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Greater Anglia Class 321/4 Refresh
- Thread starter SprinterMan
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I suspect a blue peter style makeover using sticky back plastic and some papier mache.
On the subject of GA trains, has anyone seen the state of the A/C vents on the 360's ?. I cannot imagine they have been cleaned since the units were brought into service.
Having travelled on a 360 this evening I looked up.....you are right they are very very dirty....thats needs sorting out as it blows dirt all around the carriage!
Oh to have aircon in the 321s.......bump....then woke up!
Won't the dirty parts be for the air extractor units, rather than the vents to blow air in? In which case they won't be blowing any dirt around the carriage.
They do of course need cleaning, as it will impact on the performance of the aircon.
And the 321s aren't likely to ever get aircon, unless they get the same massive overhaul that is spoken about for the 319s one day. Let's hope nobody opts to fit aircon and leave windows in place that can be opened!!
iphone76
Member
The answer is they are keeping the 1st class seats in the standard class area. Another picture here.
http://m.flickr.com/photos/68513264@N03/7110635667/lightbox/
http://m.flickr.com/photos/68513264@N03/7110635667/lightbox/
Only those in the next series of Ashes to Ashes or Life on Mars.
In most of the units where there were / are first class seats in the standard section, at least one of the group of 4 seats had / has a collapsed seat base.
I couldn't see that from the photos.
However, the seats on the 317/1s in first class have also begun to fall to bits. They should probably be replaced but they're obviously no longer in production and I can imagine the negative comments if they fitted a new seat design (along the lines of them not putting them throughout).
However, the seats on the 317/1s in first class have also begun to fall to bits. They should probably be replaced but they're obviously no longer in production and I can imagine the negative comments if they fitted a new seat design (along the lines of them not putting them throughout).
87015
Established Member
Ripping the tables out seems a bit unnecessary.
how can it be "brand new"? yes it looks good but it is still the same small, cramped, uncomfortable seats that are 3 inches from the ground and built only for pygmies!
when tye do a PROPER refurb and put in proper adult seats, aircon and decent toilets that work then I will be the first to start praising whowever on the rooftops! but I fear that day will never come.....
some units now coming up to 25 yrs of age and judging by the numerous doors faults and failures at the moment they are heading for the scrapheap.....that is of course despite the recent C6 overhaul where these issues where supposed to be dealt with! Age is catching up with them fast.....
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er not really! the seating booths are cramped enough.....tables never used by commuters.....just make the booths even smaller and more cramped!
Erm, I said they could be seen by some as looking brand new. You've actually replied to someone who disagreed with me!
That day may very well come when the trains are cascaded somewhere else, but not for this project which was just a refresh. Completely gutting out the interior and placing new seats (no doubt with new fixings needed in the floor), aircon, new windows that don't open and new accessible toilets would cost a fortune - and take ages. It wasn't planned and I doubt GA could have done this even if it wanted to.
I think there's plenty of life left in the 317/319/320/321 family. Don't get me wrong, I love shiny new things, but I doubt they're going to a scrapheap just yet. Door problems can be addressed, as can other mechanical problems. Whether GA would do this, or the next franchisee remains to be seen - but they CAN be fixed and I'm sure the ROSCO would seek to get the work done once they come off lease.
Even the 313s are likely to last a lot longer than ever expected. There was a time we could build things to last, which is more than I could say about the modern stock that is replacing them. The 379s look amazing, but will they last 25-40 years? If they do, I bet they'll need an awful lot of work.
For one thing, not having aircon and fancy computer systems to monitor everything will probably make the older trains cheaper to keep in service than the new trains will.
SprinterMan
Established Member
http://youtube.ng/watch?v=BBF8YJr3CiQ
321332 still has green seats as of 2011?
Have I misunderstood? :P
321332 had a trial refurbishment in the first carriage only - National Express then reverted it to the green interior in 2011 when they cancelled the refurbishment project.
SprinterMan
Established Member
So NXEA refurbished one vehicle of 321332, then un-refurbished it again when they realised they didn't want to spend the money. Oh my god, what a hateful company, how did they get away with that?
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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Bless! but alas no......it was the trial that NX (that wonderful man mr chivers) was suppose to do across the entire 321 fleet......but they cancelled it (quietly after they almost went bankrupt - covered before numerous times!)
lets keep this simple.....ALL other commuter lines into london...with professional TOCs......provide their customers (those horrible people like me who pay thru the nose for tickets) with a decent train interior EXCEPT on the GE mainline! FACT!
I hear it every day on the train so why not press, pressure and rant when we have to suffer APPALLING trains compared to everyone else!!!
You simply cannot defend the NEGLECT that the DFT and NX have inflicted on us for years....whilst paying thru the nose!
this small victory should be celebrated (albeit 3 yrs late)
But you're the one slagging off GA all the time! Are you actually beginning to accept they might not be doing everything wrong? And that the DfT most likely made GA do the work?
It may be late, but once the trains are done I think most people will forget. It's rather like being cooped up on a plane in economy for 14 hours.. it's hell, but the minute you step off the plane, it's over.
It may be late, but once the trains are done I think most people will forget. It's rather like being cooped up on a plane in economy for 14 hours.. it's hell, but the minute you step off the plane, it's over.
87015
Established Member
Not that it makes any difference to the passenger, but the refresh was always tied into the NX extension which was withdrawn so NX didn't "cancel" it - would have been completed on the ex-BY sets and well underway on the rest by now if they had got the extension. 332 was a trial, just that, and was mandated to be returned to previous condition by the ROSCO for handback.
