Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[dp21]

I'll have an ask around but it'll be a little while yet. They started building the 755s before the 720s and the first unit isn't due to be finished until next month so I wouldn't expect to see a 720 around until summer if not later.

 

[F Great Eastern]

On the subject of unusual couplings, this morning a 3 car 170 left Ipswich with a 156 and a 153 attached to the back of it!!

 

[Wivenswold]

Does anyone know when the first 720 unit is expected to be completed?

Two useful links:

https://www.suffolkchamber.co.uk/media/44250/2017-04-04-jd-aga-to-tib.pdf - This is from April last year and includes the introduction plan for 720s on page 13. Looks like the first one is expected to be finished around May/June.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/east-anglia-2016-rail-franchise-agreement - The franchise agreement, lease dates for the out-going stock may have changed. Quite an interesting read in places.

Interesting to note that 2x321 from GN are due to come off lease this week (14th Feb) I assume that's 418 & 420. I wonder whether that will happen and if the additional 2 units leased (401 & 403) will also go this week.

 

[dk1]

On the subject of unusual couplings, this morning a 3 car 170 left Ipswich with a 156 and a 153 attached to the back of it!!

Often unusual to see during the day but actually happens quite a bit.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Interesting to note that 2x321 from GN are due to come off lease this week (14th Feb) I assume that's 418 & 420. I wonder whether that will happen and if the additional 2 units leased (401 & 403) will also go this week.

Is the East side that bad off for EMUs? I've been to from Stansted a few times this month and that seems to have had issues with short formations but seems to be less of a problem on this side so maybe they could probably do without them?

 

[Wivenswold]

I've had a couple of short forms lately, but both were Desiro sets so I'm not aware of how the 321s are doing. Renatus units seem to be bedding in though.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I've had a couple of short forms lately, but both were Desiro sets so I'm not aware of how the 321s are doing. Renatus units seem to be bedding in though.

Only short forms I've seen is 321s (non Ren), but in all fairness it's not been a real issue like is seen on the DMU fleets and WA.

 

[Alfie1014]

Is the East side that bad off for EMUs? I've been to from Stansted a few times this month and that seems to have had issues with short formations but seems to be less of a problem on this side so maybe they could probably do without them?

Last week on the east side wasn’t helped by two fatalities at the beginning of the week taking hauled sets out for a time with at least one diagram replaced by 321s and consequential short forms in addition to usual “too many trains needed for repair” and the perennial 17:38 to Ipswich starting down country because it was late off maintenance from Ilford. Not sure whether part of the problem is Ilford is just under too much pressure at the moment what with its normal workload and 345 commissioning problems? Never mind the new depot at Brantham will help in the near future, oh wait a minute!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Ironically I was only just speaking about not seeing short formed 360s and tonight the 17:52 ex LST to Clacton I was on was short formed at 8 cars and interesting scenes at Stratford when there was a scrum to get on and some people couldn't board, also saw another couple of 4 car units on the West Anglia side at peak time again.

AGA don't help themselves though when they deny that there is the amount of short forms going on that are and putting it down to unusually large passenger flows in some cases as well when evidently that's a symptom of the short forms - not everything is being shown on Journeycheck either.

Are the ex FCC 321s still all leaving?

On a more positive note the DMU situation seems (slightly) better today.

 

[Trainfan344]

Wherry lines shut all week so no Lowestoft/Yarmouth diagrams to cover.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Wherry lines shut all week so no Lowestoft/Yarmouth diagrams to cover.

On Monday they were struggling very badly with 153s on 3 car 170 diagrams and the odd cancellation even though those lines were shut so it must have been as bad as it's ever been then.

I would imagine there would have been mass cancellations on Monday if the Wherry lines were in action.

 

[samuelmorris]

Ironically I was only just speaking about not seeing short formed 360s and tonight the 17:52 ex LST to Clacton I was on was short formed at 8 cars and interesting scenes at Stratford when there was a scrum to get on and some people couldn't board, also saw another couple of 4 car units on the West Anglia side at peak time again.

AGA don't help themselves though when they deny that there is the amount of short forms going on that are and putting it down to unusually large passenger flows in some cases as well when evidently that's a symptom of the short forms - not everything is being shown on Journeycheck either.

Are the ex FCC 321s still all leaving?

On a more positive note the DMU situation seems (slightly) better today.

I'd be amazed if they all go, some of them have had their interiors ripped out and replaced with the GA interior, like 408 for example which I had tonight. Presumably the ones they've done that to should be staying?

 

[Shunter_69]

There was a fatality yesterday involving a 12 car 360 so I assume that was the reason for short formed 360’s tonight

 

[Wivenswold]

=
Are the ex FCC 321s still all leaving?

No, there are four on short-term loans that were due to finish today. I travelled home on 401 tonight in fact. 8 are due to remain on-lease until 31/10/19 which is when all non-Renatus 321s should be retired. According to the franchise agreement, the Renatus units come off lease on 01/12/19. However, I understand the next issue of Rail magazine will provide details of changes to the plan.

