Green gauge 21 report Revisiting High Speed North

[MidlandMainlie]

Greengauge 21 have published a new report Rivisiting High Speed North

Revisiting High Speed North – Greengauge 21

www.greengauge21.net

The main summary proposes

• Electrification of Manchester-Liverpool has already taken place. But none of the long-term upgrade plans address the problem of congested city centre rail networks. This has to be tackled now, the report’s authors say, if the benefits of HS2 and NPR are to be fully realised.
• A Piccadilly Super Hub is proposed, meeting the strong desire of Manchester authorities for an east-west ‘through’ HS2 station underground at Manchester Piccadilly. This would involve a new tunnel from Ordsall into Piccadilly from the west: infrastructure that could be used by fast trains from Chester and North Wales, Liverpool, Blackpool, Barrow and Glasgow, with services emerging eastwards and across the Pennines to Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield, Hull, York and Newcastle. This would transform Piccadilly into the one of the best connected transport hubs in the entire country. There is no need, say the report’s authors, to wait for the arrival of HS2 and NPR to make a start with the Super Hub.
• With all long distance services removed from the problem Castlefield corridor, Manchester is presented with a ready-made Picc-Vic link that is complete with three intermediate city centre stations. This would use the recently built Ordsall viaduct and means that a Thameslink-style main line metro can link together places such as Rochdale and Burnley with a reliable commuter rail service at last.

Thoughts?

 

[Purple Orange]

The final point about already made Picc-Vic link is the prize to go for.

Aside from that, it can be delivered with reversing operations at Piccadilly with no need for an underground station.

 

[si404]

Direct link to the report: http://www.greengauge21.net/wp-content/uploads/REVISITING-HIGH-SPEED-NORTH-.pdf

"infrastructure that could be used by fast trains from Chester and North Wales, Liverpool, Blackpool, Barrow and Glasgow, with services emerging eastwards and across the Pennines to Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield, Hull, York and Newcastle." - note the lack of everyone's favourite destination: Manchester Airport!

Victoria is going to be a ghost town under this plan - goodbye Bradford - Liverpool/Chester, farewell Southport and Blackburn services - everything is going to Piccadilly!

Swapsies would be easier than a tunnel - the main reason why the regional services stop at Piccadilly is as they are going to the Airport. Liverpool - Yorkshire services use Victoria, ditto Chester - Bradford. Instead of pairing up local services running W/NW - Victoria - E/NE you have them go W/NW - Airport and E/NE - Airport. And instead of regional services running W/NW - Airport and E/NE - Airport, have them run W/NW - Victoria - E/NE.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

This is why I always thought the Castlefield Corridor wasn't that useful for Manchester-as well as being away from the centre of Manchester itself. A tunnel from the west side of Victoria to the west side of Piccadilly might be better.

I floated the idea of HS2 approaching Manchester from the East. So TP trains can continue straight underneath Piccadilly and serve the airport on the way to Liverpool. London bound HS2 trains, I suggested tounge in cheek, could termiante at a reopened Manchester Central. That's another problem-the fact is an eastward approach would solve the TP link issue, but deny a HS link from Manchester to Scotland. Although any HS train from Birmingham to Scotland running via Manchester could just use the Castlefield corridor I suppose.

 

[Purple Orange]

The Castlefield corridor couldn’t be more in the centre of it tried, but it needs to be solely for the use of metro services.

Manchester Central will never be converted back to a railway station. It is a successful conference centre and well now, it’s a hospital for the time being.

Personally I think the current HS2 plans will work with NPR being able to access both the current train shed and the HS2 platforms, reversing back out towards Stalybridge and Huddersfield. The Scotland trains should loop around Manchester via the airport.

 

[edwin_m]

Presumably a response to the National Infrastructure Commission call for evidence. Rather surprisingly Greengauge home page still highlights a report from 2018.

This is why I always thought the Castlefield Corridor wasn't that useful for Manchester-as well as being away from the centre of Manchester itself. A tunnel from the west side of Victoria to the west side of Piccadilly might be better.

I floated the idea of HS2 approaching Manchester from the East. So TP trains can continue straight underneath Piccadilly and serve the airport on the way to Liverpool. London bound HS2 trains, I suggested tounge in cheek, could termiante at a reopened Manchester Central. That's another problem-the fact is an eastward approach would solve the TP link issue, but deny a HS link from Manchester to Scotland. Although any HS train from Birmingham to Scotland running via Manchester could just use the Castlefield corridor I suppose.

HS2 as currently planned does enter Piccadilly from the east. The city of Manchester proposal is to enter from the west instead so trains from Liverpool can continue towards Leeds without reversing.

However they should be careful what they wish for. There's a risk that unpicking and revising all the designs around Manchester (not just Piccadilly, the route of the tunnel too) will delay the arrival of high speed rail of any sort by several years, perpetuating the difficult temporary situation where 3TPH of London trains have to find their way via the double track between Crewe and Stockport.