Greater Manchester potential projects (Rail & Road)

[Nym]

Leigh Railway Station

Here

The line would run from Leigh to Tyldsey and then on to Walkden where it would connect with a new trackbed onto the Wigan - Atherton - Walkden - Victoria line, none of this nonsense of a railway station 2 miles south of Leigh where it would be easyer and more practical to have a parkway railway station where the Atherliegh route used to meet the Chat Moss route with a large car park, between Newton and Paitcroft

New station in Leigh T/C to have 2tph into Manchester Victoria, falling to 1tph evenings & sundays.

Salford Crescent

I know theres a lot of discussion as to what to do here, I think the station should be re-located further north with 6 platforms, long enough for 8 or 9 x 23m. In conjunction with the Leigh line and some other improvments, it would be nessesarry.

Salford Central

Bring Platforms 3 and 4 back into use and 4 track all the way from Victoria to Salford Crescent (yes there is still space), with services running to Bolton tending to use 1/2 and Walkden & Eccles 3/4, not building new platforms but laying track to have a junction to the West of the station to connect to the Chat Moss line, or, have 6 platforms with two new ones for the chat moss route.

Manchester Victoria

Nothing much can be done here with the through platforms, perhaps wideing the space between platforms and adding a centre track to allow the platforms to be doubled up.

Some more terminating platforms from the east would be nice through, so that the through platforms only need to be used from the west, with all of these extened through Victoria to Rochdale, Stalybridge or Ashburys. With linespeed increases east of Victoria some services could be diverted into Victoria feeing space up at Piccadilly.

Ashburys to Guide Bridge

4 Track, end of....

Slade Lane Jcn to Piccadilly

6 Track possibly with a flying junction at Slade Lane

Piccadilly throught

8/10 track.
Re-opening of Mayfeild Goods to passengers
Flyover from East Manchester lines into Mayfeild.
Two more new through platforms.
More platforms on the east of the station, in what is currently the car park.
This would add another 9 to 11 platforms, giving plenty of platforms space for the increased throught capacity.

Oxford Road

Difficult due to the number of buildings around it, but I'd say, restore platform 6 and change the layout of the junctions to make less conflicts, it should be possible to extend platforms 1 and 4 to 8 car length, and 2/3 to 6 car length, but would mean a lot of construction, looks like we're stuck with 6 car platforms as a maximum here, without being insane and 4 tracking the whole way from Castlefeild Jcn to Piccadilly, this wouldn't be nessesarry is the next silly idea is done and Victoria is done properly.

Altringham & Manchetser Central

Right...

The line to Altrigham should NOT be light rail, it can be counted in many ways as a missing link in the Network Rail inferstructure. When the metrolink extentions are completed it would mean running a rediculous numer of trams per hour through Deansgate-Castlefeild.

Before somone starts to say this is a stupid idea, read the whole thing...

Return the Altham line to heavy rail and energise the overhead wires to 25kV to keep place with current standards. Theres then two options for the junctioning.

1: Move the Metrolink away from Trafford Bar, junction it after Panoma docks and run on a bridge over Bridgewater way and through a couple of the car parks to meet with the 'Didsbury & Airport' line, passing over the Altham line, possibly retaining some platforms near Trafford Bar dependant on the route taken.

This would see 6 platforms at Cornbrook, two on the Metrolink lines, two on the 'Central' Lines, and two on the CLC lines. Crossover junctions allowing CLC services to use central and Altham services to use Ox Road (if desired)

This would mean raising the Metrolink lines up on a viaduct to clear the CLC & Central heavy lines. (On a side note I'd like to see space left for 2 track heavy all the way from Trafford Bar to Hazel Grove, nice diversionary route and potential passenger service, calling at Cornbrook, East Didsbury (Metrolink Interchange), Cheadle Heath, Hazel Grove South, and continuing possibly to Sheffeild or Buxton (take smaller services off the Stockport Viaduct) )

2: Dependant on Trafford Bar Tunnel (I don't know the width, sorry...)
Run the metrolink and heavy rail through this tunnel with grade seperated junctions at Cornbrook.

