Green Line 797

[Mutant Lemming]

The once extensive Green Line network is to be whittled down further with the imminent withdrawal of the 797 at the end of February. I did think this service was relatively well patronised especially between South Hatfield and London although the fares were a bit expensive. Bus and coach services from the Home Counties in to London will soon become non existent.

 

[jon0844]

I am not sure how well it was/is used. Seen it plenty of times but never used it, yet thought 'useful to know it exists'. That thinking doesn't keep something going though.

There's a Facebook page to try and save it and there doesn't seem to be much traction so I doubt it will be saved, unless more people start to use it and keep using it.

I think keeping to time due to traffic is another issue.

 

[Robertj21a]

The once extensive Green Line network is to be whittled down further with the imminent withdrawal of the 797 at the end of February. I did think this service was relatively well patronised especially between South Hatfield and London although the fares were a bit expensive. Bus and coach services from the Home Counties in to London will soon become non existent.

Isn't it the volume of concessionary pass holders who make it appear well patronised ?

 

[Busaholic]

Isn't it the volume of concessionary pass holders who make it appear well patronised ?

I was very surprised to read that concessionary passes were available on this service. They wouldn't be useable in the morning peak, though, and it's the peak journeys that would make the route viable or not. Traffic congestion will almost certainly have been a deciding factor too: having stabilised for a few years in and around the Congestion Charge area it has increased noticeably since the Kensington area was removed from its purlieu, while in outer London it is causing timekeeping problems on many bus routes leading to increased running times and, in some cases, increasing resources (i.e. buses) to maintain headways.

 

[spuddie]

I amazed to hear this, although not used it for several years I always thought it was busy and highly profitable in the peak periods, certainly was during Sovereign's days when one morning service was duplicated with a second coach and a Yorkshire Coastliner double decker was trialled for a few weeks due to the loading from Hatfield to London.

I hope it does survive, would be a sad loss.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

At a rough guess will it now take 4 buses to cover the journey -

73 Victoria to Oxford Street around 12 mins
113 Oxford Street to Apex Corner around 1 hour
614 Apex Corner to Hatfield Galleria 35 minutes
300/301 Hatfield Galleria to Stevenage 1hour 10 minutes

near enough 3 hours to make the journey by bus from March 1st.


https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/..._adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-903&va=charlie+hebdo

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, you don't want to be doing that. And the 614 no longer accepts any TfL tickets does it (even in London), so I imagine the fare isn't cheap (I paid £3.20 to go from Hatfield to St Albans today). Likewise, Hatfield to Stevenage will probably be the best part of £4 or so.

I know you can get a rover ticket that covers all of Hertfordshire, but it's still going to be expensive even if you could stand the time. And what's more, I wouldn't trust the 614 to run to time so that could stitch you up if you had to wait for the next service because the one you wanted left early.

 

[Deerfold]

At a rough guess will it now take 4 buses to cover the journey -

73 Victoria to Oxford Street around 12 mins
113 Oxford Street to Apex Corner around 1 hour
614 Apex Corner to Hatfield Galleria 35 minutes
300/301 Hatfield Galleria to Stevenage 1hour 10 minutes

near enough 3 hours to make the journey by bus from March 1st.


https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/..._adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-903&va=charlie+hebdo

And even longer for the journeys it used to do - all the way out to Royston via Hitchin (then just from Hitchin).

I lived on its route (in Hitchin) for 3 years whilst my office was near its terminus. However with only one evening trip all the way starting at Victoria at 1610 it was next to useless and I only caught it once each way on a tube strike day.

It never seemed to be well promoted - I've no idea how you were supposed to find out prices - and there are now only two convoluted journeys round the Stevenage Estates which have frequent connections to the train service. They've also removed the late service so the last bus back is now 2045.

The services which still go round the estates seem to arrive in London very early and leave very late for anyone doing a standard length day, whilst not being early/late enough for those on shift work or wanting an after-work drink or meal. I would have thought the 0855 arrival at Victoria and 1730 departure would be ideal for many workers along the route but these do not extend to where people live, which is the most likely thing likely to appeal to people commutting on the route.

 

[Aictos]

I know you can get a rover ticket that covers all of Hertfordshire, but it's still going to be expensive even if you could stand the time. And what's more, I wouldn't trust the 614 to run to time so that could stitch you up if you had to wait for the next service because the one you wanted left early.

