Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[F Great Eastern]

It really starts to feel like Greater Anglia have let go on the maintenance on soon to be replaced stock since the situation is reaching a point where it is a rarity to be on a service that isn't short formed on both the DMU and the EMU services franchise wide.

If it was just one type of train that GA were having issues with I would have sympathy, but we're seeing short formations across all of the EMU fleets and the DMU side isn't much better, with a good number 3 car services being down to 2 cars and two cars been doing to 1 car on a daily basis.

At this stage the Renatus program should be paused, I think passengers would rather travel on a full length unrefurbished 321 than spend the next few months travelling on something half the size. so they can experience a refurbished train for a very small amount of time before it's withdrawn anyway.

The current level of service is at an all time low for me, travelling in peak is unbearable this summer with the constant short forms and heat and cancellations, although at least the staff are excellent as usual and handing out free water which is very appreciated - we're so lucky to have such great front line staff in the region.

 

[86246]

Still a fair few cancellations on the intercity services and half a dozen not doing the full route and running to and from Ipswich.

This evening has seen from London the 16:00, 17:00 and 20:30 cancelled. The 16:30 and 19:30 started from Ipswich. Appears to be a few sets out of service not helped by the incident involving 1P00.

 

[Wivenswold]

Their major supplier going into liquidation is, from what I've heard from GA drivers, the main issue. Wolverton had done nearly all the DC to AC conversions before this spares shortage became an issue. Losing 2 of the 321's to Scotrail (another 2 go soon) has added to the problems. There's generally only 5 units away at anyone time in Doncaster and we're another unit up as 448 has returned. I wonder whether we might end up seeing 317722 rushed back into service. GA could do worse than lease some 315s from MTR as they come available. There must be a few Ilford drivers on GA side that used to sign them and would only need a refresher and the 315s are cleared on GE lines. They'd be fine for the branches and the Chelmsford starters.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Their major supplier going into liquidation is, from what I've heard from GA drivers, the main issue. Wolverton had done nearly all the DC to AC conversions before this spares shortage became an issue. Losing 2 of the 321's to Scotrail (another 2 go soon) has added to the problems.

I would buy that more if it just effected the type of train the parts were for, but we're seeing 317/321/360 and apparently 379 short forms on a regular basis as well as the DMU side struggling as well as the 90s.

It is across the board and GA need to put a plan into action to resolve it as it has been going on for far too long now and I know a few people who are driving more as a result of it as it's far less stressful.

If they can't fix it they should hire some more stock in. I've took approx 20 trains in the last two weeks and all but three have been short formed.

 

[Alfie1014]

Had the pleasure of a single 153 on the 11:36 Norwich - Gt Yarmouth yesterday full and standing including in the luggage space! A bus direct to Yarmouth was also provided but we were only going to Reedham so it wasn’t much use for us! Short set was even shorter at only BSO and one TSO, plus cancellations including one Lowestoft rounder. At least the main line services we used were pretty much on time, though the air con was struggling to cope on the return. Good start to the school holidays.

 

[Alfie1014]

Pretty much a perfect storm at the moment with all the rolling stock problems and infrastructure- track defects - I see that NR have an emergency possession at Liverpool Street this weekend with only 6 plats and 2 running lines going to be open, service reductions mostly on Saturday.

Problem is most UK rolling stock air conditioning doesn’t perform at temps near 30C, loads of complaints about the 379s, 357s, 377s on Line and even the 800s are overheating. That said I’ve had some awful journeys in hot weather in Germany on ICE3s in particular. You need to head to the Med to get trains with reliable air-con.

 

[306024]

Their major supplier going into liquidation is, from what I've heard from GA drivers, the main issue. Wolverton had done nearly all the DC to AC conversions before this spares shortage became an issue. Losing 2 of the 321's to Scotrail (another 2 go soon) has added to the problems. There's generally only 5 units away at anyone time in Doncaster and we're another unit up as 448 has returned. I wonder whether we might end up seeing 317722 rushed back into service. GA could do worse than lease some 315s from MTR as they come available. There must be a few Ilford drivers on GA side that used to sign them and would only need a refresher and the 315s are cleared on GE lines. They'd be fine for the branches and the Chelmsford starters.

