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Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

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From forums this morning

@greateranglia @Delayed_Again GA going for the full house this week not one train journey has arrived on time and now this ones late #fail

My train has been cancelled for the third day running.

Mr Burles said this was not good enough on Weds.

The GA staff sitting in 1st class have all had their names emailed to Mr Burles as he requested.

Are these people fit for another 10 yrs?

Dave and Darandio will say yes.
 
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Dave1987

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And this is the retort I hate. Essentially due to the way this country works lots of people don't really have a choice but to work in London but cannot afford to live in London.

Yes there are other jobs outside London but if you are trying to maximise your career for your and your dependants greater good then they are not viable options.

One cannot build your life around a railway decision but that doesn't mean you can no longer have any thought s on its performance. If they run long distance services then they should be measured upon them.

You always have the choice to not work in London. Most do for the wages but don't want to pay London house prices. So therefore they choose to commute, and with that choice as with any long distance choice you run the risk of delays, be that by road or rail.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
From forums this morning

@greateranglia @Delayed_Again GA going for the full house this week not one train journey has arrived on time and now this ones late #fail

My train has been cancelled for the third day running.

Mr Burles said this was not good enough on Weds.

The GA staff sitting in 1st class have all had their names emailed to Mr Burles as he requested.

Are these people fit for another 10 yrs?

Dave and Darandio will say yes.

Your going after the staff as well now!

Would LOVE to see you in the control room of GEML, you'd be so out of your depth.
 

450.emu

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From forums this morning

@greateranglia @Delayed_Again GA going for the full house this week not one train journey has arrived on time and now this ones late #fail

My train has been cancelled for the third day running.

Mr Burles said this was not good enough on Weds.

The GA staff sitting in 1st class have all had their names emailed to Mr Burles as he requested.

Are these people fit for another 10 yrs?

Dave and Darandio will say yes.

It's not good but factor in things like the poor infrastructure (OHLE, signal failures and other things beyond the operator's control)... as for staff sitting in first class, it is their rail company. If it meant first class customers had nowhere to sit, then that's an issue. If it was a one off, then it's no big deal.

Whoever runs the franchise will have problems, even if the trains were brand new. I'm sure there's admin work in Chelmsford if the commute gets too much... you could take a chance on the A12 into London if you can't stand the train, you may find that even worse... then try and find parking nearby that is under £30 a day :roll:
 
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Thanks for your support Dave.

I could not as a solicitor afford to work for for GA control but wish who have to all the best there.

Obviously a GA non paying member of staff supercedes a paying customer.

Have a look at your morals young man.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And Dave

Do a course on Economics or perish in a low paid job for lifex.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Dave

Believe your Dad is a Railway man.

Explains a lot.
 

Darandio

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Dave and Darandio will say yes.

Of course I wouldn't, and show me once where I have defended AGA or said otherwise.

My problem is that this is all being directed at the wrong places and the wrong people, it's a waste of energy.
 

Wivenswold

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Wow, there seem to be two camps here.

1. AGA apologists. Mainly made up of true enthusiasts and staff but with a thin smattering of occassional travellers. They know how the railway works and are therefore more forgiving of the shortcomings on the GEML.

2. Commuters. A mostly bitter, stressed brigade of people who think that £5k per year (or whatever they pay) should buy them a top quality service that they rely on. Yes, they understand that things can go wrong from time to time but the daily mantra of "due to a train fault" is starting to give them the impression that AGA are hopelessly incompetent.

Group 1 think Group 2 have a vendetta against AGA, Group 2 think Group 1 are patronising and have their tongues firmly placed up AGA Management's rear pipe.

Truth is that Group 2 contains a far greater proportion of those things called Customers. They are the ones that the railway is for and they are right, AGA or more importantly, the GEML, is a shambles of a service. It matters not whether the train is 5 or 50 minutes late, 8 or 4 coaches instead of 12, dirty, badly ventilated, badly lit or has seats missing.

In the same way that I don't care how the engine of my car works, they don't care what it takes to run a train service, nor should they. They merely have a reasonable expectation that the timetable is a document of fact and not a rarely achievable aspiration.



I should add that I have been in both camps. I understand Commuters' anger and having worked on the railway for 8 years I'm also aware of how bl**dy-minded and blinkered railway staff can be. Though some do a fantastic job and put the customers first, most, in my experience, don't.
 
