Green tunnels

[Bill Stanier]

Why has NR apparently cut back on cutting back - trackside tree growth? Look at many rail locations today compared to years ago and note that our once uncluttered, open railway is now hemmed in by such growth.

It obscures the view from the train, and of course makes the leaf fall problem far worse than it would be if growth was cut back.

 

[The Snap]

I would imagine the 'view from the train vs. money saving options' meeting lasted all of about 30 seconds...

 

[user15681]

Could it not just depend where you are? I've not noticed a change - if anything trees around my routes have been cut back more recently.

 

[asylumxl]

Why has NR apparently cut back on cutting back - trackside tree growth? Look at many rail locations today compared to years ago and note that our once uncluttered, open railway is now hemmed in by such growth.

It obscures the view from the train, and of course makes the leaf fall problem far worse than it would be if growth was cut back.

Actually managing leaf fall issues is done strategically. Network Rail actually has software which allows them to map leaf fall and decide where cutting back is needed most.

That way cutting is not done where it has little benefit.

 

[Mugby]

There is still a substantial amount of cutting back but it's like fighting a losing battle, plus the fact that it usually requires possessions and specialist contractors to be brought in.

If you don't control nature, it will very quickly take over!

 

[fairysdad]

To me, there are two factors that seem to be a part of this, looking historically (at least how I see it with little research into the subject!) at our railways.

Firstly, when the railways were built, any lineside foliage would have been removed for the building and unreplaced (likewise, a new road built now has little growth except new plants for 'carbon-offset' reasons).

The second part of my argument involves the fact that our railways are 'cleaner' than they once were, electric - and to a lesser extent, but relevant in this situation, diesel - traction has less emissions than steam locomotives, where there would also have been a risk of lineside fires (wasn't there a temporary halt on steam excursions on Network Rail because of this a few years back along?) meaning that any greenery would have been kept back naturally by the passing of fireboxes-on-wheels, and (relating to the first part) as time has progressed, the plants that couldn't grow are now able to flourish.

The only flaw in this - particularly the second part - is that heritage lines seem to also have a fair bit of lineside foliage...

 

[HSTEd]

Heritage lines are nowhere near as intensively operated as a mainline railway though so fewer chances for fires.

 

[jimm]

Network Rail has carried out far more vegetation clearance in recent years than Railtrack or BR before it. BR seems to have pretty much given up on systematic efforts to keep down vegetation in the early 1980s, in the face of manpower cuts and spending constraints.

 

[jopsuk]

As I understand it, the tailing off of clearing line sides started not that long after the withdrawl of steam?

 

[John Webb]

As I understand it, the tailing off of clearing line sides started not that long after the withdrawl of steam?

Indeed - no sparks from the steam locos so no need to cut the grass each year and remove shrubs and bushes! I used to work at the Fire Research Station just above the railway embankment south-east of Elstree & Borehamwood station. When I started in 1969 there were a few bushes and not much else - when we left the site in 1994 there were trees, brambles and long grass over much of the embankment. Result was when there was a fire it was much more severe. I recall the works fire brigade having to turn out on a number of occasions in the Summer months to tackle fires on the embankment that were threatening our property - mostly caused by children lighting 'camp fires'. (After putting out one fire, we found some rather overdone jacket potatoes!)

 

[Bill Stanier]

The Vale of Rheidol has recently completed an extensive cut-back of vegetation not because the operate steam locos, but in order to allow their passengers more of the glorious views into the valley from their trains.

It is since the decline of steam on BR that cut-back was abandoned as other have said because the fire risk became less. However, the leaf fall problem has got worse as a result.

 

[Greenback]

The VoR is a tourist railway with a pretty sparse service in comparison to main line railways. they have decided that there is a business case for cutting back vegetation, but that does not mean that there is a business case for it on the National Rail network.

 

[Bill Stanier]

The VoR is a tourist railway with a pretty sparse service in comparison to main line railways. they have decided that there is a business case for cutting back vegetation, but that does not mean that there is a business case for it on the National Rail network.

Hence my second paragraph, Greenback.

 

[Greenback]

Hence my second paragraph, Greenback.

Your second paragraph has nothing to do with business cases, it merely refers tot he fire and safety aspect of steam.