Rover? what Rover?

 

[Deerfold]

Rover? what Rover?

Intalink Explorer.

Valid on most bus services in Hertfordshire and Arriva further afield.

http://www.intalink.org.uk/tickets/explorer/

 

[spuddie]

It sounds to me like Arriva have made a right hash of this route since they've taken over to the point of turning a popular and sucessful route in Sovereign days into one so poor it's being withdrawn. Graduallt cutting the useful local runs around Stevenage at useful times and anything north of Stevenage.

Shame it's going, if I had the money to buy a few decent coaches I'm sure something successful could be done with the route as an alternative to the train - might take longer but guaranteed seat with wifi so you can work on the way etc and at sensible journey times for normal day workers.

 

[jon0844]

As I see it, the big problem is that if I was to use it to go into London (and for a while, we had an office near Baker Street so it was almost door to door) then I'd need the flexibility to know I could come home at more or less any time I wanted.

But to be profitable, I'd imagine the best way would be to run a few buses in the peaks each way, and that's about it. But then I wouldn't use it as I'd probably not be able to get home, or would miss the morning bus.

Maybe in the day, a smaller bus could be used (akin to an Optare Solo) but kitted out with hopefully a bit more comfort, but then you have to maintain that etc.

Does anyone know how much a return actually cost from Stevenage to London, so it could be compared with a ticket on the train? And was there a discount off-peak?

 

[Deerfold]

Does anyone know how much a return actually cost from Stevenage to London, so it could be compared with a ticket on the train? And was there a discount off-peak?

And there's the publicity problem in a nutshall.

Contrast and compare with First's 701/2:

http://www.rainbowfares.com/tickets/dayfares.php

A bit garish but all the fares you'd need are there.

 

[jon0844]

I knew about the bus even before I moved here, and have lived here for 11 years now - but I've never known how much it costs!

I did check the timetable once and was actually quite impressed. Even said to my wife that we should perhaps use it one day, but we never did.

Going by train is easy, and perhaps the service would have done better if it wasn't so easy to go by train from most of the key calling points. Given we're quite fortunate to have a pretty reliable and fast service to London, I am not sure the bus stood much of a chance compared to connecting more rural and disconnected areas.

 

[Busaholic]

No wonder Buses magazine has a column entitled Publicity Matters: the latter word can be taken two ways of course. The old argument that 'if we printed the fares on a leaflet it would soon go out-of-date' don't wash, unless a company is intent on pricing themselves out of the market. DB don't appear to be having a very positive influence on the bus side of the business yet.

 

[Robertj21a]

And there's the publicity problem in a nutshall.

Contrast and compare with First's 701/2:

http://www.rainbowfares.com/tickets/dayfares.php

A bit garish but all the fares you'd need are there.

Aren't Rainbow fares about to finish ?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I am surprised the shopping links potential was never fully recognised with it passing near Brent Cross and serving The Galleria. Getting from London to The Galleria is now not so easy - don't even think it was mentioned on any of the route's publicity.

 

[Deerfold]

Aren't Rainbow fares about to finish ?

The new timetables from 17th Jan still have the notes for the coloured fares:

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/ber.../701/702&routeid=2559981&operator=1&source=sp

 

[Abpj17]

Why would anyone travel to the Galleria from London?

 

[Robertj21a]

The new timetables from 17th Jan still have the notes for the coloured fares:

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/ber.../701/702&routeid=2559981&operator=1&source=sp

Not sure that there aren't some (subtle ?) changes though.

 

[AM9]

At a rough guess will it now take 4 buses to cover the journey -

73 Victoria to Oxford Street around 12 mins
113 Oxford Street to Apex Corner around 1 hour
614 Apex Corner to Hatfield Galleria 35 minutes
300/301 Hatfield Galleria to Stevenage 1hour 10 minutes

near enough 3 hours to make the journey by bus from March 1st.


https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/..._adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-903&va=charlie+hebdo

How about 757 from Victoria to Bricket Wood (50 mins) and then 724 to the Galleria (30 mins). Both subject to traffic of course.
The 757s don't stop at Bricket Wood during the peak hours but it would be fine for shopping at the Galleria, (whch incidentally is popular because it is an outlet centre near London).

