valid ticket (not my regular commute, just visiting friends for example). GTR is assuming these were fraudulent too and is demanding the full undiscounted price (~£30 per journey). Additionally, they claim I cannot qualify for my 16-25 Railcard discount during a settlement. This means the settlement is a lot higher than I anticipated.

My biggest questions are:
- Is it recommended to dispute individual journeys?
- Do I have to pay the journey at full price and not my valid Railcard discount price?
- Does a affordable repayment plan ever get granted?

Kind regards,
TS

At the end of the day they have you over a barrel - pay the settlement they are asking for or they will prosecute you for the one case they caught you red handed and they will win in court. You will get a court fine, costs, victim surcharge and criminal record (that may or may not have further financial consequences for you).

Despite most people who do pay their correct fares probably thinking that evaders should have the book thrown at them, what we find in practice is that railway companies (esp GTR) are generally prepared to agree settlements out of court if you co-operate with them, and remove fares they find suspicious from what they believe you may owe if they believe you are being co-operating and telling the truth and / or can ideally provide some supporting evidence - however weak or strong that might be - to back up your story in cases where you have not evaded.

The key to this is probably no more than imagining you are the person working in the train companies investigation / prosecution team and think about what might convince them that you are co-operating with them and telling the truth at this point.

I suppose they need to retain an element of the punitive about their settlements which is why I suspect sums already paid or offering the railcard discount now (when you failed to play the game according to the rules at your point of travel) is not being factored in.

Bear in mind they will be mindful of the 6 month time limit mentioned above and might issue court papers any time in order not to miss that deadline (we do see cases where it seems that for no other reason than GTR are running out of time they just issue court papers directly) - so best to try and conclude things before they do that, although you can still remain in dialogue with them about settling it out of court if you do suddenly get court papers - but of course the stakes are increased somewhat.

 

[Haywain]

Additionally, they claim I cannot qualify for my 16-25 Railcard discount during a settlement. This means the settlement is a lot higher than I anticipated.

If you didn't pay the correct fare at the time no-one is going to give you a discount for holding a Railcard.

However, for the other 20% of journeys, they were typical journeys where I had a valid ticket (not my regular commute, just visiting friends for example). GTR is assuming these were fraudulent too and is demanding the full undiscounted price

If you can show that these were journeys where you held a ticket for the full journey GTR will probably exclude them, but honesty is key here.