Hardly a surprise, the 22x10 car Aventras are slated to enter service (if all goes to the original plan) between December 2019 and March 2020. By the time the first ones enter service GA's legacy EMU fleet will be down to 31 x 317s, 21 x 360s and 30 x 379s (with the latter planned as cover for any delays with the Stadler 12 car units). The numbers don't stack up and I therefore expect the Renatus leases to be extended to April 2020 at least. We'll find out later this week I hope.

 

[GEcommuter]

Not strictly rolling stock related but I was having a skim of the Anglia Route Strategic Plan Jan ‘18 & on p.27 it said GA is funding Network Rail for works connected to franchise commitments (including the new rolling stock). Do TOC’s normally ‘fund’ NR and if so what would GA be paying NR to do?

 

[Wivenswold]

Welcome to the forum. Many of us are commuters who've become more interested in railway operations as time goes by.

I wish you the best of luck in finding out the details of that arrangement, the DfT will rule that it's "commercially sensitive" but I think it's a worthwhile question, more over was this payment included in the franchise agreement and will GA receive funding from Central Government to pay NR (which wouldn't surprise me). Sorry I can't answer it, I suspect someone will have a greater understanding though.

 

[dp21]

GA are getting very little if anything from the gvt in this franchise. It's all about premiums and paying £xbn to the DfT. From what I have visibility of, there are no direct lines of funding between the franchise and NR to provide improvements, I think they are government funded initiatives much like on east coast where there was supposed to be all sorts of upgrades including ETCS which was meant to bring SUPER high frequency and higher speed trains. Look what happened there when they weren't delivered....

Hope that makes sense. Bit of a brain dump.

 

[dk1]

Not strictly rolling stock related but I was having a skim of the Anglia Route Strategic Plan Jan ‘18 & on p.27 it said GA is funding Network Rail for works connected to franchise commitments (including the new rolling stock). Do TOC’s normally ‘fund’ NR and if so what would GA be paying NR to do?

Possibly for projects such as the reuse & bringing up to standard Yarmouth carriage sidings also the same & installation of OHL at Victoria Sidings, Trowse.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The middle car of 170202 is currently sitting at the end of one of the sidings at Crown Point. Not sure where the driving cars are.

 

[dp21]

The middle car of 170202 is currently sitting at the end of one of the sidings at Crown Point. Not sure where the driving cars are.

Battery charger fault. The driving cars are out and about forming a 2-car in service.

 

[Wivenswold]

Does anyone know if 321 401/403/418/420 leases ended last week as planned?

 

[nxea321446]

Does anyone know if 321 401/403/418/420 leases ended last week as planned?

420 was in service on Saturday, 403 eventually never went on hire to GA and is still at Doncaster

 

[Wivenswold]

Thanks sir. I thought it was strange I'd never seen it. Looks like the Renatus over-run might see these staying a bit longer.

 

[samuelmorris]

I should try and track 418 down then really, I've had the others in that group (excluding 403 of course). I haven't seen any particular pattern to the way the units are being allocated, as far as I can tell?

 

[Wivenswold]

I should try and track 418 down then really, I've had the others in that group (excluding 403 of course). I haven't seen any particular pattern to the way the units are being allocated, as far as I can tell?

It seems fairly random from this passenger's point of view but I've seen 418 quite a bit on the Clacton- London service of late.

 

[samuelmorris]

That would probably explain why I haven't had it - not a service I can use during peak times, unless I fancy buying a paper ticket and going on a jolly to Chelmsford and back! (Not that I ever would, since by the time you see what unit is on the service you're through the barriers anyway, I'm not that dedicated!)

 

[iphone76]

Does anyone know if 321 401/403/418/420 leases ended last week as planned?

I'm travelling on 401 as I type. The rear 4 carriages of 12 of the 10.11 Wickford to Liverpool Street.

 

[Wivenswold]

I think case closed then, clearly no 321s are leaving yet. It's a shame DfT don't update the published Franchise Agreement or provide amendments. Maybe it's deliberate.

 

[87015]

I think case closed then, clearly no 321s are leaving yet. It's a shame DfT don't update the published Franchise Agreement or provide amendments. Maybe it's deliberate.

Not sure DfT are involved. They were (originally at least) posted as additional units to cover ongoing issues with the bent ones rather than additional assets to the franchise.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Updates on expected in-service dates of the new fleets, via Richard Clinnick at RAIL (source)

• March 2019: 5-car Class 720 EMU enter service on GEML.
• April 2019: 10-car Class 720 EMU enter service on WAML.
• "Late April" 2019: Stadler EMU enter service on GEML.
• May 2019: Stadler DEMU enter service, May 2019.
• By March 2020: all new fleets accepted.
• By end of August 2020: existing fleets withdrawn from service.

That's quite ambitious, IMHO, not just the timescale, but also the associated difficulty of introducing so many new trains in a very short space of time.