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Dave1987

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AngliaRailUser - Of course a fair paying passenger take priority over any staff for seats and I would be very surprised if a member of staff openly refused to stand if there are no seats left for passengers but clearly your experience is different.

Wivenswold - Yes I would agree that GEML is a mess at the moment. Is that the all fault of AGA? No. Network Rail have a massive backlog of work that needs doing but don't seem to be able to get the possessions to get the work done. I heard a Network Rail saying that if people were prepared to put up with weekend engineering works then they could have all the overheads renewed and the track replaced in around a year. If people want trains to run on weekends with no bus replacements it will take at least 5 years to complete all the work needed. GEML is a mess with temporary speed restrictions all over the place, numerous level crossings that need to be closed to speed up the line. But remember the whole "Berlin Wall" saga with the level crossings at Stowmarket. Locals don't want the crossings to close even though Network Rail have stated that they would need to close them to even think about raising the line speed. I remember a quote from a Stowmarket resident saying "We want to see improvements on the trains as long as it doesn't affect us", and that's what the railway is up against. AGA are by no means perfect but they are being blamed for a huge amount that isn't their fault. The modern railway is an incredibly technical beast, that's how you can have a 12 car train weighing 700 tonnes with around 1000 people on board safely do 100mph. By the nature of how technical it is it goes wrong at times. With GEML being so congested it seems to go wrong more often than it should as points get a hammering day in day out. No doubt none of what I have said will make a difference but hey I've tried end of.....

Ow and just to put something to bed, I'm not a railway enthusiast at all. My passion is for aircraft and flying. I just hate to see money being wasted by scrapping machines that are not life expired. It doesn't happen in the airline industry, aircraft are generally flown until they reach their airframe hours limit, they are rarely scrapped before.
 
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Wivenswold

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AngliaRailUser - Of course a fair paying passenger take priority over any staff for seats and I would be very surprised if a member of staff openly refused to stand if there are no seats left for passengers but clearly your experience is different.

Wivenswold - Yes I would agree that GEML is a mess at the moment. Is that the all fault of AGA? No. Network Rail have a massive backlog of work that needs doing but don't seem to be able to get the possessions to get the work done. I heard a Network Rail saying that if people were prepared to put up with weekend engineering works then they could have all the overheads renewed and the track replaced in around a year. If people want trains to run on weekends with no bus replacements it will take at least 5 years to complete all the work needed. GEML is a mess with temporary speed restrictions all over the place, numerous level crossings that need to be closed to speed up the line. But remember the whole "Berlin Wall" saga with the level crossings at Stowmarket. Locals don't want the crossings to close even though Network Rail have stated that they would need to close them to even think about raising the line speed. I remember a quote from a Stowmarket resident saying "We want to see improvements on the trains as long as it doesn't affect us", and that's what the railway is up against. AGA are by no means perfect but they are being blamed for a huge amount that isn't their fault. The modern railway is an incredibly technical beast, that's how you can have a 12 car train weighing 700 tonnes with around 1000 people on board safely do 100mph. By the nature of how technical it is it goes wrong at times. With GEML being so congested it seems to go wrong more often than it should as points get a hammering day in day out. No doubt none of what I have said will make a difference but hey I've tried end of.....

There's nothing to disagree with there Dave. Most of it isn't AGA's fault. But who do disenfranchised passengers complain to? You basically need a personal contact at NR or the DfT to get anything more than a basic response. My local MP, Bernard "Badger" Jenkin doesn't give a stuff because he doesn't even live in our constituency. The transport minister will refer you to the DfT who will refer you to Passenger Focus who are hopelessly toothless. It is all set-up to deflect responsibility.

So anger is understandably vented at AGA by people who don't understand the system. And why should they care that the route is at capacity when there's seemingly billions to throw at HS2? AGA Luxemburg take their money so that's who they blame.

I don't disagree that some of the complaints are amazingly ill-informed but no-one put a gun to AGA's collective head and told them to run a railway. So I don't have much sympathy for them as a company.
 