My point is that it isn't only the fire side of things. These days the bottom line is all important. If it would cost more to clear vegetation than it does to deal with the subsequent leaf fall issues, it won't be done, and it's as simple as that. Views from the train won't come into the discussion, unlike on tourist lines.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Could it not just depend where you are? I've not noticed a change - if anything trees around my routes have been cut back more recently.

Yep, same opinion here.

 

[steamybrian]

Here in the South East Network Rail have carried out extensive lineside vegetation/tree clearance although priority has been given to the lines on gradients were falling leaves would affect wheel adhesion. Orpington-Knockholt (Chelsfield bank), South Croydon- Oxted-Uckfield line, Tonbridge- Hastings are lines where I have seen dramatic improvement.
The flip side is that cutting back/removing line side vegetation will kill the roots which bind the ground together which could lead to embankment slips.

 

[Greenback]

Here in the South East Network Rail have carried out extensive lineside vegetation/tree clearance although priority has been given to the lines on gradients were falling leaves would affect wheel adhesion. Orpington-Knockholt (Chelsfield bank), South Croydon- Oxted-Uckfield line, Tonbridge- Hastings are lines where I have seen dramatic improvement.
The flip side is that cutting back/removing line side vegetation will kill the roots which bind the ground together which could lead to embankment slips.

Quite. It all means that the business case is not quite as clear cut as it may seem! It makes sense to prioritise sections of route that cause more problems than others, and this can probably be financially justified. Unlike other sections!

 

[Emyr]

We need a rail-mounted version of the hedge cutters they mount onto tractors, but with an added conveyorbelt to catch the debris so the ballast doesn't become a compost heap.

 

[O L Leigh]

It is since the decline of steam on BR that cut-back was abandoned as other have said because the fire risk became less. However, the leaf fall problem has got worse as a result.

Yes, and that is indeed the situation that we all found ourselves in about 15-20 years ago. However, you are talking about an historic problem not a modern one.

Lineside vegetation clearance has actually increased over the last decade not decreased. The fact that it isn't the same slash and burn policy from the days of steam that saw the railway network almost completely denuded of vegetation has not been continued does not mean that work to control vegetation is being neglected.

As has already been said, the work is now being targeted to deal with those areas most at risk. I've seen many areas where stands of trees have either been dramatically thinned or removed altogether. However, the illusion of a lush landscape persists primarily because of the trees belonging to our neighbours. Just as with your own garden, you may only work up to the boundary fence and cannot go next door to chop down his trees.

Besides, the NR network is not there as a tourist attraction. Passenger enjoyment of the views is not something that enters into the equation.

O L Leigh

 

[Ploughman]

We need a rail-mounted version of the hedge cutters they mount onto tractors, but with an added conveyorbelt to catch the debris so the ballast doesn't become a compost heap.

Road Rail flail equipment has been in use for years.
More recently off track Brash Bashers have been introduced which work trackside cutting and chipping the bushes.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

IMO not keeping line side growth under control is saving an expensive mistake for the future. Large trees will eventually need expensive work to delimb or take them down, costing hundreds per tree ++
Structures embankments drains can be affected. A tree in dry weather can drink a hundred gallons a day causing heave & subsidence.
As said today there is a lot of specialist machinery available. Circular saws that can extend from a tractor 40+ feet. Also flails, brush cutters etc.
You can't beat a good old bonfire lol!

 

[D6975]

The Bristol area has been pruned back in recent years, in some places quite drastically.

 

[John Webb]

Several years ago trees and other shrubs in the cuttings north of St Albans City station on the Midland main line were heavily cut back because of wheel-slip problems - loud protests from the neighbours because of the removal of all that lovely vegetation. I wonder how many of them were commuters who previously complained about delays to trains caused by leaves on the line?

 

[LewFinnis]

Given the number of trees on the line in SW London today, they need to do a bit more serious clearing there!

 

[Railsigns]

Besides, the NR network is not there as a tourist attraction. Passenger enjoyment of the views is not something that enters into the equation.

Sometimes it does. See here, for example:

http://fowhl.org.uk/westhighlandline/index.php/news?start=15

 

[vicbury]

They've cut back a lot of vegetation between Westbury and Romsey, particularly around Salisbury. I presumed it was because of the amount of trees falling on this line. However in various areas all vegetation has been completely removed and I do wonder if the lack of plant roots could lead to landslips in the future.