Great Western Railway Future Stock

[leomartin125]

Just wondering what future EMU stock GWR are going to be using with the completion of the electrification project (if ever now) and where the 166's will be going once they get displaced by whatever?

Thanks,
Leo

 

[Domh245]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_(train_operating_company)#Future_fleet

365s and (new build) 387s. Supplemented by 345s on crossrail services to reading

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Just wondering what future EMU stock GWR are going to be using with the completion of the electrification project (if ever now) and where the 166's will be going once they get displaced by whatever?

Thanks,
Leo

It's discussed in enormous detail here, just search, but to help you on your way, the GWML route will make use of Class 365 EMU stock, Class 387 EMU stock, Class 800/Class 801 bi-mode and EMU stock, CrossRail Class 345 stock will operate on the GWML too, as will Class 332 units as per today.

 

[swt_passenger]

29 x 387/1s are coming from GTR (currently used on Thameslink)
8 x 387/1s are new build
21 x 365s are coming from GTR (currently used on Great Northern)

!65/166 are moving within GW to the Bristol area routes.

 

[oxoneil]

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2015/03/24-derby-to-build-new-trains.html

Info here.

 

[neonison]

Due to gauging issues 165 & 166 are limited to ex GWR territory and Chiltern.

 

[fgwrich]

Due to gauging issues 165 & 166 are limited to ex GWR territory and Chiltern.

But are they though? As this subject keeps coming around and around, I'm sure that this has just been proven as a myth - indeed they often travel to Wolverton and Ilford, neither or which are ex GWR areas at all.

 

[455driver]

But are they though? As this subject keeps coming around and around, I'm sure that this has just been proven as a myth - indeed they often travel to Wolverton and Ilford, neither or which are ex GWR areas at all.

When they go to Ilford and Wolverton don't the step boards have to removed so they fit within the loading gauge?

 

[fgwrich]

When they go to Ilford and Wolverton don't the step boards have to removed so they fit within the loading gauge?

Indeed they do have them removed - I forgot to type that bit! But, neither areas are ex GWR, and of course they were built in York and would have come down by Rail.

Of course Gatwick, or Eastleigh Works aren't GWR territories either - of which 165/166s have visited.

 

[Class 170101]

Ruuning to / from Ilford the 165s / 166s are only permitted to use certain lines to get them there.

 

[swt_passenger]

Due to gauging issues 165 & 166 are limited to ex GWR territory and Chiltern.

Not a real problem because the routes they are to use them on, such as Portsmouth to Cardiff, will also be gauge cleared to suit.

 

[leomartin125]

Where will the GWR HST's go once the line is electrified?

 

[JN114]

Where will the GWR HST's go once the line is electrified?

Some are going to Scotrail, the rest will be scrapped/disposed of

 

[leomartin125]

I see. One last thing, what is the difference between the IEP 800/801 and the Hitachi AT300?

 

[Domh245]

I see. One last thing, what is the difference between the IEP 800/801 and the Hitachi AT300?

Mainly, the contract. The IEP 800s and 801s were procured through the government and are being paid for per service diagram. They will operate to Bristol and Wales. The AT300s were procured separately by First group to operate services to the South West of England. They are being supplied conventionally, ie with a ROSCO. They may also be a different colour

 

[class26]

I see. One last thing, what is the difference between the IEP 800/801 and the Hitachi AT300?

The AT 300`s also will have uprated diesel engines as they will spend much more time working off diesel (after the Bristol . Cardiff / Swansea electrification is complete).

 

[Rapidash]

Jwhere the 166's will be going once they get displaced by whatever?

Thanks,
Leo

As far as I can make out....

The Turbos are displaced from the Thames Valleys, which then displaces the bulk of Sprinters/158's from the Bristol area, which in turn displaces the Pacers, 150/1/3's from Devon and Cornwall, which in turn will probably be sent to the Welsh and the North, as they haven't suffered enough.

I may have made that last bit up.

 

[ainsworth74]

The AT 300's also will have uprated diesel engines as they will spend much more time working off diesel (after the Bristol . Cardiff / Swansea electrification is complete).

I recall that they have larger fuel tanks as well?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I recall that they have larger fuel tanks as well?

And they should have proper catering facilities on-board, equivalent to the East Coast IEP fleet (IEP TTS Level 1).

There were mutterings (as there always are) about IEP also being fitted with larger fuel tanks for commonality, which would allow Agility Trains to hire them to FGW outside the IEP train provision agreement for additional services to the West Country.