Into Manchester Central (money or CPO will buy it back, stop saying that an exibition centre is more important!)
The route is ovious over the old viaduct into Central, this would potentially be accepting 4tph stoppers, 4tph express (2 continuing to Chester, 2 continuing to Crewe via Sandbach), 2tph Chinley / Hazel Grove / Buxton. 2tph CLC Stopper, sounds like enough to justify 6 platforms to me, not to mention the possiblity of diverting intercity services (from Crewe / London etc) into Central to release pressure on Piccadilly, in conjunction with Victoria improvments, to allow HS2 to get into the Piccadilly Campus

and on that topic, getting tired to typing now, so this will be the last even through the list is far from exhaustive...

HS2 at Manchester

The line should come into Piccadilly, end of, there isn't anywhere else it could go, services to the North wouldn't run 'via Manchester' but 'via Manchester South Parkway, that would have a double delta junction so that services can run either...

Manchester Picc - South (Fast) (Possibly)
Manchester Picc - South (Via Parkway)
North - South (Via Parkway)
Manchester Picc - North (Via Parkway)

HS2 would then re-join the WCML south of Wigan near the Chat Moss Junction, with a conflict free flying junction space provided to continue north to the east of Wigan, and a connection to the Chat Moss for Liverpool L St.

I think I did a diagram before...

OK, I'll finish ranting now...

 

[Invincibles]

Interesting, but quite a lot of money would need to be spent.

Some other thoughts I had.

Salford Central

Increase to 4 platforms on the line in from Crescent, this would provide the opportunity to terminate trains at Salford Central and mean that some diagrams would originate from Central / have trains from victoria attached to them to go forwards.

Ideally this would mean completely rearranging the format to have islands so one was "Westbound" and one "Eastbound". But either way a central island for "Westbound" would be sensible.

This would be good to ensure that users of this station could be certain of a seat in the peaks and so it would allow many to choose Salford Central over Victoria as a place to board taking pressure off there.

Of course these extra platforms would not be bays meaning that at other times they could be used as normal through platforms.

Manchester Victoria

West facing bays to terminate Chat Moss trains. Ideally these would be the start point for a fast Liverpool service, rather like the Queen Street to Edinburgh trains, so passengers would know the best station in Manchester for trains to Liverpool. Also avoids conflicting movements.

Electrics from Preston/Blackpool to run through (destination depends on other parts)

This should move a large number of trains out of Piccadilly 13/14.

Piccadilly Throat

Reinstatement of the curve that allows trains from Victoria into platforms 1-4
Flying junction to take trains from Victoria over the east Manchester line and the main line to land on the West part of Longsight depot. This line to carry Manchester Airport to Liverpool and Blackpool trains.

Piccadilly

Opening of Mayfield for Manchester Airport Express, Check-In etc to be located in the building such that the trains are the obvious choice for people flying. This will be the terminus for 8 car international trains that will use HS2 eventually.

Additional platforms on the East side. These will have to be staggered up a bit but will handle terminators from Victoria.

Guide Bridge 4 track

Well this one is pretty obvious isn't it

Reddish curve

Aim to build a curve from the Stockport to Guide Bridge line down onto the Belle Vue line, this will handle all of the Hazel Grove trains and allow them to potentially run to Victoria. This will work if...

Flyover at Ashburys

Use the spare land alongside the Belle Vue line to take two tracks up over the Guide Bridge route and back down on the other side to head to Victoria. This would not have an Ashburys station (or could but it would be expensive) but would allow a large number of trains to be routed to Victoria.

So these proposals involve a few flying junctions but nothing too radical. Only major changes being the use of Mayfield as an international station and the movement of some services to Victoria using the various flying junctions at Longsight.

Transpennine to Liverpool

Run via Victoria and the Chat Moss to avoid the crossing of the Piccadilly throat.

 

[tbtc]

This should move a large number of trains out of Piccadilly 13/14

I agree, in theory, but which and how?