The whole system is rubbish and it makes no real difference who the owning group is as they are only after the same thing - profit.
I will be the first to praise whoever runs it to the heavens if and when they get things right and passengers get what they pay for......the East of England has been neglected by Government and TOCs for too long.
As for GA, they desreve critisism (like any TOC would) if they made the kind of start that they made! To be fair, the management have acknowledged and apologised for the fact they have not made a good start.....let's see if it gets any better!
Are those FC seats the same as used to be on class 442s by any chance? They look the same.
All a bit embarrasing for NX if passenegrs notice an immediate difference in standards (for the better) upon their departure.
To be fair to NX they have invested heavily in new trains before at least according to wikipedia and Midland Mainline won TOC of the year 2006. I think National Express felt they were treated unfairly by the government after the East Coast disaster. The launch of the corporate colours was presumably set to bring about great changes with the class 321s and 317s heading for refurbishment.
Some may argue the refurbishments carried out under 'one' were not brilliant yet I'm sure people would be moaning if they ripped out those seats on the mk3s- though I admit the lightning could be brighter. The class 317/5 refurbishment was to the same standard as FCC carried out on their 317s and the class 315 job was pretty good I thought. There may not have been a compelling business case to address the low backed seating given crossrail and the size of the fleet.
All a bit embarrasing for NX if passenegrs notice an immediate difference in standards (for the better) upon their departure.
To be fair to NX they have invested heavily in new trains before at least according to wikipedia and Midland Mainline won TOC of the year 2006. I think National Express felt they were treated unfairly by the government after the East Coast disaster. The launch of the corporate colours was presumably set to bring about great changes with the class 321s and 317s heading for refurbishment.
Some may argue the refurbishments carried out under 'one' were not brilliant yet I'm sure people would be moaning if they ripped out those seats on the mk3s- though I admit the lightning could be brighter. The class 317/5 refurbishment was to the same standard as FCC carried out on their 317s and the class 315 job was pretty good I thought. There may not have been a compelling business case to address the low backed seating given crossrail and the size of the fleet.
zn1
Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2011
- Messages
- 435
class 321/4 are now due their CODE1 full life overhaul now being 20 years old
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code 1 overhaul - full life overhaul - essentially the interior is ripped out to bare shell and all repairs are carried out to bring the vehicle back to as new condition, the work can and should include rewiring as required, reflooring, retrim of interior, rebuild of interior, repaint as standard to livery as requried by the customer- in this case the ROSCO acting on behalf of the TOC.
for those who want a reminder of what a CODE 1 should be - please cast your mind back to the heady days of network southeast -class 421 rebuilds when the cigs went in to ZG1 with a full MBS and came out with a substantially smaller brake with augmented passenger compartment.
Go back even further when AM10's had a corridor fitted throughout, pa system fitted.
and going back even further class 411 when the DMBS was converted to a DMS and the brake van was transferred to the centre of the vehicle,
as i see it Code 1 should be financed the rosco to bring the unit/vehicle back to the base level it was built at. so Class 321 would be rebuilt to its basic standard as built, any extra work should be financed by the toc leasing the unit/vehicle, if the TOC cannot afford the extra work, then the unit would be rebuilt/trimmed to the basic standard it was built to at the last major overhaul
purely my opinioins
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
code 1 overhaul - full life overhaul - essentially the interior is ripped out to bare shell and all repairs are carried out to bring the vehicle back to as new condition, the work can and should include rewiring as required, reflooring, retrim of interior, rebuild of interior, repaint as standard to livery as requried by the customer- in this case the ROSCO acting on behalf of the TOC.
for those who want a reminder of what a CODE 1 should be - please cast your mind back to the heady days of network southeast -class 421 rebuilds when the cigs went in to ZG1 with a full MBS and came out with a substantially smaller brake with augmented passenger compartment.
Go back even further when AM10's had a corridor fitted throughout, pa system fitted.
and going back even further class 411 when the DMBS was converted to a DMS and the brake van was transferred to the centre of the vehicle,
as i see it Code 1 should be financed the rosco to bring the unit/vehicle back to the base level it was built at. so Class 321 would be rebuilt to its basic standard as built, any extra work should be financed by the toc leasing the unit/vehicle, if the TOC cannot afford the extra work, then the unit would be rebuilt/trimmed to the basic standard it was built to at the last major overhaul
purely my opinioins
cj_1985
Member
so do you think that NX should have just been treated the same as they had been in the past (Pre NXEC)...
personally i think they are lucky to have been allowed to retain any involvement in the UK Rail industry, especially after seeing Connex stripped of their UK franchise and "sent packing"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55223176@N03/7015215451/in/photostream
NXEA met its targets... anyway NX is back in the bidding process now
NXEA met its targets... anyway NX is back in the bidding process now
well in that case the ENTIRE 321 fleet is now overdue including the 321/3s (where the interiors are fast approaching the disgraceful state of the 321/4s)
Built 88-90 so the earlier 3s are now 25 yrs old, yet no Code 1 overhaul?
Why have the insides not been ripped out and the interior rebuilt as new before then? or is this penny pinching / profiteering? neglect?
In any event.....in Rail Magazine today Ruud has says the rolling stock is Ok.....thus betraying his customers completely.....
Ruud....the rolling stock is a shambles!!!!!
yes....but this involves spending money on them! something that the Dft and successive TOCs have flatly refused to do!
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