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Greater anglia - qualified
- Thread starter Deano4
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dk1
Veteran Member
You’re welcome. Yes that’s a little different.
RedYellowGreen
Member
If you're chasing money, with £76k basic (and presumably pensionable), it would appear that SWR is the place to be.
Astro_Orbiter
Member
Why would you want to work 5 days a week instead of 4? When Sunday is part of the working week it means there's an attached salary increase to compensate for this, so you're getting a higher salary, working less days, plus you can use Annual Leave etc for Sunday's like it's a normal day instead of having to request unavailable status or find someone to cover it for you.
Sundays outside is one of the most archaic and useless conditions as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah I can't work it out either.
I'd get it if it was fully outside like there was zero obligation to work it and you was on a pure 4 day week but that's not the case.
Also the bit about "oh if you do your Sundays you'll be near other tocs pay so it works out" but then that means you have to do 5 day weeks when the other toc's do a pure 4 day and unless you are an old boy you want every single penny to be pensionable
100% wholeheartedly agree.
martin2345uk
Established Member
Hmm I'm now wondering if this would be a wise move from my current FOC after all....!
At my TOC, we get a decent basic salary (on a par with some with Sundays as part of the working week) and Sundays are still outside the working week. As far as I’m concerned it’s a win win. I’ve never had any issue getting rid of any rostered Sundays I don’t want to keep. We can still put ourselves unavailable for a rostered Sunday, and if there’s cover, we don’t have to work it….or if you’re that way inclined, you can play the system (like many do, and just refuse to work it regardless).
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£76k basic? As far as I’m aware their four year deal maxed out at £67k, less any location allowances (the max for inner London being about £2k I believe).
Astro_Orbiter
Member
That's where it's worse at GA, Sundays are not part of the working week, but rostered Sundays are committed, so if nobody wants to work it for you, you've got to do it. It's enforced overtime and it's rubbish.
RedYellowGreen
Member
It still amazes me that in this modern World where things and people operate 7 days a week, some TOCs have this bizarre practice of paying drivers overtime to work on a Sunday. That said, It's simply awesome and long may it continue!
Most people aren’t expected to be prepared to work seven days per week, including any public holidays apart from Xmas day and Boxing Day. Most people aren’t expected to finish work at 0100 on a Sunday morning, and be back at work Monday morning at 0400 either…
And many TOCs don’t pay drivers overtime for Sundays….
Indeed, and if you worked in an office Mon/Fri 9-5, you’d not be expected to work a Sunday either.
RedYellowGreen
Member
Nobody is suggesting anybody works 7 days per week, but you have to admit it, getting paid extra to work on a Sunday, providing a service that generally runs 7 days a week is a dated practice. This is public transport we're talking about, providing a service to the public.
My mate is a copper. He doesn't get overtime if a particular working week has him in on a Sunday. I'm sure he's not the only profession either experiencing this.
My mate is a copper. He doesn't get overtime if a particular working week has him in on a Sunday. I'm sure he's not the only profession either experiencing this.
Astro_Orbiter
Member
You're right, make Sundays part of the normal working week, with associated uplift in headline salary to reflect the loss of extra money for working Sundays. Done.
I don't think you actually get it. The point is some of these tocs advertise a 4 day working week but with having to do the Sunday it becomes a 5 day week. If it was just part of the working week that you have at some tocs then you'll still have your 4 days on **
** I am aware there are some tocs with Sundays inside that may work more then 4 days a week but this is because they get a week of RDs alongside their week of AL thus having 2 weeks off.
But why shouldn’t workers get paid to work Sundays etc? Tesco pay more for Sundays and nights?
BTP officers get double time for bank holidays.
dk1
Veteran Member
And the reason so many police officers have retrained as train drivers. I was shocked at the conditions of service they have to put up with in the force.
Astro_Orbiter
Member
Can't bare the whole "what about the doctors/nurses/policemen etc etc" arguments, not the same job and not the same conditions, end of.
Not to mention the salaries (which is usually the talking point) of nurses/docs etc isn’t actually that bad all things considered.
Indeed. As always on here people will draw selective comparisons with different industries, but only ever looking downwards at worse conditions, not upwards at better. Most office workers don’t do Sundays, neither do many GPs and good luck getting a plumber out on a Sunday. If you do it’s ££££££.
My Sundays are inside (I’m fine with that). That doesn’t mean I don’t understand those who signed up to contracts with Sundays outside wanting to retain that. Especially as, even by the standards of shift work, train crew shifts are about as extreme and irregular as you can find anywhere, so some staff understandably value having one guaranteed day off each week.
It’s laughable really. How many Monday to Friday workers would be willing to start going in at weekends and on bank holidays and working at the crazy times of day and night we do. Even without overtime I can regularly be rostered to work six or seven consecutive days.
Yes we sign up for it, but it can be unbelievably challenging at times, and means things like a guaranteed day off per week can be a lot more significant for quality of life than many realise.
dk1
Veteran Member
I had a mate who turned down what would have been an excellent career & on far better pay & conditions purely for the fact he might have to work so couldn’t go to football on a Saturday. I was gobsmacked.
Well the third year of the deal was 65k basic (minus the retention and regional allowances). The fourth year of the deal was either a 3.08% increase bringing it to 67k basic or rpi whichever is the greater. So the figure of 76k is about right including the allowances.