Dave1987

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There's nothing to disagree with there Dave. Most of it isn't AGA's fault. But who do disenfranchised passengers complain to? You basically need a personal contact at NR or the DfT to get anything more than a basic response. My local MP, Bernard "Badger" Jenkin doesn't give a stuff because he doesn't even live in our constituency. The transport minister will refer you to the DfT who will refer you to Passenger Focus who are hopelessly toothless. It is all set-up to deflect responsibility.

So anger is understandably vented at AGA by people who don't understand the system. And why should they care that the route is at capacity when there's seemingly billions to throw at HS2? AGA Luxemburg take their money so that's who they blame.

I don't disagree that some of the complaints are amazingly ill-informed but no-one put a gun to AGA's collective head and told them to run a railway. So I don't have much sympathy for them as a company.

HS2 is vital for so many reasons one of the biggest being capacity. One the WCML there is literally path left that's unallocated. Yes you could throw even more money at the WCML but that would involve demolishing housing estates to six track it or install ERTMS signalling to eek out a bit more capacity BUT all of that would cost around the same as HS2 and provide far less capacity than HS2 would etc etc. If HS2 is built then there would be little reason for expanding Heathrow as people could get from Birmingham Intl to London quickly.

I can totally understand why people are so frustrated. But if people want a 7 day a week service then its probably going to take years and years to sort out GEML. And it doesn't matter whether a new operator comes in or £2bn is spent on an entire new fleet the infrastructure will still be in the same state.
 
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Our local MP is Priti Patel.

Far more interested in making cash promiting tobacco than serving constituents.

No chance there then.

We need a rallying point and, for better or worse, this is twitter to vent anger.

Ok I earn a good salary. I would not get this without working in central London.

I cannot drive to central London with any ease. Parking is scant. The price is irrelevant to me I'm lucky.

Many aren't.

Hence my low paid comment to Dave whose credibility has increased with his last pist.

There are many on here who seem to think whatever crap is thrown at them by Abellio is acceptable.

Even Mr Burles recognises it isn't

We need to move together to improve amything. Blinkered biased views will not work.

These people are incompetent

Took the contract on knowing that

Can do nothing to change things

Are dependant on absurd Government tendered contracts with little KPI or SLA of worth.

Nationalisation is the way forward but not under this Govt

The minister Claire Whatsherface offers pie in sky offers of new trains by 2018. It wont happen.

Tarted up joke 321s like the back of Ilford depot 321448 and the farcial refurb of Mk3s like 12013 with sockets that dont work and doors that constantly slam are the Abellio and, god forbid Stagecoach method.

RIP rail services in East Anglia.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Should have said "post"

Bloody mobiles
 

Dave1987

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AngliaRailUser - I totally agree with about Priti Patel now she has her Govt job she is more interested in her own career than her constituents and totally fits the whole MP's only in it for themselves mantra. And I agree that driving into central London and parking is not a good option but to say you have no choice but to travel by train is wrong, you travel by train for convenience and speed compared to other forms of travel. AGA were given a short term minimum cost franchise by the DFT and it would have been the same whoever had taken over from NXEA. Would love to know how you think nationalising the line would make thinks miraculously brilliant again?
 

Wivenswold

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HS2 is vital for so many reasons one of the biggest being capacity. One the WCML there is literally path left that's unallocated. Yes you could throw even more money at the WCML but that would involve demolishing housing estates to six track it or install ERTMS signalling to eek out a bit more capacity BUT all of that would cost around the same as HS2 and provide far less capacity than HS2 would etc etc. If HS2 is built then there would be little reason for expanding Heathrow as people could get from Birmingham Intl to London quickly.

I can totally understand why people are so frustrated. But if people want a 7 day a week service then its probably going to take years and years to sort out GEML. And it doesn't matter whether a new operator comes in or £2bn is spent on an entire new fleet the infrastructure will still be in the same state.

The HS2 debate is perhaps for another day. Clearly GEML needs huge investment. One thing I don't agree with is that there is an assumption that peak travel will grow with the size of the population. The DfT confirmed to me that they didn't make allowances for changes to travel habits brought about by technological advances such as remote working and video conferencing. The DfT's figures used to justify HS2 are highly flawed.