Unfortunately 13/14 are essential *if* we want to maintain the link to/from Manchester Airport for Liverpool/ Wigan/ Southport/ Bolton/ Preston/ WCML. I'm not saying they all need an hourly (or better) service to the Airport, but it'd be politically awkward.

The Scarborough - Liverpool looks like an easy one to take away from 13/14, but then you'd probably only do this *if* you were diverting *all* Huddersfield services to Victoria, which would then mean needing to divert the Middlesbrough/Newcastle services back via 13/14 to get to the Airport.

I think the best way to do it would be to insist on a minimum train length through 13/14, and encourage six coach trains (splitting at Bolton/Preston etc), dunno...

 

[Invincibles]

I agree, in theory, but which and how?

Unfortunately 13/14 are essential *if* we want to maintain the link to/from Manchester Airport for Liverpool/ Wigan/ Southport/ Bolton/ Preston/ WCML. I'm not saying they all need an hourly (or better) service to the Airport, but it'd be politically awkward.

Ideally it needs my flying junction taking trains over the mainline and the transpennine depot at Ardwick and back down onto the airport lines. If that was done then there would be some real differences made to 13/14 while still maintianing connections to the airport

The Scarborough - Liverpool looks like an easy one to take away from 13/14, but then you'd probably only do this *if* you were diverting *all* Huddersfield services to Victoria, which would then mean needing to divert the Middlesbrough/Newcastle services back via 13/14 to get to the Airport.

I think the best way to do it would be to insist on a minimum train length through 13/14, and encourage six coach trains (splitting at Bolton/Preston etc), dunno...

It would be good if there was a standard unit used on Blackpool and Wigan trains then these could split at Bolton and be 4/6 car. This could work with the current timetable such that:

Manchester Airport - Bolton - Blackpool/Southport was a pair of 156s (this would be the stopping diagram)

Manchester Victoria - Bolton - Blackpool was a fast train

Manchester Aiport - Bolton - Preston - Scotland/Blackpool splits at Preston

No trains direct from Hazel Grove to Preston via Oxford Road.

Follow all of my chord and flyover suggestions and a lot more journeys become possible.

The one I would really like to see is the ability to split at Salford Central to allow capacity from there to Bolton in the peaks. Having tried to do that journey a few times I know how helpful that could be.

 

[Tufty]

Platforms 2/3 at MCO are already 6 car platforms. However, a 6 car on 3 would block 4 from a 6 car using all the platform, hence signal MP418 protecting that.

With only two feeder tracks going in and out of the station, after leaving the platforms. I can't see where any improvements to junctions could occur. The whole station is already signalled bi-directional with the occasional sight of two trains heading for Picc at the same time!

There also doesn't appear to be any room to extend any platform other than 1

 

[CosherB]

Absolutely agree that Deansgate to Altrincham should be restored to heavy rail 25Kv. It is a missing link in the radial lines out from the city.

 

[Nym]

Absolutely agree that Deansgate to Altrincham should be restored to heavy rail 25Kv. It is a missing link in the radial lines out from the city.

Finally, somone agrees with me on this!

And it's not like the metrolink inferstructure couldn't be changed slightly to allow this...

Out of intrest, how much use does Cornbrook interchange get?

 

[WatcherZero]

People getting off there not a lot, its on the edge of a residential district rather than in the centre of one (and it was originally opened as an interchange only with only a fire escape, they added a pedestrian entrance due to popular demand). Actual interchange a huge amount, theres always 20-30 people standing on the platform for every tram (with a 12 min frequency to each destination).

 

[bluenoxid]

Money, money, money, it's so funny in a rich mans world :roll:

Plenty of options and lots of money. My worry is that many don't grasp the cost of this kind of work. I have my doubts about the amount of work proposed but several reasonably quick wins could release capacity.

