Greater Anglia Travel Irregularity - I'm a moron!

[nicky100]

Hi all - I'm hoping some of you knowledgeable people can offer me some advice and maybe take the edge off my anxiety.

I've been travelling to London from Chelmsford and I have not been buying the correct tickets. I have been buying a return ticket from Chelmsford to Shenfield (£10.20) instead of a ticket for my full journey Chelmsford to Stratford (£29.70), I use the tube from Stratford to go into central London which I've always paid for.

Yesterday I was caught by an inspector, I was honest and upfront about everything. I've been doing this for about a year and going through my ticket history in the Greater Anglia app there are 91 occasions I have knowingly purchased an incorrect ticket. I could give reasons as to why I've done this but I'm sure no one will be interested, the bottom line is I have deliberately not paid for a full price ticket and now I deservedly have to pay the price.

My question is how severe will that price be? I fully expect to have pay back what I owe and more in fines, my more pressing concern is around a criminal conviction and the impacts this will have on mine and my families life. If I get a criminal conviction I expect I will lose my job and make it difficult for me to be employed in the future, at 47 years old and being the main income earner, I have a family to look after and my extreme concerns and anxiety are how it will impact them.

Does GA push for criminal convictions? If they do and I get convicted will this show up on a DBS check and for how long?

To say I regret my actions and misunderstood the consequences and the severity of not buying a full price ticket is a massive understatement!! This could be life ruining, I've bought a flexi season ticket today in the hope that it will evidence I've learned the errors of my way, will that help me at all?

Thanks for any input and advice

 

[30907]

GA tend to be amenable to a financial settlement with people who co-operate, but you will have gathered it will be expensive. Buying a flexi season may make a slight difference in your favour, but don't pin too much on that.
You will have to wait for their letter to arrive, and come back for further advice.

If you are unable to achieve this and end up in the court system, don't panic just yet. I would check your employer's policy on minor criminal offences (yes, it is minor in the grand scheme of things!). A conviction, even for a single offence under the railway Byelaws,  may show on an Enhanced DBS check, and you should certainly not attempt to conceal that if asked - that could well be gross misconduct.

 

[Titfield]

First of all do not panic. It will all come out in the wash in due time. From what we have seen on this forum the worst (if I can call it that) rarely happens. Events such as these do not ruin lives.

There are a few things you can do before the letter arrives:

(1) Make a complete list (spreadsheet) of all the journeys you have short fared. Then calculate what the fare should have been using the full anytime single fare with no discounts or deductions for any fare already paid. Whilst this may be frightening you will at least then have some idea of the sum of money you will have to find plus an administration fee.
(2) As @30907 has suggested check your contract of employment and staff handbook so you know what their policy is in terms of disclosure or possible consequence.
(3) Are you in a regulated profession? (EG education, healthcare, finance) that may require you to disclose to the regulator. If so check those rules and possible consequences.
(4) Are you a member of a trade union or equivalent? Be prepared to discuss this with them eventually.
(5) You may wish to consult a solicitor but our general advice on these matters is to wait until the position of the Train Operating Company (Greater Anglia) becomes known. There are specialist solicitors who do appear to have been successful in agreeing out of court settlements even in what appear to be high levels of evasion.
(6) If you read many of the threads on this forum you will see that the objective of TOCS is to get the money they are owed plus an admin fee and reassurance that the offending will not recur. Where people engage, are contrite and make restitution out of court settlements are agreed. Unfortunately they still do decide to make examples of some fare evaders and given the scale of your evasion they could decide to do just that. However having said that we have seen examples where despite the offending being considerable an out of court settlement has been achieved.

Once you have done the above I hope you can at least put it out of your mind until the letter arrives.

 

[John R]

The best option is being offered an out of court settlement, which realistically is going to involve some sort of financial restitution for the fare evasion you've discussed.

At the very worst, it could mean paying the full Anytime Single fare for each journey, with no offset for the fare actually paid. It may be less than that, and we've had lots of discussion as to how appropriate it is for there to be no offset for anything paid, but if you use it as the "worst possible out of court outcome" and prepare for that then anything less will be a bonus. There will be an admin cost added too - usually around £150.

If you get offered a settlement, you'll have to pay it pretty quickly - say within 14 days, so if 182 x the Anytime Single fare is going to be a problem for you then it might be best to start looking at how you could have that money to hand in short order if needed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In view of the total amount that could potentially now be asked for, might the OP be perhaps best advised to consider seeking out specialist legal representation?

 

[Haywain]

In view of the total amount that could potentially now be asked for, might the OP be perhaps best advised to consider seeking out specialist legal representation?

That depends on the OP's desire to get the matter sorted out quickly and how they feel about the additional expense that might be involved. Having a solicitor deal with the matter may lead to a quicker resolution, but is likely to come with an additional cost that will be in the region of £500 to £800. That will be on top of the unpaid fares and GA's administration costs - the unpaid fares alone would appear to be starting in the region of £1800, based on a very rough calculation.

 

[nicky100]

Thank you all for your replies, all very useful insights and information, now I'll just play the waiting game until the letter arrives and start looking down the back of the sofa. Ill post again once I receive the letter

 

[Titfield]

One thing we do not know, and I would be interested in @Hadders @Haywain @30907 @AlterEgo views (to name but 4 of the veteran advisers) is in cases of large scale evasion:

how often has employing a solicitor been decisive in achieving an out of court settlement versus a diy approach being unsuccessful?

do TOCs when dealing with a solicitor reduce the admin fee or accept an argument for fares already paid thus reducing the financial burden on the fare evader?

