Gresley Coach Stock - main line suitability

[Dawg]

I paid a visit to the SVR today and had a leisurely trip behind Bulleid rebuilt West Country 34027 Taw Valley which was pulling a beautiful set of Gresley LNER coaches -

Anyhow, pardon my ignorance, but is it feasible that these type of coaches could ever run on the mainline? Would be nice to see Tornado or an A4 hauling a rake of them again...

 

[sprinterguy]

There's a small precedent in the form of the Great Northern Railway saloon used in the Queen of Scots carriage rake, but I think that the railway authorities would baulk at registering a rake of wooden bodied carriages for use on the main line these days.

There are a number of Pullman carriages of a similar (or greater) antiquity than the SVRs' LNER teak set in use on the main line, most notably with the VSOE, but I think these are all steel bodied.

 

[theblackwatch]

There's a small precedent in the form of the Great Northern Railway saloon used in the Queen of Scots carriage rake, but I think that the railway authorities would baulk at registering a rake of wooden bodied carriages for use on the main line these days.

It's actually likely to happen - but not on a nationwide scale. The LNER Coach Association and NYMR are planning to certify some coaches for use between Whitby and Battersby, and it's been announced in the past few days that the ORR has granted a derogation. More details are at http://www.lnerca.org/

 

[alexl92]

As I've mentioned before on these pages, The P2SLC bought a gresley coach a while back and some took that to suggest it would become no. 2007's support coach but I can't see it happening. Would love to see the P2 or Bittern hauling teaks though.

 

[sprinterguy]

It's actually likely to happen - but not on a nationwide scale. The LNER Coach Association and NYMR are planning to certify some coaches for use between Whitby and Battersby, and it's been announced in the past few days that the ORR has granted a derogation. More details are at http://www.lnerca.org/

Well I never: The NYMRs' operation to Whitby did cross my mind when responding to this post, but I didn't realise that plans to operate an LNER teak rake over their section of NR metals was in the offing at all, let alone so far progressed!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Well I never: The NYMRs' operation to Whitby did cross my mind when responding to this post, but I didn't realise that plans to operate an LNER teak rake over their section of NR metals was in the offing at all, let alone so far progressed!

It would be wonderful to see these teak sets in greater use. The past few times I have visited the NYMR, there were only 3 in use that I could see, I am sure they have more than that? I enjoyed travelling in them though, I have also traveled in the SVR set too.

 

[theageofthetra]

For many years you could travel in a set of teak coaches, on a main line behind 'Gresley' locomotives. As long as 15" suffices.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

There was a set of wooden bodiesd Great Western coaches based at the Didcot railway centre that operated main line steam tours until the mid-1970s. And some of the VSOE coaches operating today are 1930s-1950s vintage, though I believe these are all-steel construction.

 

[sprinterguy]

It would be wonderful to see these teak sets in greater use. The past few times I have visited the NYMR, there were only 3 in use that I could see, I am sure they have more than that? I enjoyed travelling in them though, I have also traveled in the SVR set too.

Reading that LNER Coach Association newsletter, it appears that there are more:

The carriages involved are TTO 23956, TTO 56856, RB 641, BTO 43567, BTK 3669, RF 43654 and GNR saloon 3087. It will be some time before all these carriages are brought up to the standards required and saloon 3087 is likely to be the first to be completed, thus enabling charter bookings to and from Whitby to be accepted...

...There is one omission from the listing, that of Thompson TK 1623. We understand that this is being treated differently from the others in that it is steel-panelled and is thus being regarded as a ‘Mk.1’ vehicle.

Travelling on the SVRs' set, despite my LNER and specifically Gresley leanings, I didn't find the ride to be as comfortable as on the same lines' Stanier and mark 1 stock, so I'm not sure how comfortably they would ride at 75mph. Probably more than made up for by those plush seat cushions however.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Reading that LNER Coach Association newsletter, it appears that there are more:

Travelling on the SVRs' set, despite my LNER and specifically Gresley leanings, I didn't find the ride to be as comfortable as on the same lines' Stanier and mark 1 stock, so I' not sure how comfortably they would ride at 75mph. Probably more than made up for by those plush seat cushions however.

Were not the non powered bogies fitted to BRs first gen 25kv emus of classes 304/305 etc. of similar Gresley pattern? They certainly had a lively ride quality with copious amounts of vertical movement. I was a youngster in the early seventies when the Manchester - Harwich boat train ran with a Gresley or Thompson blue/grey livered buffet car in its formation, sadly never managed to ride it though

 

[sprinterguy]

For many years you could travel in a set of teak coaches, on a main line behind 'Gresley' locomotives. As long as 15" suffices.

Fifteen inches should be more than enough to satisfy anyone's needs, I would think. I presume that you are referring to the Romney, Hythe & Dimchurch? Hadn't realised that (some of) the carriages were teak, if that is (was?) the case.
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Were not the non powered bogies fitted to BRs first gen 25kv emus of classes 304/305 etc. of similar Gresley pattern? They certainly had a lively ride quality with copious amounts of vertical movement. I was a youngster in the early seventies when the Manchester - Harwich boat train ran with a Gresley or Thompson blue/grey livered buffet car in its formation, sadly never managed to ride it though

Having a quick read up, it would appear that Gresley bogies were fitted to classes 302 up to 306, and also classes 308 and 311 (The power bogies were also derived from the Gresley design, but obviously of a much more heavyweight construction and adapted heavily).

 

[E&W Lucas]

It's actually likely to happen - but not on a nationwide scale. The LNER Coach Association and NYMR are planning to certify some coaches for use between Whitby and Battersby, and it's been announced in the past few days that the ORR has granted a derogation. More details are at http://www.lnerca.org/

That's fantastic news. I've not been up there for a couple of weeks, so hadn't heard. The "teaks" are a significant pull for the public, and are a significantly lighter set for the locos to drag about. Great that they will be able to be fully utilised.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Travelling on the SVRs' set, despite my LNER and specifically Gresley leanings, I didn't find the ride to be as comfortable as on the same lines' Stanier and mark 1 stock, so I' not sure how comfortably they would ride at 75mph. Probably more than made up for by those plush seat cushions however.

What on earth?
They are far smoother than a Mk 1!!!

The first coaches to come close are the XP64s!

 

[sprinterguy]

What on earth?
They are far smoother than a Mk 1!!!

The first coaches to come close are the XP64s!

Each to their own then. I prefer the ride of a mark 1 carriage over the same track, though far be it from me to denigrate coaching stock of Gresley design.

 

[DarloRich]

I paid a visit to the SVR today and had a leisurely trip behind Bulleid rebuilt West Country 34027 Taw Valley which was pulling a beautiful set of Gresley LNER coaches -

Anyhow, pardon my ignorance, but is it feasible that these type of coaches could ever run on the mainline? Would be nice to see Tornado or an A4 hauling a rake of them again...

other than the NYMR services to Whitby i cant see any chance whatsoever

 

[tiptoptaff]

Notwithstanding the NYMR, extremely unlikely. As they are wooden bodied they do not meet crash worthiness standards for the modern network. So you will pretty much never see Bore-nado, Bittern, SNG etc hauling a rake of them at 75mph...

 

[E&W Lucas]

Exactly, a derogation from Group Standards for an isolated low speed single line. Like much else of the Whitby operation, eg train crew, OTMR exemption, etc.

 

[Deepgreen]

It's very unlikely, but...who would have thought that steam-hauled wooden slam-door stock would ever run through the London Underground tunnels again...?