Ardwick has a lot of issues but I wonder if the restoration of the viaduct round to Man Vic and a new flyover that allows TPE trains to bypass Ardwick Station and access Ashburys on the freight lines. A rehash of the lines to the east of Ashburys should allow Guide Bridge bound services to keep away from the services heading towards Marple, etc.

Electrification of Marple/Rose Hill should release several Pacers on local services. I think it is a really small number of miles to electrify.

The reopened has a benefit of allowing two services (Arriva Trains Manchester - North Wales and Preston to Hazel Grove) to keep away from P13/14. However, I guess that this would depend on the electrification of the route and the composition Preston - Hazel Grove services. In addition, further services can be taken round to Man Picc with the benefits that this brings.

 

[Invincibles]

Why do people always forget that they have built a major dual carriageway across the heavy rail alignment to Altrincham, the metrolink dives down to go under it on a gradient that heavy rail could not manage.

Reinstating the line would cause major disruption to the area and really bring no major benefit. It would mean more trains onto the Oxford Road approach which is full enough already.

I do not see what is wrong with changing at Altrincham for metrolink or Stockport for heavy rail.

Yes it is unfortunate for people on that line, but it is not the busiest line in the world and Metrolink to Altrincham / Chorlton / Airport makes much better use of the line IMO.

 

[tbtc]

It would be good if there was a standard unit used on Blackpool and Wigan trains then these could split at Bolton and be 4/6 car. This could work with the current timetable such that:

Manchester Airport - Bolton - Blackpool/Southport was a pair of 156s (this would be the stopping diagram)

Manchester Victoria - Bolton - Blackpool was a fast train

Manchester Aiport - Bolton - Preston - Scotland/Blackpool splits at Preston

No trains direct from Hazel Grove to Preston via Oxford Road.

Follow all of my chord and flyover suggestions and a lot more journeys become possible.

The one I would really like to see is the ability to split at Salford Central to allow capacity from there to Bolton in the peaks. Having tried to do that journey a few times I know how helpful that could be.

That sounds interesting, I like the idea of combining services in the "outskirts" to provide a longer train through the "core" like that.

The problem I have is that I over-complicate things. A Scottish portion and a Blackpool portion is complicated enough, but I'd then say something like "why not have a Liverpool service which would attach to the Manchester service at Preston, then split at Carstairs to go to Edinburgh/Glasgow alternately..." (that's just me though)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why do people always forget that they have built a major dual carriageway across the heavy rail alignment to Altrincham, the metrolink dives down to go under it on a gradient that heavy rail could not manage.

Reinstating the line would cause major disruption to the area and really bring no major benefit. It would mean more trains onto the Oxford Road approach which is full enough already.

I do not see what is wrong with changing at Altrincham for metrolink or Stockport for heavy rail.

Yes it is unfortunate for people on that line, but it is not the busiest line in the world and Metrolink to Altrincham / Chorlton / Airport makes much better use of the line IMO.

I have no problem with the Altrincham line being a tram. I just have a problem with the short length of Manchester's trams. As things are, the line carries people into the centre of the city, I just wish the trams were longer.

 

[WatcherZero]

57m is hardly short, its the length of four pacer carriages.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I do not see what is wrong with changing at Altrincham for Metrolink or Stockport for heavy rail. Yes it is unfortunate for people on that line, but it is not the busiest line in the world and Metrolink to Altrincham / Chorlton / Airport makes much better use of the line IMO.

Altrincham Interchange is a very good example of transport co-ordination of buses, Metrolink and heavy rail services. Let us not forget that all three methods of transport exist to carry passengers, not just to justify the arguments of one mode of transport being better than another.

This point seems lost to some people when strenously making their "favoured transport" argument in discussions.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

The problem I have is that I over-complicate things. A Scottish portion and a Blackpool portion is complicated enough, but I'd then say something like "why not have a Liverpool service which would attach to the Manchester service at Preston, then split at Carstairs to go to Edinburgh/Glasgow alternately..." (that's just me though)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In BR days, there used to be an 07.45 Liverpool - Edinburgh and an 07.50 Manchester Victoria - Glasgow Central. These trains combined at Preston and split at Carstairs. They were loco hauled, which meant some shunting was required at Preston to get rid of the diesel loco that brought the Liverpool portion in (this had to be on the rear). A similar service operated in the southbound direction.
If this could be done using loco and coaches, then using EMUs should be a piece of cake!