It's all terribly complicated. Hitachi will be maintaining the AT300 sets for Eversholt/FGW, but as they're not on a pay per diagram basis, they risk IEP maintenance taking priority, so there needs to be a balancing mechanism which penalises Hitachi for non availability of AT300 sets and deals with the costs involved in hiring in IEP unit(s). This then gets more complex as Agility Trains will need to hire in AT300 units from FGW to provide IEP diagrams in the event an IEP set is unavailable.

I should retrain as a lawyer or one of those blokes who sells enormous adding machines, there's a killing to be made in the next 27.5 years with this farce.

 

[Class 170101]

It's all terribly complicated. Hitachi will be maintaining the AT300 sets for Eversholt/FGW, but as they're not on a pay per diagram basis, they risk IEP maintenance taking priority, so there needs to be a balancing mechanism which penalises Hitachi for non availability of AT300 sets and deals with the costs involved in hiring in IEP unit(s). This then gets more complex as Agility Trains will need to hire in AT300 units from FGW to provide IEP diagrams in the event an IEP set is unavailable.

AT300s - A job for Laira then perhaps? I understand IEP is not being maintained there so should not affect availability and consequently IEP maintenance not take priority at said location.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

AT300s - A job for Laira then perhaps? I understand IEP is not being maintained there so should not affect availability and consequently IEP maintenance not take priority at said location.

AT300 isn't planned to have heavy maintenance there either. The current plans are for a reduction in workload in the order of 60%, with AT300 light maintenance on site but nothing major.

IEP shouldn't be working to Plymouth on anything like a regular basis.

 

[Class 170101]

AT300 isn't planned to have heavy maintenance there either. The current plans are for a reduction in workload in the order of 60%, with AT300 light maintenance on site but nothing major.

IEP shouldn't be working to Plymouth on anything like a regular basis.

Please remind me where the AT300 base will be - I've forgotten.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Please remind me where the AT300 base will be - I've forgotten.

North Pole is planned as the mothership, Laira and Long Rock will be servicing depots - light maintenance etc. St Philips Marsh might do a little servicing but they're intended to be the centre for the additional Turbo stock moving West, so if they do anything, it's likely to be fuelling and toilet emptying.

 

[Class 170101]

North Pole is planned as the mothership, Laira and Long Rock will be servicing depots - light maintenance etc. St Philips Marsh might do a little servicing but they're intended to be the centre for the additional Turbo stock moving West, so if they do anything, it's likely to be fuelling and toilet emptying.

There is also Stoke Gifford near Bristol.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

There is also Stoke Gifford near Bristol.

There is, and there's also Swansea Maliphant which would be used if an AT300 set is used on a London to Swansea service.

 

[swt_passenger]

The earlier question about the difference between 800/801 and AT300 is a question of detail only, and IMHO there is some unnecessary confusion because 800/801 are GB stock class numbers, and AT300 is a Hitachi model range number.

The MUs that are often referred to as IEPs are also derived from the AT300 range, and they have classes 800/801.

The MUs that are usually referred to as AT300s are from the same model range, and apparently the GW order has a GB class of 802.

There is every possibility that future AT300s will have different numbers in the 8nn number range.

IMHO the comparison question should be about 800/801 vs 802...

 

[BestWestern]

Where will the GWR HST's go once the line is electrified?

This afternoon a 2+4 set (43004 & 43063), ran Laira to Laira via Cardiff. Last saturday the same was operated with a 2+5. The GWR HSTs may not be surplus when IEP arrives.

 

[Class 170101]

This afternoon a 2+4 set (43004 & 43063), ran Laira to Laira via Cardiff. Last saturday the same was operated with a 2+5. The GWR HSTs may not be surplus when IEP arrives.

Scotrail test train? If not then what was the purpose of the trips?

 

[455driver]

Scotrail test train? If not then what was the purpose of the trips?

Nope!
GWR test train, just like last weeks.

 

[fgwrich]

This afternoon a 2+4 set (43004 & 43063), ran Laira to Laira via Cardiff. Last saturday the same was operated with a 2+5. The GWR HSTs may not be surplus when IEP arrives.

Timing Runs for Abellio ScotRail apparently. However, I've heard that FGW/GWR are also taking these timing runs into account, and with the GW cascade in crisis, the HST may remain for a little longer shall we say.

Ah, just seen 455Drivers post above which contradicts my info a little. Either say, It's a timing run for shortened HSTs in 4 & 5 car formation.