Greater Anglia post May 2015

[CapitalStar378]

This isn't new news, the previous Greater Anglia RUS had also suggested trains with 378 style interiors for these routes:

To be exact, the latest draft is not an RUS (Route utilisation strategy) but the new type of Route Study.

Right, suggested and planned are 2 quite different things though, no?

I'll try to be more exact in future

 

[SPADTrap]

Just heard of a possible 315 in some kind of LOROL livery sitting in Ilford, no idea if accurate!

 

[Mattessex1986]

Will be nice if they get some 378's on the route by the time our training is finished next year

 

[SPADTrap]

Will be nice if they get some 378's on the route by the time our training is finished next year

Yeah it would be, is that a possibility? It would make sense as I've heard you'll also be doing some North London Line work as well as the WA inners?

 

[Mattessex1986]

Yea i believe those are the routes. I think at the start of the change over in may, LOROL are using the 315/317's currently used by WA, but hopefully, as most if LOROL runs with 378's, we will get them too.

 

[neodoughnut]

When I used to live in Ipswich I remember there was an 8/9 something service which was 170 and was booked to run non-stop between IPS and LST and one morning took only 54 mins.

As I have said before, I also agree with others that the (extremely) poor acceleration of the 90s combined with long dwell times due to slam door stock contribute an extra 10-15 mins on a LST to NRW journey.

I think that with modern stock IEP/379/etc. with a fast stopping pattern of LST-COL-IPS-NRW it could make it under 90 mins with the current infrastructure.

 

[Chris125]

Will be nice if they get some 378's on the route by the time our training is finished next year

'TfL shortlists bidders for trains'

Alas West Anglia won't see replacement trains before 2017, indeed the winning manufacturer won't be decided until Spring next year.

With no need for compatibility further 378s are also highly unlikely - Bombardier have already won the Crossrail order with their next generation 'Aventra' platform and their competitors will no doubt be proposing similarly advanced designs.

Chris

 

[jon0844]

Not sure if it's necessarily relevant to this thread, but with Cheshunt being the terminus for LO services, are there any plans to improve the public transport provision outside?

As AGA will still run the station and TfL has no control outside, I assume I've already answered my own question!

 

[chubs]

When I used to live in Ipswich I remember there was an 8/9 something service which was 170 and was booked to run non-stop between IPS and LST and one morning took only 54 mins.

As I have said before, I also agree with others that the (extremely) poor acceleration of the 90s combined with long dwell times due to slam door stock contribute an extra 10-15 mins on a LST to NRW journey.

I think that with modern stock IEP/379/etc. with a fast stopping pattern of LST-COL-IPS-NRW it could make it under 90 mins with the current infrastructure.

For a while the 170's ran a few services NRW to LST but I think seating capacity was an issue.

Anglia ran a service NRW to LST in 1h40m using 86+MKII calling only Ipswich and Colchester stock but believe this is no longer possible due to capacity on the line?

 

[jopsuk]

will the West Anglia Overground concession have any 317s, or will it be all-315 (like the holding pre-Crossrail "TfL Rail" concession)?

 

[306024]

For a while the 170's ran a few services NRW to LST but I think seating capacity was an issue.

Anglia ran a service NRW to LST in 1h40m using 86+MKII calling only Ipswich and Colchester stock but believe this is no longer possible due to capacity on the line?

Seating capacity was more than 'an issue'. They were hopeless on many journeys south of Colchester with additional relief trains having to run on Saturdays to reduce overcrowding.

In theory you could run the faster Norwich services without the Manningtree and Diss stops, but that would sever Harwich to Ipswich connections at Manningtree and return Diss to an hourly service. When they ran previously many were comparatively lightly loaded between Ipswich and Norwich.

 

[SPADTrap]

will the West Anglia Overground concession have any 317s, or will it be all-315 (like the holding pre-Crossrail "TfL Rail" concession)?

Quite a few 317s as well.

 

[306024]

will the West Anglia Overground concession have any 317s, or will it be all-315 (like the holding pre-Crossrail "TfL Rail" concession)?

317s are used now so there is no reason for them to disappear, unless someone builds a dozen or so more 315s.

 

[SPADTrap]

317s are used now so there is no reason for them to disappear, unless someone builds a dozen or so more 315s.

I think LOROL are taking quite a few of the 317 subclasses.

 

[jopsuk]

The new concession is ordering 39 units, of which they need 31 (including spares?) to run the West Anglia and Romford-Upminster Shuttle.

Presumably they'll need a similar number of 315s + 317s. Wikipedia (hah) says TfL Rail will take 44 315s, so LO WA will get 17. There's 15 317/5 - that would take LO WA to 32 units.