 

[tbtc]

In BR days, there used to be an 07.45 Liverpool - Edinburgh and an 07.50 Manchester Victoria - Glasgow Central. These trains combined at Preston and split at Carstairs. They were loco hauled, which meant some shunting was required at Preston to get rid of the diesel loco that brought the Liverpool portion in (this had to be on the rear). A similar service operated in the southbound direction.
If this could be done using loco and coaches, then using EMUs should be a piece of cake!

Agreed. Coupling up EMUs at Preston and splitting them at Carstairs would take a couple of minutes (compared to the complicated shunting around that there used to be), I'd love to see this. The splitting/joining seems to work on the intensely-run Southern/ South Eastern services (where there's not a lot of margin for error), so I'm all for it on the WCML (especially as it'd allow for both Liverpool and Manchester to have a better service to both Glasgow and Edinburgh - albeit some passengers would need to move from one coach to another over the couple of hours that the units would be coupled).

 

[lancastrian]

Agreed. Coupling up EMUs at Preston and splitting them at Carstairs would take a couple of minutes (compared to the complicated shunting around that there used to be), I'd love to see this. The splitting/joining seems to work on the intensely-run Southern/ South Eastern services (where there's not a lot of margin for error), so I'm all for it on the WCML (especially as it'd allow for both Liverpool and Manchester to have a better service to both Glasgow and Edinburgh - albeit some passengers would need to move from one coach to another over the couple of hours that the units would be coupled).

It would be very easy to do this, when these trains were running in the 1970's and I was train announcing at Bolton, we always announced the need to change coaches at Preston. presuming that people are still able to follow simple instructions, this is really a 'no brainer'.

 

[Nym]

presuming that people are still able to follow simple instructions, this is really a 'no brainer'.

Thats a big presumption nowerdays...

 

[lancastrian]

Thats a big presumption nowerdays...

You may well be right.:roll:

 

[Nym]

"Do not leave baggage unattended anywhere in the airport"

I had 2 or 3 unattended bags per week... and thats only what I personally called in

"The next train on platform 5 is the 10:15 to London Euston"

"Wheres the train to London?"

 

[lancastrian]

I call it 'Sat-Nav' syndrome. The inability to think for ones self. I don't have a sat-nav, I have a brain.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Before somone starts to say this is a stupid idea, read the whole thing...

I see that you managed to fit your "catch phrase" in again....

 

[Nym]

It's one of many catch phrases, unlike most people I actually think and consider what I'm typing, rather than type the first thing that comes into my head.

And don't get me started on sat nav. Some of us know how to drive, and part of that is knowing where you're going.

Either way, the stupidity of the goverment never ceases to amase me somtimes, the same as my inability to spell...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You started this thread with 10 projects and various reports have been issued since that time. Hindsight being a wonderful thing, what would be the ones that you would drop from your original list....and which ones that you now feel even stronger of having a case?

 

[185]

No. 66. Send all the poxy little Metrolink trams to Blackpool then divert them into the sea at Starr Gate.

For Eccles and Ashton, buy some biggun's, three or four sections long.
For Alty and Bury..... buy some real trains.

Rant (sort of) over.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No. 66. Send all the poxy little Metrolink trams to Blackpool then divert them into the sea at Starr Gate.

Rant (sort of) over.

I do not think that this will be possible, as the sea bed in that area will be full of the Class 142 Pacer units that were there already from a suggestion of mine, similar to yours, made a few months ago.

 

[Nym]

For Eccles and Ashton, buy some biggun's, three or four sections long.
For Alty and Bury..... buy some real trains.

Rant (sort of) over.

I think 185's caught my desise that means he hates metrolink running on converted rail lines...

