Greater Anglia Invitation to Tender - 21st April 2011

[ChrisCooper]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/greater-anglia/invitationtotender.pdf

One interesting thing stands out to me from this. It's the first on the rolling stock list, 3 class 86s. Are we going to see 86s return on regular passenger work? I presume they would be for extra London to Norwich services. 16 DVTs are also listed, but only FOs for 14 sets (going on the current 2 each), so unless they are going to be short formed I don't know where the coaches would come from. Are there that many Mk3s still off lease? Where would the 86s come from aswell? Wouldn't trying to get some 90s off DBS be better for standardisation, afterall drivers would need retraining on 86s? I know many of DBSs off lease 90s are in poor state, but I doubt there are many decent 86s off lease.

Also interesting why 321s are split into 6 enteries. Ok there are /3s and /4s but the /3s are split into 2 batches and then there are another load just listed as 321s.

Oh and odd how 156s are called "commuter DMUs" wheras 153s are "inter-urban".

APPENDIX 1C: LIST OF ROLLING STOCK
3 class 86 locomotives
15 class 90 locomotives
5 class 153 DMU (inter urban DMU)
18 class 156 DMU (Commuter DMU)
24 class 170 DMU (inter urban DMU)
8 class 170 DMU (inter urban DMU)
244 class 315 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
20 class 322 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
84 class 360 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
60 class 317/5 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
48 class 317/8 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
96 class 317/6 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
36 class 317/7 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
204 class 321/3 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
60 class 321/3 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
44 class 321/4 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
15 class MK3 DVT coaching stock
1 class MK3 DVT coaching stock
28 class MK3 FO coaching stock
9 class MK3 RFM coaching stock
82 class MK3 TSO coaching stock
24 class 321 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
32 class 321 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
12 class 321 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
120 class 379 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)

 

[NXEA!]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/greater-anglia/invitationtotender.pdf

One interesting thing stands out to me from this. It's the first on the rolling stock list, 3 class 86s. Are we going to see 86s return on regular passenger work? I presume they would be for extra London to Norwich services. 16 DVTs are also listed, but only FOs for 14 sets (going on the current 2 each), so unless they are going to be short formed I don't know where the coaches would come from. Are there that many Mk3s still off lease? Where would the 86s come from aswell? Wouldn't trying to get some 90s off DBS be better for standardisation, afterall drivers would need retraining on 86s? I know many of DBSs off lease 90s are in poor state, but I doubt there are many decent 86s off lease.

Also interesting why 321s are split into 6 enteries. Ok there are /3s and /4s but the /3s are split into 2 batches and then there are another load just listed as 321s.

Oh and odd how 156s are called "commuter DMUs" wheras 153s are "inter-urban".

APPENDIX 1C: LIST OF ROLLING STOCK
3 class 86 locomotives
15 class 90 locomotives
5 class 153 DMU (inter urban DMU)
18 class 156 DMU (Commuter DMU)
24 class 170 DMU (inter urban DMU)
8 class 170 DMU (inter urban DMU)
244 class 315 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
20 class 322 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
84 class 360 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
60 class 317/5 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
48 class 317/8 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
96 class 317/6 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
36 class 317/7 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
204 class 321/3 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
60 class 321/3 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
44 class 321/4 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
15 class MK3 DVT coaching stock
1 class MK3 DVT coaching stock
28 class MK3 FO coaching stock
9 class MK3 RFM coaching stock
82 class MK3 TSO coaching stock
24 class 321 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
32 class 321 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
12 class 321 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)
120 class 379 EMU-O (EMU 25KV 20m)

The point about the 86's is interesting. I think they would have to go for 86's as rumour has it that DBS are very tight on serviceable 90's. Freightliner can't really spare any 90's either. But yet there are 4 86's in a serviceable condition 86101, 86259, and 86's 701 and 702 which lack any regular work. Don't quote me on this but I think 701 and 702 are 110mph capable, and I know that 101 definitely is as it has got Class 87 bogies. Anyway, even if they used 86's on services it wouldn't matter as the route doesn't go anywhere over 100 anyway. The only thing that could suffer is the acceleration, I don't think the 86's can accelerate as fast as 90's, which is something that is important for the Norwich services. As for the Mark 3's, again don't quote me on it, I'm pretty sure I counted 19 FO's and TSO's as being off-lease in my Platform 5 pocket book. That could make 2 extra sets with 8 coaches per set each, as well as a buffet. That leaves 3 which they could insert into the 4 8 carriage sets they've already got, and I'm sure NX could obtain one extra Mark 3 from DB or something.

 

[jopsuk]

what's with the split listing of the DVTs?

The splits of the 321s are a bit odd- the last three "batches" equate to 6, 8 and 3 units respectively- this makes up the 17 in total they've got from Silverlink/London Midland, is that the size of each "batch" they've received?

Edit: Also, thought the 322s were going to Northern? Or are they technically still on lease to to the greater Anglia franchise, but on sublease to Scotrail then to Northern?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Interestingly on the franchise map it lists 4 peak services from Norwich to Liverpool St. Perhaps these are what the additional hauled sets will be used for?

 

[captainbigun]

There aren't any 86s going spare. It's an error in the DfT paperwork. DBS chose not to sell any of the 12 90s on their tender list. It is unclear what will happen next, suffice to say that they can dispose of them however they see fit. There are enough 90s to service the contracts they have, specifically the sleepers. Beyond that there would have to be a long term deal with cash on the table to warrant returning any further examples to the working fleet.

 

[dk1]

Back to 86s?? Liked driving them but dont think i would like to suffer them 24/7 anymore.

Lets just take the plunge & order a new fleet of an AC 444 variative & be done with it.

 

[jopsuk]

Any new build stock orders won't happen until the Greater Anglia franchise AFTER this one- this is the "holding" franchise that there's been pre-qualification for (that Nat Ex weren't listed in)

 

[captainbigun]

Back to 86s?? Liked driving them but dont think i would like to suffer them 24/7 anymore.

Lets just take the plunge & order a new fleet of an AC 444 variative & be done with it.

Amen to that! The route needs units.

86s, suffer, how very dare you! I have to say there are some absolute knackers amongst the ex-Anglia examples, the ex-VT examples, generally seem to be better electrically if not in appearance.