I personally think the GEML is as important, if not more so, than a high speed link between London and Birmingham. East Anglia is a huge commuter belt which is essential for the long-term well-being of the all important financial sector. Most people in my office in the City live either in London or Essex for example.
 

jon0844

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I don't disagree that some of the complaints are amazingly ill-informed but no-one put a gun to AGA's collective head and told them to run a railway. So I don't have much sympathy for them as a company.

Fair enough, but the logical answer is that nobody bids to run it. Given there are so many problems, no private company should get involved and leave it up to the DfT to sort. Even DOR is unlikely to have the ability to do anything different.

So, really, AGA is just a scapegoat and all the serial moaners are doing is blaming whoever is in charge. If Abellio goes, the hatred will move to the new operator - and the usefulness of these pressure groups (or user groups, commuter associations or whatever they'd like to be called) is effectively nil.

I am amazed that people would get the time (some FOUR hours?) to speak to Abellio executives and then go straight back to slagging them off at any opportunity and now seeking to grass up staff who, as far as I can see, could sit in first class if they so wished - as long as they give up their seats to anyone else that needs it (if first class was full).

I've seen staff on FCC give up seats, so it does happen. Surely having them in first class also means that, given FC is often near empty, it leaves more space in standard. Network Rail staff can be seen in first class sometimes (likely not managers given their clothing) and so can the police, and what's the problem?

I'm far more annoyed when standard class ticket holders upgrade themselves, or indeed people sit in first with no ticket at all. Yet I'm sure that many people would claim it's okay to sit in first if standard is remotely looking busy, and upgrade themselves out of principle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would love to know how you think nationalising the line would make thinks miraculously brilliant again?

Me too. Given the main problems stem from the only bit of the railway you could class as nationalised!

Seems to me the best plan would be to do weekend closures to get the work done quickly, force through level crossing closures and get things done - and if anyone objects and puts a spanner in the works to stop the much needed work being done, direct commuters to those people instead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The DfT confirmed to me that they didn't make allowances for changes to travel habits brought about by technological advances such as remote working and video conferencing. The DfT's figures used to justify HS2 are highly flawed.

Don't worry, people will still be travelling just as much in the future as they do now. Some companies use video conferencing for international meetings, but most prefer face to face meetings because even now we can do 4K video streams if we so want, with audio quality that will make you swear you're all in the same room, it's just not the same.

Maybe we'll have VR meetings, where you can turn your head to see the person next to you, and be able to look at body language and have private conversations (all things you might do in a meeting) but I doubt that's going to go anywhere beyond gaming and, well, let's face it - porn.

We have high speed broadband now, and video calling has been around for years, and people still travel. In fact, they can probably travel more than they did before, so they can have conference calls (video or audio only) when on the move, or at other locations (e.g. sites).

I've worked in tech since the 1990s and I've given up writing about video conferencing as most people hate it. In my last job (working from home), we had regular Skype chats and it was never as good as face to face meetings and I can't imagine it ever will be.
 

LAX54

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Not all AGA,,but had a cracking trip yesterday Colchester to Gatwick... 1230 from Colchester, into Liverpool Street bang on time, Central Line and Victoria Line all brill, albeit crowded, arrived Victoria 1 min until the 1344 left, arrived Gatwick at 1415.... from Colchester to Gatwick via London 1 hour 45 mins, could not do that by car ! :)
 
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Thanks Mr Morris

I agree with you on most points!

The ones I don't are Mr Burles did not waste his time. He is in the self preservation market with an unsure future and a lot of media scrutiny at present so Weds was a PR exercise he did well.

Improvements are beyond Abellio's scope. I know that, you know that. We did not tender and win the contract knowing that.

The repository of discontent is Twitter. How anyone can expect any premium supplier to run a service with sub standard stock plus infrastructure issues is impossible to compute. It can't and isn't being done.

The problem is Mr Morris, we are paying for this incompetenve on behalf of Abellio, Government and DfT.

Patel and her like are now elected and can get tobacco founding from BAT for another five years and to hell with the electorate.

She has a cast iron seat so profits forever.

We need a voice together in this not disparate messages and stupid pro rail operator at any expense garbage.

Time for change. Even Mr Burles and Mr Scholfield know cobtinuity is unsustainable.
 

jopsuk

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Well, the next indication as to what can and might change is the publication of the ITT later this year. I'm not sure there's that much beyond "make do and mend"- ie the status quo- that you can expect before then- regardless of how justified your complaints are. There's more could be done... but it won't.