Is this another "Convert Alt'ham and Bury back to heavy, have 3 or 4 more bays at Victoria on the East Side, speak to the ELR about diesel through running, buy some shiney new Desiro City or Electrostars or use heavily refubished 319s on the routes and re-open Central station to serve the CLC, Alt'ham and Mid Cheshire Lines" Rant?

But really, asside from the Garidents under Bridgewater Way in Manchester, theres nothing stopping conversion back to Heavy Rail...

It would also facilitate easy Electrification of the CLC and providing anything upto 6tph over the route, and get rid of the need for the Metrolink 2CC, or with it allow more trams to E Didsbury, Airport & Trafford / Port Salford.

Oh, and the Bridgewater Way problems can be fixed by growing Cornbook Interchange out to the North West.

Thusly
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=208537899835423960920.0004a60dd65a4e7f80f1e

 

[WestCoast]

Personally, I think the notion of re-converting is a bad idea. The most succesful transport networks in the world have trams, heavy rail, metro and buses all in an integrated fashion. If that means converting some heavy rail lines, to boost that, then so be it. It allows trams to come off the lines and go places where trains can't - Oldham Town Centre, Manchester City Centre e.t.c.

Frequency would suffer under heavy rail, that is inevitable. People prefer an every 6 mins tram to an every 30 mins train. Connectivity throughout the whole area would also suffer.

Now the Karlsruhe model might be a good idea for these lines - so you can run heavy rail further and limited stop while the trams are the stoppers (e.g. Mid-Cheshire Line trains on the Alty Line). Using the Tyne and Wear as a case study for this, however try and execute it in a more efficient manner making use of all resources. I don't know how it would work with the TOS signalling, but surely it must be possible in some way?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No. 66. Send all the poxy little Metrolink trams to Blackpool then divert them into the sea at Starr Gate.

For Eccles and Ashton, buy some biggun's, three or four sections long.
For Alty and Bury..... buy some real trains.

Rant (sort of) over.

:rollrrr, I think a fair amount of people prefer "poxy little trams" to "poxy little Pacers" - which is what most people on GM rail have! The trams are fairly modern, well at least the new ones are.

The trams are designed to be doubled up - so you have four 'car' trams. They don't have to be walk through, there is no guard!

 

[tbtc]

But really, asside from the Garidents under Bridgewater Way in Manchester, theres nothing stopping conversion back to Heavy Rail...

So would you have trains running on the streets through central Manchester?

 

[Nym]

Under what I'd have planned there'd be 10tph to Alt'ham 5 all stations and 5 limited stop. Or potentially 8tph if the signalling couldn't cope.


185's idea works for me though, if the new trams where all 4 cars long then it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

The point still remains that the Alty line does see 4 car trams every 6 mins in the AM and PM peak, and the're all still wedged. Going back to heavy rail would mean that anythng upto 8 car trains could work the Alt'ham section of line, and a similar freqency wouldn't be difficult, and limited stop services could easilly be pathed in with a bit of 4 track put back in on route. Theoretically theres nothing stopping 12tph on the route, and 6tph on the CLC.

When the route was trammed initally passenger numbers where in decline and the increased frequency attacted many more passengers. Today, these passengers don't fit, and we're looking at a major expantion of the Metrolink Network through Cornbrook, the metrolink tracks will be at capacity before any additional lines come in and that isn't a good thing.

If the Alt'ham branch where converted back to Heavy rail with 323s running a service (initally in the tram's 12tph timetable), capacity would be instantly doubled.

With some re-casting this could be altered to have some express paths in the service, designed to path 150/156 units on limited or non-stop to Alty. This would be the Mid Cheshire Line taken care of and the route to stockport would be replaced by a shuttle.

A bit more work on the alty route could see sections of 4 track re-built to allow overtaking of slow services by fast services.

Converting this back, adding in the CLC link and a few bits of four track would mean that...

While we're at it there, any objections to a large car park at Glazebrook?
Branch off the CLC to the Trafford Centre?