*the branding for the GE pre-crossrail metro operation

 

[swt_passenger]

Right, suggested and planned are 2 quite different things though, no?

I'll try to be more exact in future

I wasn't meaning to be critical, just attempting to 'reinforce' your post.

Because once the '378 style' trains actually arrive, there'll be loads of people complaining that it was never ever consulted on, and is a complete surprise...

 

[Be3G]

I thought I'd read somewhere not too long ago that the seating layout planned for TfL's new West Anglia routes was going to be more akin to that used by the S Stock on the Underground… but I'm not sure where I actually read that.

 

[CapitalStar378]

That would be a good compromise but have heard nothing from TfL about their WA plans apart from the usual deep clean statements.

 

[Alfie1014]

Interesting report published on the TfL website about the transfer of WA and Crossrail service next May.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/fpc-20141125-part-1-item09-west-anglia-transfer.pdf

Of noteis the recognition that the split will cost units, an additional two being required and the fact that they may have to come from elsewhere!

4.13 Top five risks are shown below:




Risk Description


Mitigation Actions

1
Insufficient rolling stock available – would not allow operation of specified train service
Work in progress to secure trains from other sources to overcome any shortfall of trains transferred from AGA.


4.16 Devolution also drives the need for two additional trains to provide resilience and improve operational performance. These will be leased from a Rolling Stock Leasing Company ROSCO. Rolling stock will transfer from AGA and be leased from the relevant ROSCO but some trains may need to be cascaded from other operators for leasing by LOROL.

 

[Pugwash]

It will be interesting to see if ( and by how much ) fares are lowered on the GEML metro services, this could impact fares from further out by split ticketing.

 

[jopsuk]

I wouldn't read too much intot that. I'd guess LO WA will be taking the 317/5 fleet- possibly some /8 if needed. The simplest replacement would be the stored /7s

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought I'd read somewhere not too long ago that the seating layout planned for TfL's new West Anglia routes was going to be more akin to that used by the S Stock on the Underground… but I'm not sure where I actually read that.

I just think different people writing independently have used '378 style' and 'S7 style' as a quick shorthand for the same thing, which is basically a train with all longitudinal seating and wide open gangways between carriages.

Alternatively maybe they are hoping for a train more like the S8 variation, with a few 'normal' seats...

 

[Be3G]

Alternatively maybe they are hoping for a train more like the S8 variation, with a few 'normal' seats...

Ah yes, S8 specifically is what I meant – I remember mixed seating being mentioned specifically. Having not been in to London much during this past year I'd forgotten that the Met's S8 was different to the other lines' S7.

 

[306024]

I wouldn't read too much intot that. I'd guess LO WA will be taking the 317/5 fleet- possibly some /8 if needed. The simplest replacement would be the stored /7s

All the /5s and a few /8s ? How many do you want ??

Leave some for AGA, they've still got the Cambridge, Hertford and Stortford services to resource.

As for the /7s, just getting them to go is proving a challenge.

 

[badassunicorn]

Most of the /7's, bar the ones currently being used by GA are finished, in that they are painted, new carpeted and had any work needed completed. But they are sending them back to Eastleigh last I heard. As for LOROL I'd be pleased if they took all the /5's and some /8's, as they are in a much worse state inside than the /6's =D

 

[Olaf]

While I think having a more focused route structure should help, I can't say that much I've seen or experienced of GA leads me to expect them to improve. Just like Northern, Abellio seem perfectly content to trundle along investing the bare minimum in rolling stock maintenance and refurbishment, with little of the innovation (new routes, etc) demonstrated by their predecessor.

Abellio are working with DfT on the new proposals for the route which substantially improve services - there may be no change from day to day, but the biggest changes take a long time to incubate.
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And here is Network Rail's CP5 wibble:

In the longer term it is not feasible to operate additional outer and long distance services beyond 28 trains per hour over the GEML without a prohibitively expensive capacity upgrade between Shenfield and London Liverpool Street. It is therefore proposed to consider the scheme put forward in the London to Ipswich Multi-Modal (LOIS) Study. This scheme involved four-tracking between Colchester and Chelmsford and then building a new line across to the LUL Central Line and then running into a proposed Crossrail line 2 alignment, thereby enabling additional outer services to operate. However this would need to be considered in the context of the best use for Crossrail line 2 (further details below) and is therefore only one of a number of potential options.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...iture plans/route plans/anglia route plan.pdf

Yes, that has been a long-term aspiration to provide relief at Colchester; I can not remember when I first heard of that one, but it pre-dates Crossrail/Crossrail2.