(Group 3: realists, not apologising for AGA but not expecting that complaints will truly be listened to yet alone acted upon to achieve real change)
 

Simon11

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Big News: Boss Jeff Hamilton of NS-daughter Abellio is fired because of fraud in the procurement of public administration
 

Wivenswold

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@Swills - AGA off-peak are generally okay. That's not when the line is at capacity. My train this morning slowed down at Witham and didn't make line speed again until Brentwood Bank.

I think passengers should be complaining but the campaign needs a proper focus. It should be applying pressure on AGA and raising awareness of the end-user experience. But it should be working with AGA, local MPs and business groups to force the DfT/The Government into looking at ways of improving the service in the long term. A consultation was undertaken a year or so ago, it would be interesting to know whether it is still being looked at.

Nationalisation won't cure GEML ills, a change of operator won't either. If double decker trains or quadruple lines are out of the question (and let's face it, they are) then a package of changes might be the answer. Two-tier peak fares encouraging a better spread of commuters around the peaks. Standee class on peak trains (again incentivised within the fare structure). At the costlier end of measures could be the electrification of the Ipswich to Peterborough and Norwich to Cambridge corridors allowing freight to avoid the GEML in most cases and provide an alternative electric London to Norwich corridor. I'm sure higher capacity EMUs for the Norwich service are already in the plans of course.

I'm sure some of you have even better ideas than that. While it will only nibble away at the bigger issue, it may provide some breathing space for the GEML.
 

Wivenswold

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What I will say against Aga is that there needs to be an immediate DfT investigation into train faults. It's every day now and it's not good enough.
 

Wivenswold

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I picked a bad night to defend Aga.train faults a plenty and this practice of cancelling part journeys but not allowing passengers time to get to where the train is starting from is statistical fraud.

Not that Abellio have previous with fraud. Obviously.
 

450.emu

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Wivenswold - spot on.

It needs a focus.
A Ford Focus would do, so you don't have to sit on AGA's dislodged, filthy seats and travel to work in comfort:D

It is years of neglect, things have moved on since the first time the GEML was electrified, they should add an additional track between Chelmsford - Norwich, so express and semi-fasts can pass slows / freight. As for the level crossing issue, build bridges across the railway. Simples.

ROSCO is a Rolling Stock company i.e Porterbrook, where companies lease trains like 317's from.

Without improvement to the infrastructure, the problems will just continue, and passengers will hate the next company that comes along, as TfL may be discovering with West Anglia :roll:
 

george.h

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Rather BAU this evening - Business As Usual....

I was planning to get an earlier train this evening, the 16:52 (Harwich) from Stratford but no - cancelled. As was the one I would normally get, the 17:16 (Harwich). Luckily (for me), the 16:39 (Ipswich) was late (just missed that) but it meant I did catch the 16:42 (Braintree).

All of these problems down to AGA (train crew member not available and train faults).

I can understand starting a train from further along it's route IF the train is already there and it eases line congestion significantly for other trains. However, many might suspect it is less to do with that and more to do with, shall we say, "creative accounting" with the stats.....

I don't think electrification of certain routes would make a difference for freight as every freight train I've seen pass through Chelmsford (usually running late) has been diesel hauled.

I should add another ROSCO is (or was) Angel Trains, owned by a certain RBS (who I used to work for - terrible place it was - before it Fred the Shred destroyed it)
 
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jon0844

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Hasn't it been said before that trains that cancel stops count as cancelled? Isn't it therefore an operational issue, and not a scam?
 

ginger

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I see its all going well on one of the most controversial and popular feeds on the forum!
 

george.h

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Hasn't it been said before that trains that cancel stops count as cancelled? Isn't it therefore an operational issue, and not a scam?

I stand corrected (or more accurately sit). My excuse is I'm a new member so have a bit of catching up to do. I appreciate your wisdom!:)
 

dk1

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I would love to think things would change, but after 30yrs working on BR, Anglia, NXEA & now this lot, nothing really does. People say what they think others like to hear is what I have found. Aim for the lower expectation & you tend to get less disappointed in life. Transport budgets just been cut again too :roll:
 
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