Branch off the CLC to Culcheth & Interchange / P&R Station on the Chat Moss?
Oh, while we're there, add a curve at Kenyton so freight can avoid traversing Piccadilly, but accessing Trafford Park from the Chat Moss at Earlstown.
If you really have the inclanation it could carry on to Wigan, but thats going to be served from the Chat Moss Anyway, so maybe not needed.

Alt'ham would be able to see 6 or 8 car trains in the peaks, still at 12tph

The Mid Cheshire Line could see anything up to 4tph to Manchester via the Alty route. Some of these may need to be set down only at Alt'ham, but express electrics would also be provided. That would be 2tph to Chester via Northwitch and 2tph to Crewe via Middlewitch.

The CLC route would now only be limited by it'self and could see what it needs for such a tightly packed commuter route, anything up to 6tph between Liverpool Central or Lime Street and Manchester Central.

Other route re-openings would seem less, err, impossible. Such as:
Timperley - Lymm - Thelwall - Warrington (New Low Level if continuing) - Widnes - Liverpool.
Northwitch - Middlewitch - Crewe (As mentioned)
Mouldsworth - Helsby

Not to mention side benifits of providing a realistic alternative station to Piccadilly should there need to be a diversion for Engineering Works. Services from Crewe could run via the Mid Cheshire line and into Central.

I heard dual running mentioned, yes, this is a brilliant idea, and the line it would be implemented on is the 'East Didsbury Line' No stops on the heavy route all the way to E Disbury where the tram line terminates, trains call and then continue to 'Hazel Grove South' and onwards to Buxton or Chinley - Sheffeild / Derby

Since theres no paths on the Stockport Viaduct they have to go some way, although the benifits of that route could be gained by upgrading the routes via Marple or Guide Birdge, then providing additional platforms at Victoria or Piccadilly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So would you have trains running on the streets through central Manchester?

Errr... no... I'd get rid of the stupid exibition centre main hall and park them there, the idea woule be to free up space for more trams on other routes...

This 'new' station would initally be seeing anything up to

5tph from Alt'ham all stations
2tph from Chester via Altham
3tph from Alt'ham limited stop (Altham - Sale - Stretford - Cornbook - Central)
4tph from the CLC all staions

Would also free up space for other trams on the CC route, that is thought to have a limit of about 35 - 40tph

So:

10tph Eccles (Yes this is an improvment for the Eccles Route)
10tph East Didsbury
5tph Media City UK
5tph Airport
5tph Port Salford

Or a mix of the above, without the 10tph to Alty to worry about theres a lot of space freed up.

Eventually I'd be hoping for (out of Central)

6tph Alt'ham all stations
2tph Chester via Alt'ham
2tph Crewe via Alt'ham & Middlewitch
2tph Warrington via Lymm
4tph Liverpool L St CLC All stations
2tph Keynton Interchange CLC

And if dual running to East Didsbury happened with the link to Hazel Grove

2tph to Chinley via East Didsbury
2tph to East Didsbuty Express

There would also possibly be some extra limited stops to Alt'ham in the peaks.

Last edit, honest: Some services would still potentially (pathing permitted) from either the CLC or Alty lines run through Piccadilly and on to somwhere else electrified. One may entertain the notion of Buxton - Piccadilly - OR - Deansgate - Cornbrook - Alty - Chester 2tph for example.

 

[WestCoast]

I can see the merits but at its simplest, why does a capacity boost have to involve putting trains back on the core route? I could see how it would benefit the mid-Cheshire line but not the core line users. They would lose a direct connection to Piccadilly/Victoria/Bury and in future Oldham/Rochdale.

You could surely make the trams larger (i.e. 3 car which could then be doubled). Plus, TOS allows trams to run closer together than conventional signalling.

It's never going to happen anyway, so there's no point arguing about it. Then there is the issue of money.

EDIT: So basically you are proposing a shake-up of all rail in the North West? My preferred option for this would be an "S-Bahn" style system with cross-city links. Don't underestimate cross-city, it is a very valuable link to have.