Keep it simple, 2 x 12 car 315s on a couple of Southend Peak only diagrams, Southend drivers used to sign them too. Operationally straightforward, but the paperwork and time involved in assessing the drivers competence is something else.

Aircon on 321 314 was very good today, like a fridge.

 

[Class 170101]

I don't think MTR can spare any Class 315s can they? Aren't they running 7 car Class 345s on Paddington to Hayes and Harlington Shuttle currently so their GE turns are being covered by Class 315s.

 

[Wivenswold]

I don't think MTR can spare any Class 315s can they? Aren't they running 7 car Class 345s on Paddington to Hayes and Harlington Shuttle currently so their GE turns are being covered by Class 315s.

Yes, but there was a report yesterday that 9 car units have been testing out Hayes & Harlington bay platform this week, so it looks like the 7 car Class 345s will be back East Side soon. I understand 2 have returned already.

 

[capital12]

Has 321448 made a re-appearance in service yet?!

 

[LAX54]

Yesterday was a rare day for incidents. kicking off with a couple of failed DVT sets in the Point, then 1P00 at Gissing, 1P04 at Bethnal Green, topped off by the stock off 1P04 being hauled back by the 37 failing in the most awkward spot you could thing of with the rear of the train blocking Trowse Bridge.

Whilst it is the summer, I assume its the long stint of unseasonably high temps that are giving rise to issues, not only track based, but train too ? Even our AC in the PSB is struggling

 

[Silverlink]

Renatus programme in my opinion should never have happened if they were planning on replacing the whole fleet. A class 455 style refurb would have just been fine for these units

 

[Wivenswold]

It was probably safest to go ahead, in 2015 Greater Anglia had 140 4 car units that had to be refurbished by 1st Jan 2020. Given that it's taken 3.5 years to complete 20 Eversholt were probably right to carry on. Besides we don't know what happened behind closed doors. For all we know GA might have wanted the conversions to be stopped but Eversholt insisted they go ahead as they've got a future lease lined up for them.

But yes, in the circumstances and with a huge chunk of hindsight a refresh would have done just fine.

 

[samuelmorris]

As laughable as it is that they're still halfway done at this late hour, consider the delays that have beset the first two Aventra products and I think we can suggest it's not unlikely that most of the old stock will be needed a fair while longer. Having more units PIS compliant if nothing else will help - plus the fact that, on the assumption that the newer units are likely to be picked off first, it gives a better assurance that after the modern existing fleet is withdrawn, there are a few more units to cover while the 720 fleet is deployed. Unless anyone else is desperately after them, I don't consider it unlikely that in 2021 we'll still have the Renatus units in service covering for less than the full fleet of 720s being in use. After all, I think it's already been discussed at length there isn't much slack in the new fleet. If they come in with the same MTIN as the 345s currently have, even extrapolated for the higher daily mileage, or the production delay the 710s have, GA will be in no position to surrender the entirety of the 321s. At least this way they have some leftovers that are PRM compliant and (to some degree) air conditioned.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Can someone remind me the off-lease dates of all of the rolling stock aside from the 360/379 leaving in August 2020?

 

[Wivenswold]

The last DfT document I saw said that standard 321/3 and 321/4 come off lease on 31st October 2019. The Renatus units are on lease until the end of 2019.
317s see much more gradual decline from June 2019 with the last coming off lease in March 2020.

Those dates are almost certainly under review, constantly.

 

[samuelmorris]

What's with the livery on 311? No red on it anywhere, just grey lines and the GA logo. Is that from it having been vandalised?

 

[F Great Eastern]

As of 5 minutes ago there were 56 short forms showing on Journeycheck, which is even higher than yesterday.

Seems they at least have enough 90s to run the intercities today, although I've seen two rakes and perhaps a third (didn't catch the number) missing a carriage.

When the new stock comes in though short forms will be even more costly at peak since they'll half the capacity rather than cut it by a third.

 

[captainbigun]

It’s worse than that. With the fixed length fleet for the GE mainline set failure will mean cancellation. I see no prospect of one of the fleets being returned as planned. Retention of 360s makes most sense.