I understand that now, given RPI was a lot higher (7.1%?), although £76k with allowances is still optimistic to be honest (£72k/£73k more realistic?).
To be honest too , the media always portrays drivers full salary and nurses and police officer probationary salary. My local hospital in Bedfordshire , was recruiting a nurse in iirc midwifery at 50k p plus. My local police headquarters , an assistant chief constable at 101k . Not chief constable but assistant at that money. My daughters mother in law is a headteacher on over 60k and there is someone on this forum , now a signaller on 50k ish and that was a paycut from his teacher salary. My GP published their average salary on their website . 104k last year.
Some headteachers are on over £100k too.
But also, even talking new in service personnel in other walks of life. A Nurse once qualified enters at band 5 (about £26k - average salary). Most nurses with a few years under their belt or after moving up the bands are on over £40k a year.
A police officer generally joins on £22k less any weighting or location allowances. After 7 years, they’re on £40k a year generally (as a PC still).
Teachers after qualifying are on between £27k and £30k. Junior doctors start on around £25k but can earn three figure salaries after a few years and specialising in a particular field.
Train drivers are paid well, but not undeservingly so in my opinion.
Yes 74,582 top. That will be for tier 1 depots ie Waterloo & Wimbledon. Tier 2 depots will be slightly less. Had to edit after checking the deal
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Its worse than that, they go and find that a miniscule handful of drivers who work up to the Hidden limits and pull every other type of extra pay (like lodging pay and so on) and end up breaking £100k and then portray it like thats what we are all on
20atthemagnet
Member
Ill help with some then.
* You’re not working less hours because the roster will be rebalanced. The roster is balanced to average out over a period of with the firth day on some lines. Working a 4 day only thing that will happen is the four days will become longer so you’re not working any less.
*Enhanced pay for low hours (sunday diagrams are a doddle compared to Mon-Sat)
*No obligation to work before or returning from A/L (to tie in with obligated rest day swap fri/sat going into A/L..so one week is more like 2 weeks off. You get week blocks of annual leave anyway. Sunday is irelevant going into it you get it off regardless if your rostered or not.
* The need to cover them often means more incentives on top of incentives already (Being offered 12 hours Sunday rate is not something uncommon for 7hr diagram)
* Offered value in exchange for a four day week (as offered before) is not the same value to as if the 26 per period were worked.
* As mentioned plenty of cover so Sunday can always be your day off if you really wanted it to. At GA I went years without having to work one meaning I could commit to things outside of work.
The bottom line is that Sundays interfere with a lot of the terms and conditions (i’ve only touched in a few) and if you bring Sundays inside of the working week at somewhere like greater Anglia a lot of those benefits/incentives become non-existent. The company knows this every now and then they suggest bringing them in for a value that sits somewhere between the monetary value and the current salary, knowing full well that it will knock out some awkward t&cs for them in the process. Naturally that’s not very popular amongst staff.
No longer at GA but Sundays and the link between some decent terms is probably the only good thing I would say about them that is left. As mentioned before they haven’t been competitive with their salaries and their turnaround of staff is becoming quite ridiculous. People come spend a year or two and then they’re off. Doesn’t help that they are surrounded by TOCs far superior in pay and terms (GTR, MTR, ARL) which is ironic considering those places are considered suburban depots. You know things are not going well when your neighbours are doing stoppers and are somehow working less than you for more money with excellent terms in the main.
In my opinion it’s great for trainees getting into driving madness for anyone qualified unless you’re travelling a long way to your current TOC/FOC and plan to live on top of one of their depots.
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Astro_Orbiter
Member
Well I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, the average diagram length at GA is 8 odd hours, 4 day week with Sundays outside, in essence, they can't make the jobs *that* much worse than they already are, plenty of 9+ hour jobs. When I said at work less, I meant that in terms of more days off, in my mind if I'm at work and the jobs average up to an hour longer, that's worth it for more usable days off.
Don't quite understand what you're saying about annual leave, if Sunday is a normal day you can swap the RD like any other, and agreements can be made as currently whereby you can move RD's during the week before, there's no arrangements currently whereby you are guaranteed movement of RD the week after leave, so I'm not quite sure what you mean, but if it was a RD you could swap it out like any other.
Sunday diagrams usually vary wildly in my experience, with plenty of tiny little 6 hour jobs but also plenty of 9/10 hour jobs too, and as for negotiating 12 hours for doing a 6hr job, I've worked at GA 10 years and only a handful of times have I been offered something like that, especially not recently with a million spares even on Sundays.
I have to agree though, unless you have a specific draw to GA territory, or are new and need to get your ticket, it's a wildly unnatractive company for qualified drivers.
Don't quite understand what you're saying about annual leave, if Sunday is a normal day you can swap the RD like any other, and agreements can be made as currently whereby you can move RD's during the week before, there's no arrangements currently whereby you are guaranteed movement of RD the week after leave, so I'm not quite sure what you mean, but if it was a RD you could swap it out like any other.
Sunday diagrams usually vary wildly in my experience, with plenty of tiny little 6 hour jobs but also plenty of 9/10 hour jobs too, and as for negotiating 12 hours for doing a 6hr job, I've worked at GA 10 years and only a handful of times have I been offered something like that, especially not recently with a million spares even on Sundays.
I have to agree though, unless you have a specific draw to GA territory, or are new and need to get your ticket, it's a wildly unnatractive company for qualified drivers.
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