 

[Busaholic]

How about 757 from Victoria to Bricket Wood (50 mins) and then 724 to the Galleria (30 mins). Both subject to traffic of course.
The 757s don't stop at Bricket Wood during the peak hours but it would be fine for shopping at the Galleria, (whch incidentally is popular because it is an outlet centre near London).

Think it might just be slightly easier by train, especially with all those outfits stuffed into carrier bags, reluctant though I am to make such a suggestion.

 

[Deerfold]

Not sure that there aren't some (subtle ?) changes though.

Probably. I was only saying they didn't appear to be removing Rainbow fares.

 

[Martin1988]

Last July I did a return trip on this service between London and Stevenage. On the outward journey towards Stevenage(at about 10AM on a sunday morning) the service was reasonably well loaded and when we reached Stevenage, a good crowd were waiting to travel to London.

However on the return journey a couple of hours later, only one other passenger boarded with me at Stevenage and a few others boarded in Hatfield. All in all, there can't have been more than 10 passengers on that journey

I did rather approve of the van-hool coaches that Arriva used on the service.

 

[Tetchytyke]

All tickets for the Arriva GreenLine coaches can be bought online, but they don't make the link easy to find (buried in "how to buy your ticket").

https://tickets.arrivabus.co.uk/greenline/

The 797 is £70 a week from Stevenage which compares favourably with £87.90 for a Stevenage- London Terminals season. But from Hatfield the bus is £62 a week yet a London Terminals season is only £64, so obviously people will take the train.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks. I think even at just £17.90 cheaper from Stevenage, most people would opt for the train.

Even before you have the potential traffic approaching London, the extra drive from Stevenage to Hatfield will also have the potential for many issues. Whereas the train will be nearly at London by then!

And if that £87.90 weekly is any permitted and usable on East Coast, then it's even more of a no-brainer.

Of course, the fact it goes via some parts of London that people might ultimately need to get to, will create a certain market. But if you're just seeking to get into London and jump on the tube or another train later on, the bus really isn't that appealing unless it's significantly cheaper.

 

[A0]

At a rough guess will it now take 4 buses to cover the journey -

73 Victoria to Oxford Street around 12 mins
113 Oxford Street to Apex Corner around 1 hour
614 Apex Corner to Hatfield Galleria 35 minutes
300/301 Hatfield Galleria to Stevenage 1hour 10 minutes

near enough 3 hours to make the journey by bus from March 1st.


https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/..._adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-903&va=charlie+hebdo

You can take that down to 2.5 hours if you used Uno's 635 between Hatfield and Stevenage, which like the 797 uses the A1, rather than going via WGC and Knebworth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks. I think even at just £17.90 cheaper from Stevenage, most people would opt for the train.

Even before you have the potential traffic approaching London, the extra drive from Stevenage to Hatfield will also have the potential for many issues. Whereas the train will be nearly at London by then!

And if that £87.90 weekly is any permitted and usable on East Coast, then it's even more of a no-brainer.

Of course, the fact it goes via some parts of London that people might ultimately need to get to, will create a certain market. But if you're just seeking to get into London and jump on the tube or another train later on, the bus really isn't that appealing unless it's significantly cheaper.

The fact the bus isn't significantly cheaper probably goes a long way to explaining it's lack of use. When you then add in the frequency of the trains (4 tph from Hatfield at least 6 tph from Stevenage), better connectivity onto the Underground, more than 1 London terminal and the 797 really doesn't stand a chance. I suspect the final nail in the coffin has been the free bus pass - as that will have done nothing for fare-box revenue.

 

[Hadders]

There's just no way this bus can compete.

Stevenage-London Terminals at weekly £87.90 is Any Permitted and is as quick as 20 minutes (generally 25 minutes).

The bus is timetabled for 20 minutes between Stevenage and Hatfield!

If the bus is ever going to have a chance it needs to be far far cheaper than it is.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, and even if you worked somewhere along the bus route (not sure of the exact route, but say Baker Street or Marble Arch) I expect it will still be quicker to go via train and then tube.

 

[AM9]

.... I suspect the final nail in the coffin has been the free bus pass - as that will have done nothing for fare-box revenue.

The bus pass would only adversely affect the fare-box revenue if the number of ENCTS holders on board restricted the number of full-fare paying passengers carried. That wouldn't occur in the morning peak as the Herts passes are only valid from 09:30 on Greenlines. I have only been on it once when there were severe problems in Finchley Road, but are paying passengers normally turned away in the evening peak if the twirlies get on first?