 

[RailWonderer]

It begs the question why didn't GA order from Siemens instead? Besides the 707s they built recently for SWT + the 700s (already made) to my knowledge they only have the 717s in the pipeline for the UK at the moment. They would be more reliable for sure, and arrive in service much quicker, and the Germans are thorough in their testing as seen in the past.

 

[Wivenswold]

It’s worse than that. With the fixed length fleet for the GE mainline set failure will mean cancellation. I see no prospect of one of the fleets being returned as planned. Retention of 360s makes most sense.

Yes, couldn't agree more. 5 for Walton/Harwich branches, 4x3 sets for enhanced shoulder peak services and 2x4 sets spare would provide a superb contingency, or even run all/most of the Clacton- Liverpool Street trains with them and keep the Siemens base at Clacton. 30 Renatus units could cover while they have a complete refurb. The "Doddlebugs" will be like new.

It would be nice to have our own distinct fleet again.

 

[F Great Eastern]

When I made this paint to Greater Anglia they said that they were very confident there was more than enough units to make sure every EMU at peak time will be 10 cars with spare units to cover for any issues.

As regular viewers here will know I've had serious reservations about the plan when it was announced all that time ago and what has happened since hasn't really changing my opinion, truth be told.

I would keep the 360s as well, although truth be told they'd be more expensive than the 321s you would have thought and the lack of wriggle room in the GA bid figures may mean it has to be 321 or nothing.

It also remains to be seen how they are going to cram as high as 124 seats in a single carriage in a new EMU (as the final layout dictates) without squashing people in sardine style. The people who keep the Desiros if they do stay, may well end up being better off.

 

[Alfie1014]

Have I told you about my plans for an Open Access service from Clacton to London using cheap as chips (!) 379s suitably refurbished, including griddle car, nice maroon livery and called Essex Express? Anyone for crowd funding?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Have I told you about my plans for an Open Access service from Clacton to London using cheap as chips (!) 379s suitably refurbished, including griddle car, nice maroon livery and called Essex Express? Anyone for crowd funding?

No, but I probably cannot afford to travel on it if Macquarie are charging you anywhere near as close as what Lloyds charged NXEA for leases!

 

[Wivenswold]

Have I told you about my plans for an Open Access service from Clacton to London using cheap as chips (!) 379s suitably refurbished, including griddle car, nice maroon livery and called Essex Express? Anyone for crowd funding?

I'm in.

 

[Class 170101]

I would keep the 360s as well, although truth be told they'd be more expensive than the 321s you would have thought and the lack of wriggle room in the GA bid figures may mean it has to be 321 or nothing.

I thought I read that the Class 321s had a higher cost per mileage than the Class 360s.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I thought I read that the Class 321s had a higher cost per mileage than the Class 360s.

Maybe they do, but I assume cost per mile doesn't take into account the leasing costs, just the operational ones?

 

[James321]

I remember old time ago First Great Eastern was operating class 321 on London to Clacton & slam door 312 was working colchester to walton shuttle then later new class 360 introduced on GE and replaced the slam door class 312 & class 360 instead of 321 on London to Clacton & 321 went working on colchester to walton shuttle.

 

[samuelmorris]

I do buy the 'seats per carriage' goals, the numbers are tight but they do add up. The stock allocation though I'm not so convinced. Like for like replacement gives a very similar number of units except for the DMU fleet which, rightly, has a bit more slack.

The only way you get gains beyond that is by the consolidated fleet attaining a higher MTBF than the 317/321/360s do on average. Based on performance of other new stock that is likely to take until 2023 earliest. Otherwise the only unit availability gains to be had are from replacing 8-car services with 5s. It'll happen. Maybe not as often as we fear, but it'll definitely happen, not just as short forms, but in the timetable.

Aboard 321315 now, the A/C is nice and cool despite the intense heat on the concourse at LST and also despite both doors being open. Could they really not program in climate auto-close on the doors, given that the modules were replaced? It's no wonder they had such a reliability problem with the A/C on these units.

 

[F Great Eastern]

One of my friends was on short formed Stansted sets tonight and the reason for short forms on services was because the fleet is having WiFi updated.

With all the unit shortages? Now? Really?