I recognise we do not have any conclusive data to analyse but is there any feeling as to the benefits of employing a solicitor in these cases?

 

[Haywain]

how often has employing a solicitor been decisive in achieving an out of court settlement versus a diy approach being unsuccessful?

I don't think employing a solicitor makes any real difference in general.

do TOCs when dealing with a solicitor reduce the admin fee or accept an argument for fares already paid thus reducing the financial burden on the fare evader?

There's no evidence to suggest that happens.

is there any feeling as to the benefits of employing a solicitor in these cases?

It will probably lead to a quicker resolution, and involve a little less hassle.

 

[John R]

One thing we do not know, and I would be interested in @Hadders @Haywain @30907 @AlterEgo views (to name but 4 of the veteran advisers) is in cases of large scale evasion:

how often has employing a solicitor been decisive in achieving an out of court settlement versus a diy approach being unsuccessful?

do TOCs when dealing with a solicitor reduce the admin fee or accept an argument for fares already paid thus reducing the financial burden on the fare evader?

I recognise we do not have any conclusive data to analyse but is there any feeling as to the benefits of employing a solicitor in these cases?

I’m sure there was one case recently where GTR (puzzlingly) didn’t seem to want to go down the settlement route, but a solicitor turned it around late in the process.

 

[Titfield]

It will probably lead to a quicker resolution, and involve a little less hassle.

Thanks for the responses. That does then beg the follow up question whether C£500 - £800 solicitors fees is worth the quicker resolution and a little less hassle?

Self evidently a judgement call for the person involved.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks for the responses. That does then beg the follow up question whether C£500 - £800 solicitors fees is worth the quicker resolution and a little less hassle?

Indeed. Outside chance that the solicitor might also be able to negotiate with Greater Anglia that the fares already paid can be offset against what's likely now due.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for the responses. That does then beg the follow up question whether C£500 - £800 solicitors fees is worth the quicker resolution and a little less hassle?

Self evidently a judgement call for the person involved.

It depends on the train company. I doubt it is going to be necessary here, to be honest.

 

[Hadders]

My view on this that although this is large scale fare evasion if you co-operate with Greater Anglia it is likely that an out of court settlement can be achieved.

A solicitor might be able to fast track a case but it does come at a significant cost and probably won't change the final outcome.

Let us know when the letter from GA arrives and we can advise next steps.

 

[nicky100]

Thank you all, I'll post a copy of the letter when it arrives

 

[nicky100]

Hi all - I've received an email today from GA Fraud & Investigations Team, any advice on a reply and next steps would be warmly appreciated, attachment below

 

[Hadders]

This suggests that GA are open to offering you a settlement, which would keep the matter out of court, which I assume is the desired outcome for you.

I would research your online ticketing account to identify how many times you have evaded your fare and send a short, concise reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Tell them how many times you have evaded your fare (give them the date range you used but quite instances rather than values)
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

I expect GA to offer you an out of court settlement which will keep the matter out of court. While telling them how many times you’ve done this could be viewed as incriminating yourself, GA can readily find this out (and probably already have). By being upfront with them you might avoid having to attend an interview with them.

If you are offered an out of court settlement you will typically have to pay an admin fee of around £150 plus compensation for the fares avoided at the fully Anytime rate. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered.

Post up a copy of your draft reply in this thread a forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[essexcommuter1]

Hi OP- have you had an update on the above? In a similar situation to yourself and very anxious!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi OP- have you had an update on the above? In a similar situation to yourself and very anxious!

Hi @essexcommuter1 - welcome to the forum!

our experience is that however similar problems look, there’s almost always something that makes them different. Also having more than one issue on a thread gets confusing for everyone. So i you’d like us to help you with your problem, please start a new thread and we will see what we can do.

 

[Ducky88]

please start your own thread so people can help you

 

[nicky100]

Great news, they have agreed not to prosecute, I do have a hefty fine but that was expected and the amount was very close to what I'd calculated.

Lesson well and truly learnt!

Thanks all for your input.

 

[BongoStar]

Positive outcome.

I gather you did not engage a solicitor, which reinforces the view that an out of court settlement with some TOC is possible by going DIY.

Without disclosing too much information, can you let us know if - based on your calculations- the settlement amount provided credit for the fare already paid or did you get charged the full anytime single each way ticket fare.

 

[nicky100]

I did not engage a solicitor, I only sent one email very similar to other examples on this website.

I believe they charged me for 91 singles but did deduct what I'd already paid for the partial fare, I count myself extremely lucky!

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know, as this will help us to advise people with similar cases in future. I'm pleased you managed to obtain a favourable outcome.

 

[furlong]

I believe they charged me for 91 singles but did deduct what I'd already paid for the partial fare, I count myself extremely lucky!

The figure looks very consistent with charging for singles (given price changes over the period) to cover the unpaid part of the journey, Shenfield to Stratford.

 

[Wolfie]

The figure looks very consistent with charging for singles (given price changes over the period) to cover the unpaid part of the journey, Shenfield to Stratford.

That is a result! Could have been much much worse.